[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Taj44

No, I'm thinking either he mis-spoke, or my spouse mis-understood. Or maybe the courses do get the same amount of water, but Palmer has better sub-base conditions so it is able to retain the water better. Perhaps it was built better with better and more topsoil with water retaining abilities, while Mallory may be been built with little top soil and lots of sand, which won't retain water as well.

What is the ultimate goal here. With all the speculation, theory and opinion what are you trying to accomplish? Every opinion offered to you is countered with the same argument of speculation.
I think you need to make an appointment with the powers to be and see how they respond to your theories. Although in the end I don't think you will be satisfied.

[Larry Wilson]

Originally Posted by mikeod

Think water allocation. It differs from place to place, with a lot depending on when they were built, even within TV. That's why Hacienda wasn't overseeded completely. In TV, with more and more homes being occupied, the drain on the reclaimed water supply is increasing. Home irrigation has priority over golf courses. Wanna bet some people are irrigating more than two times a week? Look at the zoysia lawns around TV. They are the closest to the bermuda used on the golf courses. Lots of brown. And they don't have golf carts running over them every day. To blame this on anything but the lack of rainfall presumes the people responsible for the golf courses don't care or don't know what they are doing. Their hands are tied by the water restrictions THEY have imposed on them. It's not fair to compare to courses outside TV which may have sources or allocations of water TV doesn't have. OBH is the oldest course in TV, with plenty of time for the roots to get deep so the grass can sustain drought conditions better than the newer courses. It is not a coincidence that the courses above 466, in general, have been in better condition (except Hacienda, for obvious reasons) than the newer courses south of 466.

I have met and spoken to people responsible for golf courses in TV and they are passionate about these courses. Talk to the pros at the courses and you will see the same concern about conditions, tempered by the reality of the unusual seasons we have experienced the last two years with temperature and rainfall.

Sorry to be late to this conversation. I totally agree with mikeod in his posts.
I think the staffs are doing the best they can with the amount of water they have to use. One staff might be a bit better at it than another but I think they are all trying their best. The problem is as mikeol said- that we don't have enough water for all the houses and the golf courses. Most states would never of let a developer impact the local environment with this many people. All the lakes have been used up in Ocala National Forest. We use a great deal of water in here.
Friends of ours bought 40 years ago and believe me they have gone through many, many changes in plans and build out dates. So I don't believe for a minute plans can't be changed. I don't believe in building more and more when you don't have enough water for what is already built.
So I think mikeod knows what he is talking about. One thing I hear all golfers agreeing on is that the golf courses are in poor condition.

[ajbrown]

Not sure who talked to who, but nice work. Looks like we are getting a little bit of rain in Mallory

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by ajbrown

not sure who talked to who, but nice work. Looks like we are getting a little bit of rain in mallory

1-800-god

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

1-800-god

Didn't you mean... 1-800-god-rain?

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by pooh

You're so bad.....

Especially since the water from the drinking fountains wasn't mentioned with the pool water!

[PylutDood]

Winter and Spring...6 months out of the year, Florida is dry. We ARE in drought conditions all over the state, usually 6 months out of every year.

In a nut shell...it's all a cycle, usually influenced by WX in other areas of the country and the World.

Summer and Fall are our wet seasons. Unfortunately, most of our rainfall detriment is made up in the form of Tropical Storms and Hurricaines.

Going into June and July, things start changing. The rainfall you had today is but a first "Glimpse" of the WX pattern to come.

Pretty soon, if you're not at the 19th hole by noon - 2pm...you'll be rained out of the rest of the day, due to convective thunderstorm activity. Enjoy it while you can, learn to play a dry FAST course before the 90+ deg temps and 90+ humidities take their toll.

The course's will recover, and so will the water table.

I can go into a long disertation of why this is but I wont on this board. If we meet one day I'll be happy to explain it.

I hold a B.S. from F.S.U. in Meterology and Climatology and have lived in Florida almost all my life.

(I'am just hoping I did'nt stick my nose into somewhere it did'nt belong)

Dave

[red tail]

Originally Posted by PylutDood

Winter and Spring...6 months out of the year, Florida is dry. We ARE in drought conditions all over the state, usually 6 months out of every year.

In a nut shell...it's all a cycle, usually influenced by WX in other areas of the country and the World.

Summer and Fall are our wet seasons. Unfortunately, most of our rainfall detriment is made up in the form of Tropical Storms and Hurricaines.

Going into June and July, things start changing. The rainfall you had today is but a first "Glimpse" of the WX pattern to come.

Pretty soon, if you're not at the 19th hole by noon - 2pm...you'll be rained out of the rest of the day, due to convective thunderstorm activity. Enjoy it while you can, learn to play a dry FAST course before the 90+ deg temps and 90+ humidities take their toll.

The course's will recover, and so will the water table.

I can go into a long disertation of why this is but I wont on this board. If we meet one day I'll be happy to explain it.

I hold a B.S. from F.S.U. in Meterology and Climatology and have lived in Florida almost all my life.

(I'am just hoping I did'nt stick my nose into somewhere it did'nt belong)

Dave

its refreshing to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about. we dont get that often enough on this forum!
it gets tiring hearing about flying monsters stealing our pets and others building concrete bunkers in their garage for the killer tornados and lightening rods on their roof!!

[Taj44]

We know the courses will recover once we get rain - many us us are longtime Villages residents and see the seasonal changes each year. But some of our questions, at least those of us who have inquiring minds, hinge on the water allocations during drier times, and why, even though there are water restrictions, some courses like Havana, that are newer than other courses and conceivably receive the same water allocation, are greener and nicer.

[spk7951]

Played TPC Tampa today and what a difference from TV courses. Course is in very good shape and probably the best greens I have ever putted on. Talked to a couple of folks there and they told me that they do not have any watering restrictions.

[jcgolfs]

After playing Glenview and Lopez this past week, must give both a very good rating.

[Taj44]

I played Glenview this week, and found the fairways pretty decent, greens on Fox Run were in good shape, but were pretty shaggy and didn't putt well. Stirrup Cup greens hadn't quite healed from the aerification - this may be due to the lack of rain. A good rain should get everything growing pretty fast in this heat.

[schotzyb]

Originally Posted by Taj44

I played Glenview this week, and found the fairways pretty decent, greens on Fox Run were in good shape, but were pretty shaggy and didn't putt well. Stirrup Cup greens hadn't quite healed from the aerification - this may be due to the lack of rain. A good rain should get everything growing pretty fast in this heat.

Have the areas where they replaced sod on the greens improved? Two weeks ago they looked like a quilt.

[Taj44]

I remember seeing a few of those areas; they hadn't healed completely, but I guess the day we played they didn't have the pins in those areas so it wasn't a factor. My problem was that the greens were slow and I was having trouble getting the ball to the hole. They may be keeping them on the long side due to the heat, but whatever reason, I didn't like the way they putted.

[Taj44]

I received interesting information from the office of golf operations. I had asked some questions regarding water allocations for the various courses. In a nutshell the following information was given:

1. Mallory and Cane didn't get their fairways overseeded this year due to lack of rain.
2. Cane and Palmer receive the same water allocation. Havana receives about 2% less water, and Mallory receives about 9% less water due to the allocations. Local Water Management determines the water allocation for the golf courses based on the permits with SWFWMD.
3. Mallory had some major pump irrigation problems this spring.
4. The courses were all built to the same specs i.e. Palmer built to the same specs as Cane or Mallory
5. There will be improvments made to Orange blossom - enlarging a couple of the greens, leveling some of the tees, and building 2 new restrooms.