[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Emotions and misinformation can trump (no pun intended) logic and science. We are in Abe Lincoln's "you can fool some of the people all of the time" phase. Soon with enough DEATHS and hospitalization ALL of the people will be convinced to get vaccinated. But, likely by then, the VIRUS will have moved on and become stronger - maybe enough to require a NEW vaccine. Hope the UNvaccinated can find a way to rewind the clock to the days when America was really Great.

The reason I originally posted the University of Wisconsin example was to point out the fundamental illogic of this debate as it appears here. The Wisconsin folks, we have to assume, are intelligent people: they wouldn't be at the University otherwise. Some number of them, for reasons we do not know, have decided not to get the vaccine, but we must assume that their reasons make as much sense to THEM as ours do to any one of us. They can probably spout numbers, statistics, trends, etc. as impressively as any of the folks who post here, and I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that they're just as sure they are right as any of the folks here.

The only rational argument that the pro-vaccine people can offer up is, basically, preponderance of the evidence. But even that is suspect: we see scary numbers of people being diagnosed with the Delta variant of COVID, but the evidence as to the death rate of that variant is all over the board: do a Google search and see what you come up with. As they say, figures lie and liars figure. The ONLY common "argument" I've seen here is, basically, that they're wrong because they a) don't have the correct information, b) have been lied to, c) are stupid, or d) you fill in the blank.

The irony is that they, as in the folks at U of W, can say the exact thing about any person here, with as much (or as little) accuracy.

So who gets to decide which arguments are based on "emotion and misinformation" and which are not?

[CaliforniaCat]

Mind you own (neighborhood) business.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

...
The only rational argument that the pro-vaccine people can offer up is, basically, preponderance of the evidence.
...

(EDIT: My unhelpful comment removed)

That one sentence sums it up for me.

There seems to be three sides to the vaccination discussion: vaccinated, unvaccinated, and dead. Since the vast majority of the dead are coming from the unvaccinated camp, choosing to be vaccinated is the safer place to be.

Originally Posted by blueash

You are wrong. There is no adjustment for political party in any racial or ethnic group. Read what I wrote again, and do the math yourself. I made absolutely zero comment about the political party of the vaccine refusers in the post you quoted. If you are interested in how political party alters vaccine acceptance, there is data available. I did link to a report examining vaccine refusers. It is not "my poll", it is not a poll at all. "An ongoing research project tracking the public’s attitudes and experiences with COVID-19 vaccinations."

For further edification, if you are interested and capable, I'd recommend reading another report from KFF.

It examines the attitude and reasons of those who have not been vaccinated. An important, very important, variable examined is people who report they are hesitant awaiting more information [these are people who have been waiting but eventually mostly getting shots] vs those who refuse and have no intention of getting a shot no matter what. Data is available. Interpretation is not difficult.

Here’s the adjustment you deny you made.

blueash quote
“The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population. “
——————————————

The link you offered as proof is just a puff piece. You should read it because you appear to have no idea what it says. The percentages are raw and not adjusted as you did above for the blacks. Also the methodology of the poll is missing so it’s accuracy cannot be determined. There is no R*2 given or t or F tests. The population, frame and sampling method is missing. It is written just as a hit piece on Republicans under the guise of ongoing research.

[oneclickplus]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

The vaccine IS APPROVED. Saying it is not, implying it is not is just misinformation.

Every medication sold in the US legally is approved for limited use cases unless otherwise specified. You can usually tell which are which, one is called over the counter (you can buy it in a drug store or even online) the other is ONLY available by prescription or under doctors' supervision.

So to answer YOUR question, how many are expected to take non-approved vaccines", the answer is NONE. Absolutely none at all. But, the current vaccines ARE APPROVED.

We go around and around this tree, so my misinformation is repeated constantly.

WRONG. Here is a link to the CDC fact sheet (at the CDC website) for the Pfizer shot (not a vaccine). A similar document exists for the Moderna shot (not a vaccine):

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

In that document is this EXACT quote. I underlined the part you need to know.

FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, which is not an FDA-approved vaccine.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

WRONG. Here is a link to the CDC fact sheet (at the CDC website) for the Pfizer shot (not a vaccine). A similar document exists for the Moderna shot (not a vaccine):

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

In that document is this EXACT quote. I underlined the part you need to know.

FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, which is not an FDA-approved vaccine.

You said it yourself it IS approved by the CDC who is the only agency that can approve it for emergency use, in place of the FDA. I did NOT say it was FDA approved, I said it was approved, which it is. Approved as in authorized by the Government agency that can.

But, yes, let's play word games while people are dying because we are playing word games. That is what good patriots that love their country and fellow Americans do, play word games while our countrymen die.

[Cindyd]

A few questions I have for CDC are:
What is death rate of Delta variant. If you look at #s, it's low. Viruses mutate, typically getting more infectious, but less serious with each change.

What is science behind requiring vaccinated people to wear masks? Breakthrough % is .003%. There are 2 studies re breakthroughs; 1 rejected bc it is based on vaccine NOT used in US & a small study out of Houston, that is still under review.
Why are kids being masked?
The vaccine hasn't been tested on pregnant women. Shouldn't they, others that Dr's advise not get vaccinated, people with natural immunity & children under 12 be eliminated from vaccine goals.
Why not seek to understand why people aren't getting vaccinated? Why aren't blacks getting vaccinated...bc our VP has repeatedly told them medical community is racist?
Why is CDC silent on # of covid cases, unvaccinated people coming across our border?
Shouldn't the gov answer those questions?




The

[Cindyd]

The CDC has know since at least last Nov that the PCR test was picking up the flu virus as Covid. However, not announced until this week, and labs have until 12/31 to replace them. Don't they owe us an estimate as to how many Covid cases were miscalculated? Also, is it coincidental that testing reco changes the day after Gates/Soros buys the reco test replacement co?

Also, why zero talk about theraputics? Not enough $, eliminates fear advantage/distraction or don't they work?

Why not transparency?

[drducat]

I told you all so...............

CDC mask decision followed stunning findings from Cape Cod beach outbreak - ABC News


Wait............

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by drducat

I told you all so...............

CDC mask decision followed stunning findings from Cape Cod beach outbreak - ABC News


Wait............

Told us WHAT?????

Here's the quote from the director of the CDC cited in YOUR article---

"Information on the delta variants from several states and other countries, indicate that in rare occasion some vaccinated people infected with a delta variant after vaccination may be contagious and spread the virus to others," she added. "This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendation."

So the question remains, why require masks in vaccinated people for such a "rare" event. Are they not revealing something, or are they just plain alarmists?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Told us WHAT?????

Here's the quote from the director of the CDC cited in YOUR article---

"Information on the delta variants from several states and other countries, indicate that in rare occasion some vaccinated people infected with a delta variant after vaccination may be contagious and spread the virus to others," she added. "This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendation."

So the question remains, why require masks in vaccinated people for such a "rare" event. Are they not revealing something, or are they just plain alarmists?

I think that current statistics will soon show that it is indeed causing vaccinated people to get sick with a "mild flu".

I have received a text from someone I trust that he has just tested positive for Covid after attending a group at a rec center here. He was notified that one person tested positive in the group and caught it from another in the group. The person I know had had both shots for Covid and is feeling "mild flu symptoms".

The graphs are showing high numbers hospitalized but they are much younger and most are from unvaccinated people. Most of us don't want to get even "mild flu symptoms". Most of us don't want anyone to get sick because of us either.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think that current statistics will soon show that it is indeed causing vaccinated people to get sick with a "mild flu".

I have received a text from someone I trust that he has just tested positive for Covid after attending a group at a rec center here. He was notified that one person tested positive in the group and caught it from another in the group. The person I know had had both shots for Covid and is feeling "mild flu symptoms".

The graphs are showing high numbers hospitalized but they are much younger and most are from unvaccinated people. Most of us don't want to get even "mild flu symptoms". Most of us don't want anyone to get sick because of us either.

Well GG, this is a personal, not professional opinion, but i think the agenda of the powers that be is to force everyone back into wearing masks for God knows what reason. Therefore, the "statistics" they are going to present and the manner in which they present them may be biased. They will have the ability to "cherry pick" what they tell the public. Remember, "statistics don't lie, people lie with statistics"

I'm looking forward to what the CDC has to say today, and see if it is different (or backtracked) from what they said Tuesday. If so, it would suggest (not conclusively prove) that they are going along with a political agenda and not the science of epidemiology

[Irishmen]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Well GG, this is a personal, not professional opinion, but i think the agenda of the powers that be is to force everyone back into wearing masks for God knows what reason. Therefore, the "statistics" they are going to present and the manner in which they present them may be biased. They will have the ability to "cherry pick" what they tell the public. Remember, "statistics don't lie, people lie with statistics"

I'm looking forward to what the CDC has to say today, and see if it is different (or backtracked) from what they said Tuesday. If so, it would suggest (not conclusively prove) that they are going along with a political agenda and not the science of epidemiology

COVId is nothing but political. Yes I can conclusively prove it. COVID just didn't happen.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Irishmen

COVId is nothing but political. Yes I can conclusively prove it. COVID just didn't happen.

Well, that would be quite an accomplishment. Go for it. Care to share your "proof" (no conspiracy theory websites please)?

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Irishmen

COVId is nothing but political. Yes I can conclusively prove it. COVID just didn't happen.

Certainly everyone should be awaiting your “conclusive proof” about the politics of the virus.