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  #181  
Old 03-16-2020, 03:51 PM
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Silver under $13 per ounce.. Wow!
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  #182  
Old 03-16-2020, 04:00 PM
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Intel is down to 44.61. I'm starting to be slightly disappointed. Just slightly since I don't own much of it. If it becomes worthless I'll be out the initial $50 investment. But at its height, it was worth over $8000. That would've been a couple of really nice dinners out, a new bathing suit, and the cash to combine with a trade-in on my old jalopy for a decent newer vehicle.
  #183  
Old 03-16-2020, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby View Post
Intel is down to 44.61. I'm starting to be slightly disappointed. Just slightly since I don't own much of it. If it becomes worthless I'll be out the initial $50 investment. But at its height, it was worth over $8000. That would've been a couple of really nice dinners out, a new bathing suit, and the cash to combine with a trade-in on my old jalopy for a decent newer vehicle.
You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away and know when to run.
  #184  
Old 03-16-2020, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy View Post
That is the theory, and having tried it, and watched investment bankers try to do it, and having been in corporate M&A, tried it my self with inside information, reality doesn't work so well. Damodarian who wrote a novel on valuation has never been able to make money with his DCF models and actual investments.

With the markets limit down overnight, now is a good time to just be patient and wait.

18 holes to discuss the markets?

sportsguy
Well, I kinda planned my finances to die on the day of my last dollar. Death may come sooner than anticipated now. Meanwhile, gas is cheap and I'm stockpiling in anticipation of the hurricane.
  #185  
Old 03-16-2020, 04:49 PM
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Prime is now 0.0% - 0.25%.

"Money for nothin' and..."

We're now basically out of ammunition for stimulus, except for cutting those items (Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Etc.) that have been considered until now..."the third rail."

It will be interesting to see, who reaches in first...to be electrocuted.

I suppose some people might think another tax cut for the wealthy and corp's might help, so +-75% of companies can buy back even more stock...thereby helping the 51% of Americans who own stocks.

Not sure how that's gonna help the other 49% though.
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  #186  
Old 03-16-2020, 05:01 PM
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Depending on how far mortgage rates fall, some people may be looking at financing/refinancing their homes...and taking a lot of equity out.

Particularly for those people whose retirement is mostly in a defined contribution plan...and not a solvent defined benefit plan.

A 70-80 year old that takes out a 30 year mortgage, uses the money to buy more stocks at the lowest level in years, or just have the cash as a buffer for uncovered medical expenses...might not be a bad option.

I, for one, have a lot of empathy right now for those who aren't fortunate enough to have a solid and well-funded...defined benefit plan.

Because the scary part is, that a lot of the old defined benefit plans are heavily invested in stocks...so as to maintain that defined benefit for retirees.

Here's hoping we all pull out of this in good shape...and soon.
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  #187  
Old 03-16-2020, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rustyp View Post
You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away and know when to run.


Ha, and therein lies the secret.
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  #188  
Old 03-16-2020, 05:51 PM
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For some time Buffet has been chastised for sitting on a large cash position. I have hung in there with him as an investor in BRK as he is a lot smarter than I am. It will be interesting to see if, when and what he buys.

IMHO the P/Es of the S&P and DJIA have been running quite high. They likely will dip below their historical 15ish average before they stop dropping.

We live in interesting times.
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  #189  
Old 03-16-2020, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdNoMore View Post
Depending on how far mortgage rates fall, some people may be looking at financing/refinancing their homes...and taking a lot of equity out.

Particularly for those people whose retirement is mostly in a defined contribution plan...and not a solvent defined benefit plan.

A 70-80 year old that takes out a 30 year mortgage, uses the money to buy more stocks at the lowest level in years, or just have the cash as a buffer for uncovered medical expenses...might not be a bad option.

I, for one, have a lot of empathy right now for those who aren't fortunate enough to have a solid and well-funded...defined benefit plan.

Because the scary part is, that a lot of the old defined benefit plans are heavily invested in stocks...so as to maintain that defined benefit for retirees.

Here's hoping we all pull out of this in good shape...and soon.
Don’t make the mistake of assuming defined benefit plans, which were questionably funded before the market crash and are typically invested very heavily in risky assets classes, will come out of this solvent. And also don’t assume the Pension Benefit Gurantee Corporation will have the capital to bail out multiple insolvent plans.
  #190  
Old 03-16-2020, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tophcfa View Post
Don’t make the mistake of assuming defined benefit plans, which were questionably funded before the market crash and are typically invested very heavily in risky assets classes, will come out of this solvent. And also don’t assume the Pension Benefit Gurantee Corporation will have the capital to bail out multiple insolvent plans.
That is why I took the cash equivalent in 2005 when I retired. But it takes discipline to manage that money. And of course once again I was the idiot per my peers ! Ha Ha. My sleep has never been better.
  #191  
Old 03-16-2020, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa View Post
Don’t make the mistake of assuming defined benefit plans, which were questionably funded before the market crash and are typically invested very heavily in risky assets classes, will come out of this solvent. And also don’t assume the Pension Benefit Gurantee Corporation will have the capital to bail out multiple insolvent plans.
That was actually the exact point...I was trying to make.

A lot of people who have defined benefit retirements, feel comfortable that at least they aren't watching their defined contribution plans losing massive amounts...while not fully understanding what funds those defined benefit plans.

And you're absolutely correct about not assuming that the PBGC... can't become insolvent.
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  #192  
Old 03-17-2020, 02:00 PM
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Many defined benefit plans (ok, the ones that still exist) have an option for a lump-sum payout at the outset of benefits, vs. depending upon the company to cover the pension over one's lifetime. The company's pension annuity payout is probably somewhat better than one could do on their own when purchasing an annuity in the outside market But, you can also use the lump sum for other investments, like IRAs.

I like my company, but do I think their pension is going to be solvent as long as I need it? No.
  #193  
Old 03-18-2020, 08:24 AM
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My company has (criminally) underfunded its retirement program for years - despite being a large government contractor who gets much of its defined benefit pension programs underwritten by the government in its defense contracts. I love the monthly checks, but I have a big concern about their ability to continue over the long run, as the actual funding of the program was underfunded by over $17 billion in 2018. Since then they have added some new funding, but obviously the current state of the investment world will have a further negative impact.
  #194  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:25 AM
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Is this a good time to sell gold and can you give reputable place to sell? Secondly did anyone hear of the possible withdrawal of up to $100,000 from our IRA's without paying taxes? A friend recently said she heard the latter is to happen soon.

Last edited by Enjoying Life; 03-26-2020 at 11:47 AM. Reason: spelling
  #195  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:33 AM
retiredguy123 retiredguy123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Enjoying Life View Post
Is this a good time to sell gold and can you give reputable place to sell? Secondly did anyone hear of the possible withdrawal of up to $100,000 from our IRA's without a tax penalty?
No, about the IRA. But, if you are over 59 1/2, you can withdraw any amount from a traditional IRA without a "penalty". You just need to pay tax on it.
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