[SHIBUMI]

Athletes can pick golf up quicker because of their ability to co-ordinate their bodies. Average players don't have that ability. And with proper instruction athletes can shoot good numbers quicker, it's not going to put them on the tour, never said that, they just get better quicker.

Videos don't instruct, instructors instruct. They can use various methods to get the point across
as needed.

The average player can improve more with low tech instruction.

Originally Posted by BrianL99

How many former NHL players have played the PGA Tour or high level Amateur golf? The only 3 I know of, are Grant Fuhr, Dan Quinn and Bill Ezinicki, who I was friends with for 25+ ears. The skills are different.

Compare that, to the number of MLB players who have played golf at a high level.

If you took 5 people from each of the major professional sports and brought them to the golf course and stuck a golf club in their hand, this would likely be the results.

MLB pitchers and hitters would likely be the best golfers. They understand ball "spin", hand to eye coordination and they already play a rotational sport.

Tennis players, same as above. They understand grip, alignment, spin and play one of the ultimate "hand to eye coordination" sports.

Footballers? Most will try to hit the ball with their body (strength) and never learn golf. Quarterbacks maybe a different.

The hockey players would probably hit the ball farthest, without a clue where it's going.

No NBA player has ever played on the PGA, other than perhaps a novelty invitation.





As I've posted before, the above "swing advise" is mired in the 60's & 70's. High speed video, advances in technique and teaching theory, as well as improvement in equipment, has rendered most of the above advise, obsolete and adverse to improvement and enjoyment of the game. To say nothing of the fact, advances in statistical analysis have shed a bright light on formerly sacrosanct "scoring theories", which have turned out to be unfounded.

The game of golf is significantly easier than most folks seem to think. It is not a sport of "swing", it's a game of putting the golf ball in the hole and it doesn't matter how you do that or what swing you use.

If you have any doubt about that, go to YouTube and watch 3 people swing a golf clue ... Adam Scott, Jim Furyk and Scottie Scheffler If you're still not convinced, watch videos of Charlie Owens and Calvin Peete, Still not convinced? Watch videos of Sam Snead putting and Ben Crenshaw putting. Does "technique" matter? It doesn't matter a lick.

If you need more convincing, turn on the Ryder Cup right now. Watch Bryson DeChambeau swing ... then watch his partner Justin Thomas swing. Do you need further convincing? Take up tennis.

Anyone who tells you "swing like this", run. If someone tells you to change your swing, depending on what club is in your hand ... run faster. As Lee Trevino once said, "no one has ever hit a golf ball, with his backswing".

The only thing that matters, is what's going on with your clubface, within about 6" of the ball and there are only 2 variables ... club face angle (vertical & horizontal) and swing path.

Don't take swing advice from anyone who's unwilling to post their current, GHIN reported or otherwise confirmed golf scores and who can't beat you by a decent margin (in most cases).

[SHIBUMI]

they know how to teach. If a players better than you it doesn't give them the ability to correct you.

Go down the driving range and watch the 100 shooters instructing beginners. DAH

Tour players didn't teach themselves and they dont teach others very well.

The belief that you only listen to someone better than you is a false belief.

We are talking about taking the average player and improving them by 25% to 50%.

If you think the wood swing is the same as the iron swing then you may be prone to getting the bet doubled.

Gear down to the average player getting better and you will realize that technology only fills the mind. The golf swing is about feeling the body and better mechanics.

And yes, you agree that learning the full swing changes score the quickest, then the short game can enhance what you have.

You are mired in impact theory. I am mired in swing theory that gets you there and lets you repeat. That swing theory engages the proper physics and geometry to work. BUT, it will feel different to different golfers as their feel systems will never be the same. All Golfers are like snowflakes, none alike. And none taught the same way.

Originally Posted by BrianL99

How many former NHL players have played the PGA Tour or high level Amateur golf? The only 3 I know of, are Grant Fuhr, Dan Quinn and Bill Ezinicki, who I was friends with for 25+ ears. The skills are different.

Compare that, to the number of MLB players who have played golf at a high level.

If you took 5 people from each of the major professional sports and brought them to the golf course and stuck a golf club in their hand, this would likely be the results.

MLB pitchers and hitters would likely be the best golfers. They understand ball "spin", hand to eye coordination and they already play a rotational sport.

Tennis players, same as above. They understand grip, alignment, spin and play one of the ultimate "hand to eye coordination" sports.

Footballers? Most will try to hit the ball with their body (strength) and never learn golf. Quarterbacks maybe a different.

The hockey players would probably hit the ball farthest, without a clue where it's going.

No NBA player has ever played on the PGA, other than perhaps a novelty invitation.





As I've posted before, the above "swing advise" is mired in the 60's & 70's. High speed video, advances in technique and teaching theory, as well as improvement in equipment, has rendered most of the above advise, obsolete and adverse to improvement and enjoyment of the game. To say nothing of the fact, advances in statistical analysis have shed a bright light on formerly sacrosanct "scoring theories", which have turned out to be unfounded.

The game of golf is significantly easier than most folks seem to think. It is not a sport of "swing", it's a game of putting the golf ball in the hole and it doesn't matter how you do that or what swing you use.

If you have any doubt about that, go to YouTube and watch 3 people swing a golf clue ... Adam Scott, Jim Furyk and Scottie Scheffler If you're still not convinced, watch videos of Charlie Owens and Calvin Peete, Still not convinced? Watch videos of Sam Snead putting and Ben Crenshaw putting. Does "technique" matter? It doesn't matter a lick.

If you need more convincing, turn on the Ryder Cup right now. Watch Bryson DeChambeau swing ... then watch his partner Justin Thomas swing. Do you need further convincing? Take up tennis.

Anyone who tells you "swing like this", run. If someone tells you to change your swing, depending on what club is in your hand ... run faster. As Lee Trevino once said, "no one has ever hit a golf ball, with his backswing".

The only thing that matters, is what's going on with your clubface, within about 6" of the ball and there are only 2 variables ... club face angle (vertical & horizontal) and swing path.

Don't take swing advice from anyone who's unwilling to post their current, GHIN reported or otherwise confirmed golf scores and who can't beat you by a decent margin (in most cases).

[SHIBUMI]

Funny story...

I had a new lady member say she was thinking about taking a golf lesson, I asked her what she learned from her lesson at another club

She scowled at me and said, I learned that he knew how to hit a golf ball!

You have to search out teachers that connect with you......and the ones that don't connect are not bad teachers just bad communicators.

Originally Posted by swooner

Never took a lesson from a "PRO" who didn't try to teach you to swing just as he does!

[jimhoward]

[QUOTE=BrianL99;2463506]How many former NHL players have played the PGA Tour or high level Amateur golf? The only 3 I know of, are Grant Fuhr, Dan Quinn and Bill Ezinicki, who I was friends with for 25+ ears. The skills are different.

Compare that, to the number of MLB players who have played golf at a high level.

If you took 5 people from each of the major professional sports and brought them to the golf course and stuck a golf club in their hand, this would likely be the results.

MLB pitchers and hitters would likely be the best golfers. They understand ball "spin", hand to eye coordination and they already play a rotational sport.

Tennis players, same as above. They understand grip, alignment, spin and play one of the ultimate "hand to eye coordination" sports.

Footballers? Most will try to hit the ball with their body (strength) and never learn golf. Quarterbacks maybe a different.

The hockey players would probably hit the ball farthest, without a clue where it's going.

No NBA player has ever played on the PGA, other than perhaps a novelty invitation.





I think you are right that MLB players have had the most success in golf. Back in the day I think there was one MLBer who even played in the Masters. There is a long list of + handicaps (John Smoltz, Justin Verlander.....)

Steph Curry is + and has player in Korn Ferry tour events. The best NFL golfer of all time was almost for sure Al Del Greco (do kickers count?) who played in web.com events and is the head golf coach at Samford. Tony Romo is also really good.

But I think if you look at most sports (possibly baseball excepted) the percentage of exceptional golfers is not all that much higher than that of the general population. Good golfers can come from anywhere. Most people don't think of musicians as great athletes, yet Kenny G, Vince Gill, Jake Owen, Alice Cooper (okay he is not pro level, but surprisingly good), all are or have been outstanding golfers. But that doesn't mean that music leads to good golf. It just that a small percentage of all populations are good at golf.

[Justputt]

Originally Posted by SHIBUMI

Lessons that take a beginner and makes them a bogey golfer.

Lessons that take experienced golfers and reduce their handicaps 25-50%?

New clubs never do the trick. Just new toys. As Lee Trevino said, "It takes a new club a month to get to know you.
Then it acts just like the old one.

PGA Store has a teaching Pro and she's pretty good. Lesson package prices appear to have increased (maybe seasonal). 6 lesson (~45-60min) package is now $400. I had my wife learn there (totally new to golf), and she did pretty well but decided she'd stick with pickleball for now. The PGA Store has a dedicated simulator for instruction that gives all the data you could ever want on every swing (no hot sun, no guessing about swing path/club face/attack angle/etc.). After showing you what to do, you'll hit 10 balls, go to the computer screen and she'll explain what she sees, and work from there. I have also taken lessons there and the simulator is very helpful because I get real data and don't have to guess.

[SHIBUMI]

The largest population of new golfers are women. The largest population of those leaving the sport are women. It's a very delicate move to get them properly excited about golf. They want more social connection.

Originally Posted by Justputt

PGA Store has a teaching Pro and she's pretty good. Lesson package prices appear to have increased (maybe seasonal). 6 lesson (~45-60min) package is now $400. I had my wife learn there (totally new to golf), and she did pretty well but decided she'd stick with pickleball for now. The PGA Store has a dedicated simulator for instruction that gives all the data you could ever want on every swing (no hot sun, no guessing about swing path/club face/attack angle/etc.). After showing you what to do, you'll hit 10 balls, go to the computer screen and she'll explain what she sees, and work from there. I have also taken lessons there and the simulator is very helpful because I get real data and don't have to guess.

[SHIBUMI]

growing up.............did you play hockey?

Originally Posted by BrianL99

How many former NHL players have played the PGA Tour or high level Amateur golf? The only 3 I know of, are Grant Fuhr, Dan Quinn and Bill Ezinicki, who I was friends with for 25+ ears. The skills are different.

Compare that, to the number of MLB players who have played golf at a high level.

If you took 5 people from each of the major professional sports and brought them to the golf course and stuck a golf club in their hand, this would likely be the results.

MLB pitchers and hitters would likely be the best golfers. They understand ball "spin", hand to eye coordination and they already play a rotational sport.

Tennis players, same as above. They understand grip, alignment, spin and play one of the ultimate "hand to eye coordination" sports.

Footballers? Most will try to hit the ball with their body (strength) and never learn golf. Quarterbacks maybe a different.

The hockey players would probably hit the ball farthest, without a clue where it's going.

No NBA player has ever played on the PGA, other than perhaps a novelty invitation.





As I've posted before, the above "swing advise" is mired in the 60's & 70's. High speed video, advances in technique and teaching theory, as well as improvement in equipment, has rendered most of the above advise, obsolete and adverse to improvement and enjoyment of the game. To say nothing of the fact, advances in statistical analysis have shed a bright light on formerly sacrosanct "scoring theories", which have turned out to be unfounded.

The game of golf is significantly easier than most folks seem to think. It is not a sport of "swing", it's a game of putting the golf ball in the hole and it doesn't matter how you do that or what swing you use.

If you have any doubt about that, go to YouTube and watch 3 people swing a golf clue ... Adam Scott, Jim Furyk and Scottie Scheffler If you're still not convinced, watch videos of Charlie Owens and Calvin Peete, Still not convinced? Watch videos of Sam Snead putting and Ben Crenshaw putting. Does "technique" matter? It doesn't matter a lick.

If you need more convincing, turn on the Ryder Cup right now. Watch Bryson DeChambeau swing ... then watch his partner Justin Thomas swing. Do you need further convincing? Take up tennis.

Anyone who tells you "swing like this", run. If someone tells you to change your swing, depending on what club is in your hand ... run faster. As Lee Trevino once said, "no one has ever hit a golf ball, with his backswing".

The only thing that matters, is what's going on with your clubface, within about 6" of the ball and there are only 2 variables ... club face angle (vertical & horizontal) and swing path.

Don't take swing advice from anyone who's unwilling to post their current, GHIN reported or otherwise confirmed golf scores and who can't beat you by a decent margin (in most cases).

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by jimhoward

I think you are right that MLB players have had the most success in golf. Back in the day I think there was one MLBer who even played in the Masters. There is a long list of + handicaps (John Smoltz, Justin Verlander.....)

Steph Curry is + and has player in Korn Ferry tour events. The best NFL golfer of all time was almost for sure Al Del Greco (do kickers count?) who played in web.com events and is the head golf coach at Samford. Tony Romo is also really good.

But I think if you look at most sports (possibly baseball excepted) the percentage of exceptional golfers is not all that much higher than that of the general population. Good golfers can come from anywhere. Most people don't think of musicians as great athletes, yet Kenny G, Vince Gill, Jake Owen, Alice Cooper (okay he is not pro level, but surprisingly good), all are or have been outstanding golfers. But that doesn't mean that music leads to good golf. It just that a small percentage of all populations are good at golf.

A very good friend played with Steph Curry in a Korn-Ferry event. He’s got no chance at ever playing professional golf.

Romo has only made it through K-F Pre-qualifying once (he's 2 off the # right now: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G1yfqunX...jpg&name=large).

He’s got no chance of Qualifying for the Pro Tour. A +3 can generally make it through Pre-Qual. The point of Pre-Qual, is simply to eliminate guys that are going to shoot 95 (A guy shot 98 at PreQ, earlier this week). Romo has made it through 1st Stage only once. He's been playing in K-F Q Schools for 7-8 years.

Musicians? I’ve played behind Darius Rucker. He’s about an 8 Index. Alice Cooper? He played out of my Club for 3 weeks, every October, for years. A pleasure to be around. Seldom broke 85. I doubt being a musician is a contributing factor to golf success. As you point out, other than MLB players, I don't think there's much influence. Although ... I've played some golf with Joe Bellino (Boston Patriots, Heisman Trophy at Navy '60). Joe wasn't really a golfer, but professional athletes seem to have super-human, inherent physical ability, that shows in most everything they do.

Unless a player is at least a +6 at his home club, he’s got no chance.

Folks who aren’t around these guys, have no understanding of how good PGA & KF are. The one thing other Pro athletes have going for them, is mental toughness. A huge +.

The number of humans who can be competitive at 2 Professional sports is extremely limited.

[villagernewbie]

Originally Posted by thevillages2013

Video, video, VIDEO! Any instructor should video your swing and break it down for you. You should video your own practice sessions. You really have no clue what you’re doing wrong or right without video. Speaking of video, I have learned several swing tweaks by watching YouTube videos and they are FREE! Most people want Rory’s swing without putting in hours of practice. You can video your swing in your own yard, ball not needed. At the range I give a thumbs up or down after a swing because the camera can’t see where the ball went. By the way the driving range behind the Walmart on 466 has a few stations with shot tracers. Video screen shows track of the ball and estimates carry

I wholeheartedly agree about using video.

I was 30, in a place with long winters, when I first became addicted to this great game 40 years ago. I started taking my VHS camera with a tripod to the range and would turn to it after every shot and indicate which way it went and how well I made contact. This helped tremendously and was the single best thing I did in becoming better, including taking a half-dozen or so lessons in the beginning from a professional teacher (who didn't use any video).

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Not like other sports where you have to get to ball and then make shot.

If one can hit a moving tennis ball or pickleball that requires you to run to the spot, set your feet and hit the ball without a practice swing, why should hitting a stationary golf ball that you can take your time and practice motion beforehand be so difficult? One of the great mysteries of sports.

[SHIBUMI]

I guess the answer is that people want results and not just a lot of info.
I agree, fix me, dont just give me a lot of data............priceless

Originally Posted by Justputt

PGA Store has a teaching Pro and she's pretty good. Lesson package prices appear to have increased (maybe seasonal). 6 lesson (~45-60min) package is now $400. I had my wife learn there (totally new to golf), and she did pretty well but decided she'd stick with pickleball for now. The PGA Store has a dedicated simulator for instruction that gives all the data you could ever want on every swing (no hot sun, no guessing about swing path/club face/attack angle/etc.). After showing you what to do, you'll hit 10 balls, go to the computer screen and she'll explain what she sees, and work from there. I have also taken lessons there and the simulator is very helpful because I get real data and don't have to guess.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by SHIBUMI

If you think the wood swing is the same as the iron swing then you may be prone to getting the bet doubled.

You are mired in impact theory. I am mired in swing theory that gets you there and lets you repeat. That swing theory engages the proper physics and geometry to work. BUT, it will feel different to different golfers as their feel systems will never be the same. All Golfers are like snowflakes, none alike. And none taught the same way.

Impact is the only thing that matters. Everything else is just window dressing, to get to impact and hit that "dime size" sweet spot you're so enamored with.

[village dreamer]

my instructor told me i should take up some other sport , the only way im going to lower my score is with an eraser. god i like that guy.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by SHIBUMI

The largest population of new golfers are women. The largest population of those leaving the sport are women. It's a very delicate move to get them properly excited about golf. They want more social connection.

Well, you are mostly right. The two main types of female golfers I have met are the social and the competitive.

The social golfer enjoys the whole event, the ride to the golf course, the lovely vista of the course, the alligators in the water, the sandhill cranes wandering around. Enjoys the good conversation, admires the coordinated golf dresses the ladies are wearing. Celebrates all good shots, whoever makes it, in her group. Stories and drinks after the game, laughter, and a stuffed large blue bird awarded to the one who got the most birdies. Etc.

The competitive lady golfer is more interested in strictly the game itself, her score, her technique, her concentration, is she in “the zone”? How is she doing compared to the others? Compared to yesterday? What is her standing?

I used to be a competitive athlete in other sports not golf, and it was good fun, I never went pro, but now, retired, I prefer to enjoy the game of golf holistically.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Pugchief

If one can hit a moving tennis ball or pickleball that requires you to run to the spot, set your feet and hit the ball without a practice swing, why should hitting a stationary golf ball that you can take your time and practice motion beforehand be so difficult? One of the great mysteries of sports.

Not a mystery at all.

Movement from a static position is almost always harder than reactive movement.