[JohnFromMaine]

First let me say that I do indeed very much appreciate the dedicated and hard work that the ground crews perform over the night time hours. Considering the over 10 to 12 thousand rounds played each day during the top season, the courses are in marvelous shape and I want to thank each and every one involved.

I would never have started this thread except that that day on Escambia made me realize that maybe a discussion might be helpful. Each season I see 1 or 2 poorly placed pins every once in a while. Once, 5 or 6 years ago I was putting on the 4th hole at Bogart. The hole was 3/4ths of the way up the steep slope towards the right. I putted about 12 feet up to the hole 4 or 5 times with the ball missing the hole and rolling back down to me. My fellow players were all laughing, as was I. How could one not laugh? However, when there are 8 of 9 pins such as that, I think concern should be voiced.

Today, on Volusia, all the pins were in good places. Some were tougher than others and the pin on 9 was particularly challenging but fair. 2 of us missed our putts because of deceptive reads which makes for a good and fair challenge. We were both amazed by the two different breaks but not upset.

Once again, thank you to the ground crews. You are unsung heroes.

[Miles42]

Obvious that a majority of the crew that makes the pin placements and cuts the hole are not trained well.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by Miles42

Obvious that a majority of the crew that makes the pin placements and cuts the hole are not trained well.

Clearly evident.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by outlaw

If you enjoy golf on unkempt courses, that is good for you. If you don't mind waiting 10 minutes on each tee because of slow play, more power to you. I know many people who have no problem playing tennis with old tennis balls. But better tennis players open a new can every time they step onto the court. It makes for a better experience for the better player. I think this is the same for golf, or for any sport. To each his own.n

"A lot of play" does not excuse lack of respect for the course and other players. Pitch marks on the greens, and footprints in bunkers have nothing to do with the number of players. It has everything to do with inconsiderate and disrespectful players. And it doesn't take a professional caretaker on a PGA played course to take a little interest in understanding the proper pin placements. I blame the manager for not making sure his/her employees understand the basics of pin placement, cutting holes, and setting tees.

Where is there unkept course in the villages? Millions of dollars spent to keep them up! If they are unkept then maybe we don't need no more?

[kcrazorbackfan]

Played Mallory today; all the pins were fair placements on the FRESHLY SANDED GREENS. The upside to the sand was, after numerous groups had gone thru, your could see the lines in the sand showing the track to the pins. Let's face it, these ground crews do the best they can in the short allotted time they have everyday and these courses rarely have a break in the amount of play they have. With the rain we've been getting, the courses are really starting to green up; irrigated water can only help so much, but there's nothing as beneficial as good rain.

I catch myself sometimes doing what everyone does, going flag hunting, and I've found that I've actually started scoring better by firing at the center and trusting the flatstick to get me to those close to the edge pins.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Where is there unkept course in the villages? Millions of dollars spent to keep them up! If they are unkept then maybe we don't need no more?

You misunderstood my comment, or I wasn't clear. Many of these executive courses are as good or better than many country club courses from a maintenance standpoint. Overall, many excellent executive courses in TV. I was referring to the golfers abusing the courses by being too lazy/inconsiderate to fix their pitch marks, sand their divots and rake the bunkers after they mess them up. They act like a bunch of pigs.

[Walter123]

Originally Posted by outlaw

You misunderstood my comment, or I wasn't clear. Many of these executive courses are as good or better than many country club courses from a maintenance standpoint. Overall, many excellent executive courses in TV. I was referring to the golfers abusing the courses by being too lazy/inconsiderate to fix their pitch marks, sand their divots and rake the bunkers after they mess them up. They act like a bunch of pigs.

In all fairness, pigs have a hard time with the raking due to the whole hoof thing.
However, I wish the pigs would fix the ground where they forage.
Ya gotta admit that those little piglets are kind of cute though! Oink, Oink.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Walter123

In all fairness, pigs have a hard time with the raking due to the whole hoof thing.
However, I wish the pigs would fix the ground where they forage.
Ya gotta admit that those little piglets are kind of cute though! Oink, Oink.

No disrespect meant to pigs...they don't know any better.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by outlaw

You sound like you're not enjoying your job anymore.

I think that he loves his job but is a bit frustrated when people complain and don't understand what goes into maintaining a golf course.

I worked in the golf industry for 35 years and although I loved my job, it was irritating to hear people coming in after playing and complaining about little things. I was stuck in the shop for ten to twelve hours and didn't get to play as much as I would have liked and instead of appreciating how fortunate these people were to be out playing golf, they came in whining about the greens were too slow or they got a bad lie in a fairway.

Like I said, I loved my job, but it was annoying and frustrating to hear people who should have been out enjoying themselves come in complaining while you were working hard to make their time at the club as enjoyable as possible.

[DonH57]

I think the pin placements should be on the ponds because that's where my balls go.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I think that he loves his job but is a bit frustrated when people complain and don't understand what goes into maintaining a golf course.

I worked in the golf industry for 35 years and although I loved my job, it was irritating to hear people coming in after playing and complaining about little things. I was stuck in the shop for ten to twelve hours and didn't get to play as much as I would have liked and instead of appreciating how fortunate these people were to be out playing golf, they came in whining about the greens were too slow or they got a bad lie in a fairway.

Like I said, I loved my job, but it was annoying and frustrating to hear people who should have been out enjoying themselves come in complaining while you were working hard to make their time at the club as enjoyable as possible.

One person's truthful observation is another person's "complaining". As in your statement regarding being "stuck" in the pro shop for 10 to 12 hours. Many people would feel lucky to be working in the golf industry, being paid to be at a beautiful country club atmosphere all day, meeting new and interesting people, mostly in a good mood because they're at the golf course, not stuck in their cubicle office environment. Successful businesses understand that the customer can make or break them. Ergo "the customer is always right" cliche. You won't find too many successful businesses if the owner thinks customer dissatisfaction is just picky "complaining". Golf swing fundamentals is a combination of very precise movements and synchronization of those movements. The difficulty of doing this well is what attracts many to the game. Take the top player in most country clubs, a person that has that swing and ball striking consistency you wish you had, and you will likely find a person that is still practicing more than most, still working on improving their swing mechanics, etc.; never totally satisfied with their level of performance. The people that approach (not achieve) this perfection, many times expect this level of dedication from everyone else. It's not so much that they are complaining. They are just responding to the employee obligatory greeting "how was your round today". Or maybe they think that the course depends on their input to improve the course conditions, as in "what did the manager say when you told him about your poor service" or "did you call the course superintendent to tell them about the poor pin placements".

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by outlaw

One person's truthful observation is another person's "complaining". As in your statement regarding being "stuck" in the pro shop for 10 to 12 hours. Many people would feel lucky to be working in the golf industry, being paid to be at a beautiful country club atmosphere all day, meeting new and interesting people, mostly in a good mood because they're at the golf course, not stuck in their cubicle office environment. Successful businesses understand that the customer can make or break them. Ergo "the customer is always right" cliche. You won't find too many successful businesses if the owner thinks customer dissatisfaction is just picky "complaining". Golf swing fundamentals is a combination of very precise movements and synchronization of those movements. The difficulty of doing this well is what attracts many to the game. Take the top player in most country clubs, a person that has that swing and ball striking consistency you wish you had, and you will likely find a person that is still practicing more than most, still working on improving their swing mechanics, etc.; never totally satisfied with their level of performance. The people that approach (not achieve) this perfection, many times expect this level of dedication from everyone else. It's not so much that they are complaining. They are just responding to the employee obligatory greeting "how was your round today". Or maybe they think that the course depends on their input to improve the course conditions, as in "what did the manager say when you told him about your poor service" or "did you call the course superintendent to tell them about the poor pin placements".

Most people get in the golf business because they love the game and they love to play. Unfortunately for most of us we find that we're not able to play very much because we spend so much time helping others enjoy their time at the the club.

You're right, I've heard many people talking about how they'd feel lucky to be able to spend every day at a beautiful country club. Believe me, it's a lot different when you are there to work than when you are there to play.
But I will admit that it was much better then working in an office. My work life varied tremendously every day. I did meet interesting people and it was very rewarding to know that I helped some of those people play better and enjoy the game more. But, it's not a bed of roses and working in an environment where every is on their recreation time and you are working can be very frustrating. This is especially so when people come in from playing golf and whine about minor problems. I often want to say, "Why don't you stay here and unpack, price and put these sweaters out while I go out and play."

I'd ask everyone who came in after playing how their day went and how they played. Most were very happy but there were always those few that felt that they had to complain about everything. Some people are just not happy no matter what. And many of these complainers would complain about the most ridiculous things. But, I'd patiently listened to all of it promising that I'd look into it.

[worcester]

I can play gold on most executive courses. I cannot and will probably never be able to carry the water on Mangrove #4 and Seetgum #8 (depending on tee placement). Most gold tee golfers I play with also cannot. Makes me stay away from these 2 courses

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by worcester

I can play gold on most executive courses. I cannot and will probably never be able to carry the water on Mangrove #4 and Seetgum #8 (depending on tee placement). Most gold tee golfers I play with also cannot. Makes me stay away from these 2 courses

If you generally like the courses, why not just play green tees on those couple of holes.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by worcester

I can play gold on most executive courses. I cannot and will probably never be able to carry the water on Mangrove #4 and Seetgum #8 (depending on tee placement). Most gold tee golfers I play with also cannot. Makes me stay away from these 2 courses

Take a look at the initiative called "Tee It Forward". There's nothing wrong with "checking your manhood" at the starter shack and enjoying the game again, at all the courses, from the set of tees that is friendly to you. I see way too many guys, and a few women, playing tees too far back. Besides you having more fun, it helps speed the game up.