[Rich Iwaszko]

Wow! Thats a lot of hats to wear.............When I asked the owner of Quashnet Valley about a redesign architect he said to me, Don't you know how to draw!!!! Some of us older pro's were pro/superintendents but that was another era. Commenting on design, okay, but, on construction, very very limited pro knowledge.

Do you really think Arnold Palmer commented on construction? Design maybe........I guess Nancy Lopez must have been the one.

Originally Posted by BrianL99

At the PWAC meeting a couple of weeks ago, Mitch Leininger said he thought the Executive Course greens were built to USGA specs. Upon further review, it seems that some are and some aren't. Some are straight "push up" greens.

According to the District, the "renovation" contracts all specify USGA Greens. I've seen the standards and I'm not convinced we're getting what we're paying for. I have spoken to the District and they've gone out of their way to listen, comment and perhaps consider tightening up their specs in the future.

As you know, you can build greens to Augusta National specs, and if you don't take care of them, they're not going to last. Rebuilding golf courses every 10-12 years (which is now the official cycle per the District), is the craziest thing I've ever heard. How many times did you guys "rebuild" Pocasset? Course maintenance in a place like TV is a 365 day a year challenge for professionals. The mow/fertilize/rebuild process is flawed.

Regarding your comment about PGA Professionals:

Apparently, the Golf Professionals in TV are also tasked as "Executive Golf course renovation design consultants and construction managers". I wrote a letter to the District last week and made the claim that "PGA Professionals manage golf, not construction and/or design". While most PGA Professionals are knowledgable, they're not agronomists, designers or construction managers.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Do you really think Arnold Palmer commented on construction? Design maybe........I guess Nancy Lopez must have been the one.

Arnie showed up & hit a drive off #1 on Laurel Valley ... the plaque is in the fairway. Ed Seay probably did the design concept & some kid in the office did the plans. Not bad for $1,000,000.

[Rich Iwaszko]

Good work if you can get it!!!!!! However, I believe several courses in Orlando use the Arnold Palmer Maintenance Group, Disney and maybe Orange County.

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Arnie showed up & hit a drive off #1 on Laurel Valley ... the plaque is in the fairway. Ed Seay probably did the design concept & some kid in the office did the plans. Not bad for $1,000,000.

[thelegges]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I agree, to an extent.

That said, not every sport nor sport venue, is appropriate for adaptation to everyone's needs. The theory of "inclusiveness" is fine, until it's carried to the extremes.

Wheelchair racers shouldn't be racing in marathons, along side the folks who are actually "running".

Golfers who are riding all over a small, confined golf course in vehicles, should perhaps be playing on a "field" (course), built to accommodate such use, not one built for folks who are more mobile.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Have you ever been to marathons that have wheels? Take Run Disney (we get there at 2am for the cheer volunteer section) not at any time is a wheeled participant interfering with a runner.

Chairs, or custom adapted bikes, then strollers with all types of challenged and paraplegics, from young adults to some in their 90s at start line first. Followed by police Officers on bikes. All are across the finish line, 20-30 minutes prior to any runner.

According to your thoughts not every sport venue is appropriate for adaptation for handicap, and shouldn’t be allowed to participate because sports shouldn’t be carried to the extreme.

I am so glad you were elsewhere last week, when I had the privilege to play golf with a young man on a single rider. He was in his 40s, lost a leg and arm fighting for his country. He was fitted with bionic prosthesis.

At the shack he immediately apologized that he would slow me down, and effect my game. My return comment, no worries I taught 6-10 year olds summer golf, playing with you will be a pleasure.

I am thankful that the golf industry has made equipment to accommodate anyone who would like to enjoy the game of golf, or any sport for that matter.

Sorry you feel not all sports should be adapted, and those in TV that are health challenged should play golf in fields.

You should thank God every day that a stroke, or accident will never impact your life, to the extent you speak of, to spend the rest of your days playing in a cow pasture.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by thelegges

Have you ever been to marathons that have wheels? Take Run Disney (we get there at 2am for the cheer volunteer section) not at any time is a wheeled participant interfering with a runner.

Chairs, or custom adapted bikes, then strollers with all types of challenged and paraplegics, from young adults to some in their 90s at start line first. Followed by police Officers on bikes. All are across the finish line, 20-30 minutes prior to any runner.

According to your thoughts not every sport venue is appropriate for adaptation for handicap, and shouldn’t be allowed to participate because sports shouldn’t be carried to the extreme.

I am so glad you were elsewhere last week, when I had the privilege to play golf with a young man on a single rider. He was in his 40s, lost a leg and arm fighting for his country. He was fitted with bionic prosthesis.

At the shack he immediately apologized that he would slow me down, and effect my game. My return comment, no worries I taught 6-10 year olds summer golf, playing with you will be a pleasure.

I am thankful that the golf industry has made equipment to accommodate anyone who would like to enjoy the game of golf, or any sport for that matter.

Sorry you feel not all sports should be adapted, and those in TV that are health challenged should play golf in fields.

You should thank God every day that a stroke, or accident will ever impact your life, to the extent you speak of, to spend the rest of your days playing in a cow pasture.

It’s really amazing how people interpret another’s post. He’s entitled to his opinion. He can speak for himself but your post is an attempt at shaming him...and also a veil threat at his future health IMO. Remind me not to book any appointments in your practice Doc! I love and attend adaptive sports events...especially at my kids schools. It’s exciting and well attended by students and parents. Had the opportunity to ski in NH with an individual with adaptive skis and was blown away by the skill level and fluidity. I can understand some may have limited experience/interaction with that community....but that being the case doesn’t make one against their advances into the mainstream. I read his post differently than you, having followed his intelligent, thoughtful and constructive posts in the past....I believe his intentions were without prejudice or malice to the community

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by The Gazette

A report released this week from the United States Golf Association links El Niño, tree coverage limiting sunlight and aging infrastructure as some factors contributing to worsening golf course conditions in The Villages. The visit from Chris Neff, a consulting agronomist with USGA, comes amid a string of executive golf course closures due to renovation

More...

The article mentions increased humidity in the air and increased clouds. I hate to say it but that is the big picture called planet warming. Increased CO2 from vehicle tailpipes cause this problem, which no one wants to talk about or about the OBVIOUS solution. I think it is almost humorous that it takes an expert to come here to talk about what scientists say is happening worldwide. And it keeps increasing for the last 5 years. They might as well have given me the MONEY for the consulting.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

How many people here, have ever hired a Consultant and expected to the Consultant to publicly disagree with the official position?

There was no way the consultant was going to say: "You guys are a doing a crappy job of maintaining your golf courses and you all should be fired". Without saying it in words, I think the District has already conceded they haven't done a great job of maintaining the courses and have found themselves behind the curve.

I think we're going to see an entirely new attitude towards maintaining the Executive Courses, over the next year or two. It takes time to stop the current momentum and revamp the process. We are dealing with government and change comes slowly.

As for the report, my opinion is ...

"Trees" are the bane of golf courses. Roots and canopies do more to prevent grass from growing, than El Nino ever thought of.

If you don't properly maintain your greens, your organic layer increases every year and eventually you choke off the grass ... it just won't grow. I have never seen a green in TV get a deep core aeration. It may happen, but I've never seen it. #1 problem with greens.

There's too much traffic on the golf courses. Shocking news.

The "Landscapers" aren't held accountable. More shocking news.

We need a long-term plan, with identifiable goals and performance standards. Yep

We need to convert to newer strains of Bermuda. Already in progress.

We need to review our contracts and improve them. Even Mitch admitted that, at a PWAC meeting.

Traqmatz is a pretty cool product, but at $4/sq. ft., it's fairly costly.

It became abundantly clear that the District got the message, when they came up with the El Nino story and then brought in the USGA. We can all complain that it's too little too late, but at this point, things can only improve.

Now I'm about to put on my Flak Jacket.

In my opinion, we cannot sustain the Executive Golf courses, unless they are operated 100%, "Cart Path Only". You can not like it. You can disagree with it. You can say it's unfair. It's a fact. If you want reasonable conditions year round, get rid of the carts.

The truth is, if you can't walk the few steps it requires to play an Executive Course, without driving on the fairway, you really need to choose another sport. Your days as a golfer are behind you. I understand the MickyLee Pitch & Putt has plenty of Tee Times available.

If I were TV King for a Day, I'd pick out 5-10 Executive Golf courses and make them completely "walking only".

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

If planet warming continues (which it will) the only grass that would be completely resistant would be Astro (artificial) TURF. And , at least, it would NOT require water and fertilizer. "Walking only" is probably a good idea but that won't stop the additional humidity and the increased cloudy days, which the "EXPERT" said was the major problem.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Funny thing about el Nino. It seems to be pretty selective, ravaging some courses while leaving other courses, often only a mile or so away, in excellent condition.

Exactly!!!! Which is why I can't believe the USGA even referenced El Nino in their report---what a joke. And trees????---What trees????? In general, Florida courses have the least number of trees in the golfing world (except Dubai). The only defense on a Florida course is usually just sand and water. The exception might be Copperhead, but that course is in excellent condition.

I'm not an agronomist, but I would think the causes of bad conditions here are

1) lack of supervision of the maintenance crews, couple with perhaps a poor understanding of how to maintain a golf course.
2) Excessive play with little rest for a course, but that coupled with the way exec "golfers" abuse the course
3) If true, a system that rewards coming in under budget.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sunrise Beach

The removal of the trees was what I felt was a lousy excuse. Most great golf courses have beautiful trees throughout. I urge any management who might read this thread to reconsider that aspect. We know the grass will not be lush in those areas but at least we aren’t playing in a desert devoid of trees and a bit of shade.

Agreed, but those "great golf courses" are mostly up north with different grasses and different climate conditions. Florida is an island which is now (last 5 years ) surrounded by record HEATED water.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

It’s really amazing how people interpret another’s post. He’s entitled to his opinion. He can speak for himself but your post is an attempt at shaming him...and also a veil threat at his future health IMO. Remind me not to book any appointments in your practice Doc! I love and attend adaptive sports events...especially at my kids schools. It’s exciting and well attended by students and parents. Had the opportunity to ski in NH with an individual with adaptive skis and was blown away by the skill level and fluidity. I can understand some may have limited experience/interaction with that community....but that being the case doesn’t make one against their advances into the mainstream. I read his post differently than you, having followed his intelligent, thoughtful and constructive posts in the past....I believe his intentions were without prejudice or malice to the community

Thanks for the defense, but I didn't respond to that post, because it's not worthy of a response. It was a complete and utter distortion of my post.

I'm involved in a bit of a controversy right now, at a country club. They've planning on renovating their clubhouse and trying to find every angle under the sun, to avoid compliance with handicap accessibility regulations. I told them that not only are they legally and ethically wrong, they should be embarrassed to even suggest they're not willing to provide accessibility.

The other side of the coin, there are limits to "reasonably accommodation".

While playing golf yesterday, I was thinking ... the next time I look at TOTV, someone will be attacking me about my post. The analogy that came to mind, is:

Suppose in their infinite wisdom, The Villages decided to create a "beach" at Lake Sumter (alligators and reality aside) and wanted to place a "floating swimming/diving raft" in the middle of the lake.

Would they be obligated to build a "pedestrian bridge" to the diving raft? I think not.

What if they opted to provide a pedestrian bridge? In that case, they are 100% obligated to provide a bridge that is in compliance with all accessibility regulations.

The law (or ethics, nor common sense) dictates that everyone has to be accommodated, in a way that makes their physical capabilities, consistent will someone else's. If that was the case, the NBA would have to two hoops at each end of the court. One for the "real basketball players" and one for the guys over 5'5", who got booted out of Jockey Training School and decided to play in the NBA, instead.

"Being old" is not considered a disability under ADA. Entitled jerks have manipulated ADA/Disability regulations, to the detriment of those who it was designed to help. In TV, it seems anyone who's ever seen a Doctor, can get themselves a pass to drive their golf cart anywhere they want to take it. That's just plain wrong in my opinion.

If you have a legitimate disability that keeps you from playing golf, get yourself a solo-rider, adaptive golf cart to play golf or rent one at the course. That's what they're designed for. Every course at TV has one to rent. If the demand was there, they'd buy more.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The article mentions increased humidity in the air and increased clouds. I hate to say it but that is the big picture called planet warming. Increased CO2 from vehicle tailpipes cause this problem, which no one wants to talk about or about the OBVIOUS solution. I think it is almost humorous that it takes an expert to come here to talk about what scientists say is happening worldwide. And it keeps increasing for the last 5 years. They might as well have given me the MONEY for the consulting.

Now THAT is truly hilarious

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Agreed, but those "great golf courses" are mostly up north with different grasses and different climate conditions. Florida is an island which is now (last 5 years ) surrounded by record HEATED water.

Wow! This gets funnier and funnier.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

If planet warming continues (which it will) the only grass that would be completely resistant would be Astro (artificial) TURF. And , at least, it would NOT require water and fertilizer.

One has to admire your dedication to your cause.

I'd be all in on astro-turf golf courses, other than the nasty chemicals used to create that stuff are driving the earth's temperature through the roof already. I was thinking of going back up north for a while, but I just checked. The temperature at my home in NH is a sweltering 55 degrees today. Damn global warming.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by coleprice

Follow the Money!!! Chris Neff's consulting fees were paid by The Villages.

Executive Leadership employed by The Villages who are responsible for Golf Course Management are Replaced! Mitch Leininger, who is The Villages executive responsible for Golf Course Maintenance should be FIRED for the failure of his organization to maintain golf courses. His failure is costing Village residents many millions of dollars, so his replacement(s) must (1) Make necessary Organizational Changes, (2) Establish Priorities and (3) Direct & Empower those responsible for maintaining Golf Courses in good, playable condition. Some Executive Golf Courses are in great shape, which demonstrates that with the right leadership, golf course conditions can be properly maintained within the current budget. Also, it's nice to see that nobody is buying the lies about the weather causing golf course deterioration.

There is NO POINT in firing Mitch Leininger because NO human can stop the increased moisture coming from the Gulf and Oceans that surround Florida, which are much WARMER in the last 5 years. He can't stop the clouds or the moisture.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

There is NO POINT in firing Mitch Leininger because NO human can stop the increased moisture coming from the Gulf and Oceans that surround Florida, which are much WARMER in the last 5 years. He can't stop the clouds or the moisture.