[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Misinformation ........begets propaganda........begets dictatorship!

I fail to see any difference between intentional misinformation and propaganda. Well, that is not true, sometimes propaganda is true.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by blueash

Scientific literacy it useful if you are going to cite something.. Please look again at the chart which led you to conclude that "the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population"

The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population.

Do the math. Unvaccinated whites are 25% of the US population. Now tell me again how "the majority of the unvaccinated are in the black population." The title of this thread is Who are the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks?

Using the KFF data and a population of 333 million in the US there are about 83 million unvaccinated whites and 25 million unvaccinated Blacks. Keep in mind that the KFF data is NOT age adjusted. They simply looked at total numbers. As it is well known that the average age of both Black and Hispanic Americans is lower than whites because of life expectancy and birth rates, it is worth adding that far fewer people of color have qualified to be vaccinated.

The median age for whites per Pew analysis of census data in 2018 was 44. The median is the age where half the people are older and half younger. The median for Blacks is 34 and Hispanics is 30. Far more whites have been eligible for vaccination for longer periods as the age criteria have liberalized.

Again, I will point out that the best predictor of being a naughty refusenik is not ethnicity.

All he had to do was appeal to his cult supporters. Get the jab in front of the cameras and make a big splash like all of our other living ex-presidents did with their wives. All he had to do was be a proponent of the vaccine effort. He did none of that. So, we have a huge group (of basically young white Republican men) who refuse the get the vaccine as a political statement. Just peachy!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by blueash

You are wrong. There is no adjustment for political party in any racial or ethnic group. Read what I wrote again, and do the math yourself. I made absolutely zero comment about the political party of the vaccine refusers in the post you quoted. If you are interested in how political party alters vaccine acceptance, there is data available. I did link to a report examining vaccine refusers. It is not "my poll", it is not a poll at all. "An ongoing research project tracking the public’s attitudes and experiences with COVID-19 vaccinations."

For further edification, if you are interested and capable, I'd recommend reading another report from KFF.

It examines the attitude and reasons of those who have not been vaccinated. An important, very important, variable examined is people who report they are hesitant awaiting more information [these are people who have been waiting but eventually mostly getting shots] vs those who refuse and have no intention of getting a shot no matter what. Data is available. Interpretation is not difficult.

There are several articles here from reliable sources that seem to indicate that black and brown people have lower percentage of vaccinations against Covid-19.

This is not meant to be racist, just factual.

What percentage of the U.S. black population are vaccinated against Covid-19 - Bing

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by drstevens

As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors, The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant., and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request. I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!

That is wonderful news how your wife is fine after treatment with Hydroxychloroquine, especially that the drug was administered long after her first symptoms. I had read that Hydroxychloroquine should be started within 24 hours of symptoms for it to be beneficial and effective. Glad your wife is fine now. Also........how can anyone still test positive 5 months after the initial positive result? Is that common?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by drstevens

As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors, The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant., and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request. I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!

What field of Science did you train in?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Proveone

Your chart is one source and the percentages are very close. Lower socioeconomic populations have less access to medical care/vaccine. The problem with Covid 19 is not how or where it started but rather the poor/incompletent reponse by the previous US administration. We were warned about the possibility of a pandemic years ago.

That is a good summary for as far as it went.

[jbartle1]

Originally Posted by billethkid

We are witnessing the re-introduction of the fear factor.
With covid on the decline the decision makers were facing a lack of leverage....fear!

Walenski is the new Fauci flip flopper!

Pleeeease, the virus has changed, hence, science direction also changes.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by jbartle1

Pleeeease, the virus has changed, hence, science direction also changes.

This has nothing to do with the pandemic and everything to do with someone, once the golden child working for both parties, who made the fatal mistake of disagreeing with his boss and telling American's the truth. The same thing happened over and over with people of good reputation getting thrown under the bus for disagreeing with the boss.

[lkagele]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Have you had the shot?

I don't know how history will look at it, but this is a scary virus and it could continue to mutate unless we get it stopped. History may not have folks to record this nasty possibility.

Yes, I've had the shots. I'm in the age bracket that is most at risk. I don't, however, get upset of younger folks refusing the vaccination. It's a 'my body, my choice' type of thing and I don't believe the unvaccinated pose a great risk to me.

No one around to record this history? A little alarmist, don't you think? And, the vaccine isn't going to stop this virus. It's becoming more and more apparent that the vaccinated continue to contract the disease. Thankfully, in most of those cases, the symptoms are minor. I suspect this virus is going to out live all of us here in TV.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by lkagele

Yes, I've had the shots. I'm in the age bracket that is most at risk. I don't, however, get upset of younger folks refusing the vaccination. It's a 'my body, my choice' type of thing and I don't believe the unvaccinated pose a great risk to me.

No one around to record this history? A little alarmist, don't you think? And, the vaccine isn't going to stop this virus. It's becoming more and more apparent that the vaccinated continue to contract the disease. Thankfully, in most of those cases, the symptoms are minor. I suspect this virus is going to out live all of us here in TV.

Well, the people that have spent their lives fighting and studying pandemics disagree. The general consensus is that is it NOT a my body my choice, it is not getting the vaccine puts everyone at risk. There is the problem with the "my body" theory.

Children are not allowed in class without vaccinations. This is NOT a novel first time ever people have mandated vaccinations to make society safe, in fact this may be the first time vaccinations have NOT been mandated in this situation.

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

It will be interesting to see the particular study that found vaccinated individuals with high viral loads and what the frequency of "rare cases" really is. Some of this might be grasping at straws to find justification for a desired action.

People are getting sick and hospitals are filling - something needs to be done. It is the unvaccinated that are filling the hospitals so it appears vaccinations would solve the problem. Masking of the unvaccinated might also solve the problem, or at least slow it, but the past two months have shown that the unvaccinated won't wear masks if the vaccinated aren't wearing masks. You can tell the vaccinated they really, really need to wear masks and get vaccinated, but the past several months have shown that won't happen. So what can you do?

(Apologizing for the phrase, but ...) Why not kill two birds with one stone. If the unvaccinated won't wear masks when the vaccinated don't and if it's that important to get the masks on then force the vaccinated to wear masks too. "Because we said so" only goes so far but if you can show that the vaccinated can transmit the virus too then you have a reason to force it. Conveniently, along comes a report that shows high viral loads of Delta in vaccinated individuals.

But, "two birds?" Yes. The real answer is to get the unvaccinated to take the shot and stop spreading, stop filling hospitals, and stop dying. Carrots have already been tried with little effect so bring on the sticks. 186M vaccinated folks who have to go back to masking because of the unvaccinated may be able to provide a bit more "encouragement." And, if that doesn't work, you could also determine that vaccine mandates are legal, even before full FDA approval, and start rolling those out as well.

Part of the role of the CDC is to provide recommendations on how to stop this pandemic. They will try understand the virus and recommend ways to attack it, but they can also try to understand human nature and recommend approaches to improve the odds of success. It will be interesting to see the particular study that this latest approach was based on.

Well today the Pres says he wants to offer 100$ to each new vaxer. As much as prev vaxered people are going to complain and ask for their money also, it really doesn't matter, ANYTHING to get these people on board

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by lkagele

Yes, I've had the shots. I'm in the age bracket that is most at risk. I don't, however, get upset of younger folks refusing the vaccination. It's a 'my body, my choice' type of thing and I don't believe the unvaccinated pose a great risk to me.

No one around to record this history? A little alarmist, don't you think? And, the vaccine isn't going to stop this virus. It's becoming more and more apparent that the vaccinated continue to contract the disease. Thankfully, in most of those cases, the symptoms are minor. I suspect this virus is going to out live all of us here in TV.

So glad that mantra and mindset was not exploited when polio and small pox was eradicated in our country. These newer generations are going to be the damnation of our society as we know it.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

First of all, very sorry to hear you have MM, but that is really the reason to avoid the vaccine in your case, especially actively receiving chemo. The "antibodies" you have are really not the sine qua non of COVID immunity. It turns out there are multiple antibodies involved, and we simply don't have a good test to determine which ones confer immunity (yet).

There should be no problem finding "anti-vaccine" web sites---just google conspiracy theories, so despite your user name, I have to question whether you are a medical doctor or just happen to have 1st and middle initials of "d" and "r"

Lastly, I am always skeptical of any post that advises people to "do their own research" Most people don't have the background in science or medicine to understand the literature nor make a reasonable conclusion. That's why we have EXPERTS to evaluate the data and advise the decision makers and inform the public. We can't have millions of "Dr. Googles" out there making their own decisions based on their "own research"

And as far as some of the treatments you mentioned, they are basically unproven. And even if they have some utility, they are after the fact treatments for active COVID. Much better to prevent it in the first place. It's pretty amazing that anti-vaxxers like to state the vaccine isn't "FDA" approved, even though it has emergency approval in this emergency, yet point to a whole array of alternative "treatments" that will never have FDA approval.

I agree with that post. I would like to add something to the last part about FDA approval. The way I understand it is that the FDA approved the vaccines for "emergency use" after being convinced by many fairly large trials. Now they have proved themselves HIGHLY beneficial by their success for the approximately 50% of the US that have taken them - that is greater than an enormous laboratory test.

Now the FDA has been working toward FINAL approval. The FDA has to inspect and certify every factory manufacturing the vaccines and that every employee and factory line has a high degree of QUALITY CONTROL. That's what has taken a long time - the vaccines MUST be without problems because lives depend on it. And the public's ACCEPTANCE of the vaccine depends on it. Historically, one batch of the sugar-cube polio vaccine had live poliovirus in them and CAUSED many polio cases. This was probably (?) the origin point of the anti-vaccine sentiment.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Masks are NOT going to make the virus go away. I have no intention of wearing a mask in public the rest of my life. I tried to be reasonable about wearing them BEFORE the vaccination, but not any more. I am not interested in protecting those that refuse to be vaccinated. I would expect no more from you all if I did not wish vaccination. I do not get the flu shot and have never had the flu, but I would not blame you if or when I do ever catch the flu.. It is my responsibility, not anyone else's. Do not force me to wear a mask when I cannot catch the virus or transmit it. If I knew that I was going to have to wear a mask the rest of my life, I would never have gotten vaccinated. We are sending a great message to folks by telling them that they will still have to wear a mask after getting vaccinated to protect them from infection.
Common sense anyone?

The Delta variant has changed things by INCREASING the risk. Humans need to be flexible in adapting to NEW conditions. In a war zone, an army has to ADAPT to survive and win - sometimes attacking, sometimes defending, and sometimes retreating. Think of we humans as being in a war against the VIRUS. We have to defend ourselves by getting vaccinated. We can only attack the VIRUS if all the troops are of the same mindset to be vaccinated. The Delta variant is now attacking us. So we must retreat - back to masks and social distancing. The flexible caveman was the one that survived.

[RonaldJ]

I don't care about the unvaccinated including people in my own family. Hopefully if they get it their simtoms will be minor. That is by their chose. But don't tell me that because of them I have to start wearing a mask again, then their chose is infringing on my life. What worries me is that if everyone does not get vaccinated more variants will come out that the vaccine does not work against. Mid 70's with respiratory problems if their chose gives me even minor problems they could kill me.