[SHIBUMI]

Tommy Thyme would be proud of you!

Originally Posted by GymJim

In my humble opinion "slow play" in The Villages (primarily on so-called Championship courses) is a self-inflicted wound caused primarily by the imposition of the unrealistic 8-minute tee time intervals and their (The Villages') time par calculations based on that theoretical place of play. I am not a mathematician, but anyone with a basic knowledge of Queuing Theory can figure out that each of 15 foursomes playing on a full, 18 hole course cannot sustain an 8 minute per hole pace no matter what. One, small bottleneck will disrupt every group behind it and, like in a traffic jam or at a stoplight, stopping and starting does not happen simultaneously - there is always a delay for each ensuing group. Also in my humble opinion, 4 decent golfers can walk 18 holes faster than 4 "elderly" Villagers can play while driving 2 to a cart. Remember how fast we played during COVID when 4 carts per foursome was allowed? I lived in the UK for many years, and they walk there rather than ride - yet most tee time intervals in Scotland are 10-12 minutes despite the faster pace of play. I'd imagine that the sweet spot to maximize enjoyment and profit (the real culprit here) is about an 11 minute tee time interval. I am also not an engineer, nor do I do time and motion studies, but my sense is that The Villages uses the 8 minute interval to squeeze as many people on the course as possible (maximize profits) and justifies it by 'thinking' that our over 55 crowd will make up for its collective lack of mobility/skill/rules awareness etc. by riding in a cart - which (to me) is a false assumption. Especially if there are two golfers to a cart and each one waits in the cart for the other to hit before proceeding to his ball. Still no excuse for ignorance and creeping along, but let's be honest Villagers are getting older and slower, not younger and faster. So, if enjoyment of the game for everyone was really a primary goal (remember that "Villages Lifestyle" you thought you bought?) then The Villages would use tee time intervals (for foursomes) more in line with the UK and most of the world. I am all for playing quickly, but dictating speed of play is like dictating morality - just does not work. Kind of reminds me of a sign I saw years ago at the 1st tee at Andrews Air Force Base (near DC) golf course that read: "You Will play in 4 hours!" That's an order. Bottom line: Villagers probably would not play any faster, but they would enjoy it more, if they were not being told they are too slow, as a result of being gauged against some unsustainable 8 minute per hole pace of play requirement. It's primarily the dictated pace of play that causes the perception of slow play. Loosen it up to 11-12 minute intervals and see how that works. Only problem with that is loss of profits - but who's counting?

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by GymJim

In my humble opinion "slow play" in The Villages (primarily on so-called Championship courses) is a self-inflicted wound caused primarily by the imposition of the unrealistic 8-minute tee time intervals and their (The Villages') time par calculations based on that theoretical place of play. I am not a mathematician, but anyone with a basic knowledge of Queuing Theory can figure out that each of 15 foursomes playing on a full, 18 hole course cannot sustain an 8 minute per hole pace no matter what. One, small bottleneck will disrupt every group behind it and, like in a traffic jam or at a stoplight, stopping and starting does not happen simultaneously - there is always a delay for each ensuing group. Also in my humble opinion, 4 decent golfers can walk 18 holes faster than 4 "elderly" Villagers can play while driving 2 to a cart. Remember how fast we played during COVID when 4 carts per foursome was allowed? I lived in the UK for many years, and they walk there rather than ride - yet most tee time intervals in Scotland are 10-12 minutes despite the faster pace of play. I'd imagine that the sweet spot to maximize enjoyment and profit (the real culprit here) is about an 11 minute tee time interval. I am also not an engineer, nor do I do time and motion studies, but my sense is that The Villages uses the 8 minute interval to squeeze as many people on the course as possible (maximize profits) and justifies it by 'thinking' that our over 55 crowd will make up for its collective lack of mobility/skill/rules awareness etc. by riding in a cart - which (to me) is a false assumption. Especially if there are two golfers to a cart and each one waits in the cart for the other to hit before proceeding to his ball. Still no excuse for ignorance and creeping along, but let's be honest Villagers are getting older and slower, not younger and faster. So, if enjoyment of the game for everyone was really a primary goal (remember that "Villages Lifestyle" you thought you bought?) then The Villages would use tee time intervals (for foursomes) more in line with the UK and most of the world. I am all for playing quickly, but dictating speed of play is like dictating morality - just does not work. Kind of reminds me of a sign I saw years ago at the 1st tee at Andrews Air Force Base (near DC) golf course that read: "You Will play in 4 hours!" That's an order. Bottom line: Villagers probably would not play any faster, but they would enjoy it more, if they were not being told they are too slow, as a result of being gauged against some unsustainable 8 minute per hole pace of play requirement. It's primarily the dictated pace of play that causes the perception of slow play. Loosen it up to 11-12 minute intervals and see how that works. Only problem with that is loss of profits - but who's counting?

I remember how fast play was during covid and everyone had their own cart. No wasting time zig zagging all other the fairways slowing each other down. Only damages done by carts were the drivers ignoring the 90 degree rule or driving near the greens and bunkers.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by GymJim

In my humble opinion "slow play" in The Villages (primarily on so-called Championship courses) is a self-inflicted wound caused primarily by the imposition of the unrealistic 8-minute tee time intervals and their (The Villages') time par calculations based on that theoretical place of play. I am not a mathematician, but anyone with a basic knowledge of Queuing Theory can figure out that each of 15 foursomes playing on a full, 18 hole course cannot sustain an 8 minute per hole pace no matter what. One, small bottleneck will disrupt every group behind it and, like in a traffic jam or at a stoplight, stopping and starting does not happen simultaneously - there is always a delay for each ensuing group. Also in my humble opinion, 4 decent golfers can walk 18 holes faster than 4 "elderly" Villagers can play while driving 2 to a cart. Remember how fast we played during COVID when 4 carts per foursome was allowed? I lived in the UK for many years, and they walk there rather than ride - yet most tee time intervals in Scotland are 10-12 minutes despite the faster pace of play. I'd imagine that the sweet spot to maximize enjoyment and profit (the real culprit here) is about an 11 minute tee time interval. I am also not an engineer, nor do I do time and motion studies, but my sense is that The Villages uses the 8 minute interval to squeeze as many people on the course as possible (maximize profits) and justifies it by 'thinking' that our over 55 crowd will make up for its collective lack of mobility/skill/rules awareness etc. by riding in a cart - which (to me) is a false assumption. Especially if there are two golfers to a cart and each one waits in the cart for the other to hit before proceeding to his ball. Still no excuse for ignorance and creeping along, but let's be honest Villagers are getting older and slower, not younger and faster. So, if enjoyment of the game for everyone was really a primary goal (remember that "Villages Lifestyle" you thought you bought?) then The Villages would use tee time intervals (for foursomes) more in line with the UK and most of the world. I am all for playing quickly, but dictating speed of play is like dictating morality - just does not work. Kind of reminds me of a sign I saw years ago at the 1st tee at Andrews Air Force Base (near DC) golf course that read: "You Will play in 4 hours!" That's an order. Bottom line: Villagers probably would not play any faster, but they would enjoy it more, if they were not being told they are too slow, as a result of being gauged against some unsustainable 8 minute per hole pace of play requirement. It's primarily the dictated pace of play that causes the perception of slow play. Loosen it up to 11-12 minute intervals and see how that works. Only problem with that is loss of profits - but who's counting?

You need to rethink your math. It’s not 8 minutes per hole because it’s 8 minute tee times. There will be 2 groups on n par 4’s and even 3 on par 5’s. If you look on the scorecard you can see they generally allow 17 minutes for a par 5, 15 for a 4 and 13 for a par 3. Even the PGA tour that leaves 10 minutes between twosomes don’t plan on a 180 minute (3 hour) round

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by DonH57

I remember how fast play was during covid and everyone had their own cart. No wasting time zig zagging all other the fairways slowing each other down. Only damages done by carts were the drivers ignoring the 90 degree rule or driving near the greens and bunkers.

That is easy to fix. Instead of sitting in your cart, waiting for your partner to hit, drop him off, head to your ball. Once your partner hits, they should start walking up the fairway and once you hit, you can quickly pick him up...

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

That is easy to fix. Instead of sitting in your cart, waiting for your partner to hit, drop him off, head to your ball. Once your partner hits, they should start walking up the fairway and once you hit, you can quickly pick him up...

Obviously you don't live in TV.

[Laker14]

I can play fast, or I can play slow.
What I can't stand is being in the group that is responsible for slow play. That will ruin my golf day.

In my regular group nobody seems to get offended or upset with me when I point out that we need to catch up. Playing with strangers is more problematic. One thing that no-one has mentioned: 3 or 4 really bad golfers will be slow. Especially in carts.

It's painful to watch a group of really bad golfers who haven't managed to get a ball airborne in several holes walk from cart to ball, top it 20 yards, walk to the cart, drive the cart 20 yards, walk to ball, top it 20 yards....rinse and repeat.

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

That is easy to fix. Instead of sitting in your cart, waiting for your partner to hit, drop him off, head to your ball. Once your partner hits, they should start walking up the fairway and once you hit, you can quickly pick him up...

We do that because I for one have two new knees. People should do that. Others can't or just won't.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Rwirish

Always in a hurry. Relax and enjoy the day.

Slow(er) play, who cares.

The people who are scheduled to tee off behind the people who are scheduled to tee off behind the people who are scheduled to tee off behind you, AND everyone behind them.

[DonH57]

Not fun to watch the ones that fly in directly up to the starter shack 2 minutes before their tee time, sign in, pull up to the tee box put on their shoes and prepare to get ready to play.

[fdpaq0580]

How about par for the hole is the number of swings you get. After that, pick up your ball and go directly to the next tee, take a number and wait your turn. NO TALKING, EATING, DRINKING, SMOKING, FARTING while waiting for your turn.
You may have teed off with a group, but after that, you're on your own. Don't forget your helmet and jock strap. Your score card may have DNF on many holes. Tough! Your body may have some bruises. So what? Hit the effing ball and MOVE! People are waiting!

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

How about par for the hole is the number of swings you get. After that, pick up your ball and go directly to the next tee, take a number and wait your turn. NO TALKING, EATING, DRINKING, SMOKING, FARTING while waiting for your turn.
You may have teed off with a group, but after that, you're on your own. Don't forget your helmet and jock strap. Your score card may have DNF on many holes. Tough! Your body may have some bruises. So what? Hit the effing ball and MOVE! People are waiting!

The only thing I don't do while golfing is smoking and I will fart on the green if the group behind us hits up on us!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Obviously you don't live in TV.

I never said it actually happens... I said it would fix the problem...

BTW, my golf buddies do this all of the time.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by DonH57

We do that because I for one have two new knees. People should do that. Others can't or just won't.

Of course there are exceptions (like having 2 new knees)...

But if you're able to walk a but, you'll speed up play and get more exercise!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by DonH57

The only thing I don't do while golfing is smoking and I will fart on the green if the group behind us hits up on us!

I have a friend who's life pleasure is to fart during your backswing...

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by jmintzer

i have a friend who's life pleasure is to fart during your backswing...

roflmao 🤣😂😅