[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by Pballer

Or do what Florida wants to do - let teenagers work as much as they want on school days for crappy wages to make up for the expulsion of illegal workers; if they are too tired to get an education no big deal, this is Florida after all.

So many fallacies:
1. If more teenagers were working, less would be getting into trouble. Not instead of school, in addition. Maybe make part time jobs mandatory!
2. "Crappy wages" are paid to unskilled, somewhat unreliable teens because that's what the free market will bear. No one is forcing them to take those jobs, but most would for some pocket money. My first job in 1975 at a fried chicken chain paid $1.65/hour, well less than minimum wage and I was thrilled to get the job.
3. Illegal workers are ILLEGAL, and shouldn't be here in the first place. Even if working, the freebies cost taxpayers a fortune.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by J1ceasar

By the way I've been in importer from China for about 40 years so I think I know a little bit of what I speak.

This is probably also going to kill at least a few hundred billion of business for wholesalers and employers as well as make it a lot more expensive for the average person when they go shopping in Walmart. Everyday item is that average people buy such a sneakers or green beans may go up things like jeans t-shirts etc it's going to take one or two years for factories to relocate to places like Vietnam and Malaysia the other decided to only give 0% import tariffs to the US.
Just my two cents

From experience, I appreciate the viewpoint.

But I also think that once many small companies are finished with their current inventory cycle, delivered prior to the tariffs, that post tariffs, many will not have the financial power to pay the import tariff, and pass all of it on to the customer, and will therefore go bankrupt.

Small businesses already have barriers to entry with oligopolies, of which most large national corporations have created with mergers and acquisitions.

The current economy is not the same as 10, 20 and definitely 40 years ago.

And for the oligopolies, they will pass on as much as they can, it will be inflationary, true, and plateau, which is how inflation works most times, jump conditions, then hold steady. . and the jump happens between everyone's pay raises and merit increases. . so we are always behind inflation, feature not a bug

[Pballer]

Originally Posted by Pugchief

So many fallacies:
1. If more teenagers were working, less would be getting into trouble. Not instead of school, in addition. Maybe make part time jobs mandatory!
2. "Crappy wages" are paid to unskilled, somewhat unreliable teens because that's what the free market will bear. No one is forcing them to take those jobs, but most would for some pocket money. My first job in 1975 at a fried chicken chain paid $1.65/hour, well less than minimum wage and I was thrilled to get the job.
3. Illegal workers are ILLEGAL, and shouldn't be here in the first place. Even if working, the freebies cost taxpayers a fortune.

Florida wants to allow teenagers to work unlimited hours and overnight shifts on school nights. Think about that.

Illegals pay taxes and do useful work that Americans don't want to do. It would be good if they would all be thrown out of the country though. Then perhaps the hatred of immigrants would be tempered when you can't find anyone to fix your roof, do your landscaping, or the price of food skyrockets.

[Pballer]

Originally Posted by daniel200

And now 24 hours later, it seems the exemption is being walked back. Another course reversal/flip-flop.

We shall see if the exemption is actually walked back. They are supposed to come up with a new tariff plan for computers, smartphones and electronics. Maybe they will, or maybe it will be one of those plans that they say they will issue in 2 weeks that ends up being never issued.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Pballer

Or do what Florida wants to do - let teenagers work as much as they want on school days for crappy wages to make up for the expulsion of illegal workers; if they are too tired to get an education no big deal, this is Florida after all.

Bad as that would be. I think that it would be better than using ILLEGAL workers. Maybe a compromise would be to PAY high school seniors to work a 8 hour daytime shift for good wages and limit it to 3 days per week. Also have good working conditions. And find ways to use machines and robotics.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by Pballer

Florida wants to allow teenagers to work unlimited hours and overnight shifts on school nights. Think about that.

That's obviously not ideal, but why would a parent let their minor child work like that? Think about that.

Illegals pay taxes

Not always. Many get paid 'under the table'.

and do useful work that Americans don't want to do.

And yet every time a factory has a bunch of openings bc the illegals leave, there are always seem to be people who want those jobs.

It would be good if they would all be thrown out of the country though.

Yes, it would. Come legally and work. Come illegally and get deported.

the hatred of immigrants...

I can't speak for others, but I like immigrants, as long as they come legally and support themselves instead of expecting handouts. My parents were immigrants who came legally, and never took a dime of welfare. I can respect that. Can you?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Pugchief

So many fallacies:
1. If more teenagers were working, less would be getting into trouble. Not instead of school, in addition. Maybe make part time jobs mandatory!
2. "Crappy wages" are paid to unskilled, somewhat unreliable teens because that's what the free market will bear. No one is forcing them to take those jobs, but most would for some pocket money. My first job in 1975 at a fried chicken chain paid $1.65/hour, well less than minimum wage and I was thrilled to get the job.
3. Illegal workers are ILLEGAL, and shouldn't be here in the first place. Even if working, the freebies cost taxpayers a fortune.

I agree especially with # 3.

[MorTech]

Other people's earnings don't belong to you. It is immoral to even think that you own other people.
Working crappy jobs motivates people to acquire higher marketable skills. You don't get to steal from those who do.
Almost all illegals live off the taxpayers...If you earn your living then I don't really care if you're here illegally.

[Pballer]

Originally Posted by Pugchief

That's obviously not ideal, but why would a parent let their minor child work like that? Think about that.

Maybe the family needs money. A lot of Florida is poor with crappy schools; probably not The Villages Charter School area though.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Pballer

Florida wants to allow teenagers to work unlimited hours and overnight shifts on school nights. Think about that.

Illegals pay taxes and do useful work that Americans don't want to do. It would be good if they would all be thrown out of the country though. Then perhaps the hatred of immigrants would be tempered when you can't find anyone to fix your roof, do your landscaping, or the price of food skyrockets.

For me, it is NOT a HATRED of individual ILLEGAL aliens. I just see the road traffic and the bridges falling apart and I don't want anymore population in the US. The school classes are overcrowded as it is. The ILLEGALS take jobs away from citizens that have been born here and have ZERO patriotic allegiance to the US. I don't HATE the ILLEGALS. I hate the US systems that allowed them to enter the US in the first place. We don't know anything about their CRIMINAL RECORDS and we don't know if they are bringing any diseases into the US and if they have ANY shot records. We have a measles outbreak in Texas which may have come from illegal aliens. Plus, obviously, US citizens NOT getting shots, which is a whole other kind of mess.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MorTech

Other people's earnings don't belong to you. It is immoral to even think that you own other people.
Working crappy jobs motivates people to acquire higher marketable skills. You don't get to steal from those who do.
Almost all illegals live off the taxpayers...If you earn your living then I don't really care if you're here illegally.

I care if someone is here illegally.

[Dr.Butler]

Originally Posted by Pugchief

So many fallacies:
1. If more teenagers were working, less would be getting into trouble. Not instead of school, in addition. Maybe make part time jobs mandatory!
2. "Crappy wages" are paid to unskilled, somewhat unreliable teens because that's what the free market will bear. No one is forcing them to take those jobs, but most would for some pocket money. My first job in 1975 at a fried chicken chain paid $1.65/hour, well less than minimum wage and I was thrilled to get the job.
3. Illegal workers are ILLEGAL, and shouldn't be here in the first place. Even if working, the freebies cost taxpayers a fortune.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. You’ve brought up some points that are definitely worth exploring. Let me respond to each:

1. Teen Jobs and Responsibility: It’s true that part-time jobs can instill responsibility, time management, and work ethic in teens—many studies support this. However, making jobs mandatory could introduce complications, especially for students involved in demanding academic programs, caregiving roles at home, or extracurriculars that are essential for scholarships or college prep. A better approach might be expanding access to optional youth employment programs that offer both flexibility and mentorship.

2. Teen Wages and Market Forces: You're right that entry-level wages often reflect market demand and perceived skill levels. But it's important to recognize that the labor landscape has changed dramatically since 1975. When you earned $1.65/hour, the cost of living—especially for essentials like housing, healthcare, and education was significantly lower. Today, even "pocket money" jobs can be essential for some teens who contribute to family income. Advocating for fair compensation and basic worker protections doesn’t mean disregarding market dynamics it means ensuring dignity and opportunity for all workers, including teens. (BTW, didnt you say in you first point that they would be mandatory? Now your saying no one is forcing them to do the jobs. Do you know the definition for mandatory?)

3. Undocumented Workers and Tax Contributions: While it's true that undocumented immigration presents legal and policy challenges, it's also important to recognize that undocumented workers contribute significantly to the U.S. economy including through taxes. The Social Security Administration estimates they contribute $6–$13 billion annually into Social Security alone, despite being ineligible to collect those benefits. Many also pay federal and state income taxes using ITINs, and like everyone else, they pay sales tax on purchases and property tax (directly or indirectly through rent). Yet they cannot access many public benefits such as Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance, or federal relief programs. So while there are legitimate debates to be had around immigration enforcement, it's inaccurate to suggest undocumented individuals are simply a financial burden. They often pay into systems that they cannot benefit from. As an additional example, undocumented workers can file tax returns using an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), and some do receive refunds if they overpaid taxes. However, they cannot claim many major benefits like the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) or Social Security refunds, even if they paid into those systems. So while refunds are possible, they're generally limited compared to what citizens or legal residents can receive.

[Dr.Butler]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

For me, it is NOT a HATRED of individual ILLEGAL aliens. I just see the road traffic and the bridges falling apart and I don't want anymore population in the US. The school classes are overcrowded as it is. The ILLEGALS take jobs away from citizens that have been born here and have ZERO patriotic allegiance to the US. I don't HATE the ILLEGALS. I hate the US systems that allowed them to enter the US in the first place. We don't know anything about their CRIMINAL RECORDS and we don't know if they are bringing any diseases into the US and if they have ANY shot records. We have a measles outbreak in Texas which may have come from illegal aliens. Plus, obviously, US citizens NOT getting shots, which is a whole other kind of mess.

Wow. So you think that more people leads to infrastructure decay? Not that state governments do nothing to maintain them. You think that classroom size is due to more people. Not that we do not pay enough for more teachers to enter the profession. You think that a person is "illegal" because the committed a civil misdemeanor (Like speeding which is basically the norm in this state, or driving without a seat belt) makes someone to be treated the same as a felon? Also its interesting that you think that Americans are ready to do the jobs that are being done by immigrants. Here is a thought, they are NOT doing those jobs now. Ask farmers how many Americans are coming in to do them. And you think that a measles outbreak is caused by "illegal aliens", knowing that not getting vaccinated is what leads to the outbreak, while wholly excluding people that travel from ALL OVER THE WORLD, legally, on vacation. We literally had measles beaten in this country until people stopped taking the vaccines. Then they cry when they become infected or lose loved ones.

[Dr.Butler]

Originally Posted by MorTech

Other people's earnings don't belong to you. It is immoral to even think that you own other people.
Working crappy jobs motivates people to acquire higher marketable skills. You don't get to steal from those who do.
Almost all illegals live off the taxpayers...If you earn your living then I don't really care if you're here illegally.

In what world do you think these people live off taxpayers? Do they get SS? Medical in this country is paid for, not free, so we know they are not getting that for free. Food? We are ALL paying more for that. Please, enlighten me, WITH evidence, what they get from taxpayers. And I would seriously check your source before you use it.

[Dr.Butler]

Originally Posted by daniel200

True, they can be grown in the states and then rot on the vine as the fruit pickers leave the USA. It is similar with eggs. All the large corporate “egg factories” in the USA depend on immigrant labor. Same with the beef and pork processing plants.

This. And as proof, Trump is now saying that those that work on farms and hotels (His industry) can stay. That is, in of itself an admission that he may realize he made a mistake.