[Byte1]

Taxing the "rich" more than anyone else is/should be unconstitutional. The country is discriminating against a group of citizens. There are two means of being "FAIR" when it comes to taxation; do away with income tax and charge a federal sales tax, OR charge one equal percentage rate for ALL income earned. Those that pay no taxes receive the most from our government and those that pay the most, receive the least. Sorry, but that is not equal treatment. By the way, with either idea the rich will still pay the most taxes.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I actually agree that sports should be optional and not part of any state budget. I ALSO think that there should be no such thing as "professional sports" at all. All these pro football players are recruited from schools. Schools get kickbacks. A school that doesn't produce recruits, doesn't get kickbacks. All that entire system has got to go. Right out the door. No pro sports = no high school recruits needed = no funding needed to support high school sports.

Has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation of this country, and has nothing to do with my post. I didn't play sports in college. I WORKED in college. Two part-time jobs, plus playing music in the subways for tips.

And if you have everyone learning all those things in college, who will be learning how to be doctors, dentists, nurses, and lawyers, scientists, researchers, and teachers? Who will be learning how to make clothing, and decorate homes, and create artwork and poetry? Who will learn the languages necessary to communicate with people in other countries when they go to do business deals on behalf of their corporation?

Do you want everyone to be a worker bee, with no one providing the sciences and "humanities" that make us human, and not just drones?

Reading comprehension is important, reread my post and you will see I indicated the skillset I mentioned along with STEM should be provided in high school not college and if sports are eliminated, that leaves lots of money and time for the important things. In four years of high school, many of the skills I mentioned can be taught without huge time allowances along with other classes.

I could rephrase my answer as to you want everyone to be educated drones with no life skills for their personal welfare. Heaven forbid anyone should get dirt under their nails..

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aces4

That's right, those seniors are already getting a free tax ride and SS benefits. When does the government stop being responsible for everyone living the life of luxury? Let seniors go through their savings and assets and pay their way. Passing money down to children and in 5 years, the seniors get all those government goodies. I've seen it happen.

A fair and equitable government would NEVER stop being responsible for every one living a life to the best of their ability. A government of a Democracy should be willing to care for "the least among us". The idea is to tax the successful in order to provide minimal housing and food for the unsuccessful. Some people are born with birth defects and low intellect. That is no fault of their own. Being rich or even above average is a combination of LUCK and hard work.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

“Hoarding” referred to income, not unrealized gains.

At some level unrealized gains are more than speculative, they become leverage, but that is a whole other topic.

Just how are the "hoarding" their income ? at the point that the gains are not just speculative they become factual, demonstrated and are taxed as such , how do you tax an unknown?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

Solution , don't be poor, market equites have produced over 8% over history, $200. a month investment over a working life of 35 years assuming a 6% compounded return you would have over 267 K

That's true, but medical bills and other unforeseeable events can ruin any savings plan. Here AGAIN the factor of LUCK comes into play.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

That's true, but medical bills and other unforeseeable events can ruin any savings plan. Here AGAIN the factor of LUCK comes into play.

Certainly episodic problems happen and can set a person several years but not over a 35 - 40 years of working

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

The "rich"??? Who are they??? Anyone who actually contributes to society by paying taxes, donating to charities, employing others and venturing capital?????

"The reports are saying....."---what "reports"? I think we can all guess the source of that misinformation.

This class warfare rhetoric has to end. The top 5% currently pay 65% of all taxes. And that's "fair"????? Forty-seven % pay no tax----and that's "fair". But by all means let's continue the populist rhetoric that started in 1933 and has only become worse since then.

Who are today's rich ? For the most part they are people whose family were rich for generations and they went to the best schools. Yes, a small % of the rich were "self-made". The original INTENT of America was that EACH generation must make their OWN way. Inheritance tax was supposed to force that to happen. But, each generation found ways to legally and illegally overcome that basic idea of each generation starting at zero wealth. Look at today's wealthiest individuals and very few were "self-made" without prior generational wealth support.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Ken D.

Curious, who's too blame for folks being poor?

Birth defects for one factor. Poor health for another.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Who are today's rich ? For the most part they are people whose family were rich for generations and they went to the best schools. Yes, a small % of the rich were "self-made". The original INTENT of America was that EACH generation must make their OWN way. Inheritance tax was supposed to force that to happen. But, each generation found ways to legally and illegally overcome that basic idea of each generation starting at zero wealth. Look at today's wealthiest individuals and very few were "self-made" without prior generational wealth support.

I missed that in constitutional law class. Could you please point that out in the Constitution (of the United States of America).

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

And factor in the difference between income and net worth, managing your investments to have the "income" you want the rest better positioned for growth , that by the way is a very positive thing for the economy that benefits everyone. The old adage is proven again and again " A fool and his money are soon parted". Those who have large wealth did something right to acquire that wealth , buy financing good ideas that grow the economy via productive enterprises , productivity, efficiency are why we have historically the highest standard of living for everyone

Actually, US standard of living is only about 20th in the world. The top 10 is dominated by Scandinavian Countries. It is easy to look up.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Birth defects for one factor. Poor health for another.

I don't think many would begrudge paying some tax to help the disabled, those with congenital birth anomalies or even those with true/serious mental issues. But I think many do not want to subsidize the lazy, the frauds, the scammers and the professional takers who suck at the government teat for generations on end with no end in sight. Those able-bodied individuals who CHOOSE not to work should be forced to get off their butt or forfeit their "benefits" and stop having 6 babies by 6 different fathers to get a larger welfare check so they can buy beer, cigarettes and lotto tickets. My father lived through the depression, remembered the family having 3 cents in the cupboard on Monday that had to last until Friday but never, EVER considered going "on the dole". Now, we have those individuals who not only received it but demand it and think that it is their God given right to mooch of the effort of others. Bring back the WPA work camps of the thirties and let them EARN those benefits and build something at the same time. I'd start by having them widen I-95 to 6 lanes through the Carolinas.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

A fair and equitable government would NEVER stop being responsible for every one living a life to the best of their ability. A government of a Democracy should be willing to care for "the least among us". The idea is to tax the successful in order to provide minimal housing and food for the unsuccessful. Some people are born with birth defects and low intellect. That is no fault of their own. Being rich or even above average is a combination of LUCK and hard work.

What a crock! No one said the truly disabled, severe birth defect, severe mental illness or defects shouldn't be cared for here. Teach your children there is no free ride or living out of someone else's wallet. The idea is not to tax the successful so the unsuccessful can live well without effort, ridiculous.

We would not have this mess now if the employable in the US looked for and obtained employment and also dumped the drugs. Talk to business owners who are looking for English speaking employees. Many, many young adults are so incapable of anything more than computer games and feeding their faces.

There was a construction business that hired a high school graduate who was interested in carpentry and schooling toward that goal. He worked ONE day at a home building site and quit, he said he didn't want to work that hard.

[Pballer]

Originally Posted by thekatman

The $6000 is adjusted downward after $175,000 when filing married jointly. And zeroes out at $250k.

Seniors really got screwed over on this one. No tax on tips phases out after $160,000/single. No tax on overtime phases out after $150,000/single or $300,000/couple. But the senior deduction phases out after only $75,000/single or $150,000/couple.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Actually, US standard of living is only about 20th in the world. The top 10 is dominated by Scandinavian Countries. It is easy to look up.

Great we can ship the "undocumented to Scandinavia , it would be in their best interest

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

We were doing that. And then, just over a year before spouse was going to retire from a mostly-obsolete skilled labor job he'd been doing for over 40 years, his company shut down the department. He was out of work, with zero income, and not old enough yet for social security. The mortgage company continued needing their payments. We put the house on the market, and it wasn't until a year later that it finally sold.

We had almost nothing left, at that point.

And, 35 years prior, neither of us was earning enough to put away $200/month. People with high-paying jobs are completely oblivious to what people with modest incomes have to go through in life.

To wit: 35 years prior to spouse's forced retirement, we hadn't even met. 35 years to spouse's retirement, it was 1984 and I was still a student in college, working two part-time jobs and busking in the subways of Boston to pay rent while I attended school full time. A year later I was working two other part time jobs, searching for full time work, and started paying back my student loans.

There was ZERO to save during these early years. I swear so many people I meet are just SO out of touch with the reality of working class America it's disheartening.

That shows the difficulty of being middle class TODAY. In the 50s through 70s my father had a UNION job and without my mother working at all, he paid off his house and bought a new car every 3 years. THAT was how a TRUE middle class was better than this so-called middle class today.