[chuckinca]

Read recently that home values in California have dropped by over 1.3 Trillion Dollars since 12/05.

Across the US it must be 15 - 20 Trillion Bucks. Doubt that property taxes have dropped at all!

[ConeyIsBabe]

Peazoup........ we're in the same boat :'( Let's go sailing..........



I've already taken down my FSBO sign. Maybe next year :dontknow:

[Peazoup]

:dontknow:

[Boomer]

tkret,

Thanks for the link to the Business Week article. For several years, my subscription to Business Week was a part of the self-educating I was doing. I cut my teeth on Money and Kiplinger Personal Finance and later on [i]Smart Money, but Business Week became my favorite.

I like the style of writing in Business Week. For me the articles have enough depth while not going the esoteric route. I do not like reading stuff that makes me feel like my head is being pinched in a vise. You know what, I think I am going to re-up that Business Week subscription. I know I can read stuff online, but I still like an old fashioned magazine with writing style that works for me and with some great cover art from time to time.

Boomer

Addendum: If anybody is reading this, I apologize for having turned the whole :edit: :edit: thing to italics while trying to just fix some :edit: :edit: :edit: comma or something. I do not know why I insist upon trying to edit something after I have sent it. I will never, never learn. Oh well, I just wanted you to know that "Business Week" is good for me. OK. Maybe somebody else will like it, too. And I also want you to know that these :edit: :edit: :edit: italics are straight from Hell.

[ouma1938]

This has been a very interesting thread and even though its depressing me even more than I was before its good to get such a good overview of the state of the market. My for sale sign is still up and I am probably going to leave it up and keeping hoping. I am a real estate agent and listing the house myself so I am able to market it well and also get interesting feedback. We have found here, (Upstate SC) that houses in the $120,000 - $200,00 range are still selling, slowly but steadily, but anything above that has slowed to a crawl. And the higher the price the slower the crawl. I have noticed though that in the past couple of weeks there has been more activity, calls and emails on property in general so maybe by 2009 CIB and I will both be in TV!

[Boomer]

That price range, mentioned here by ouma1938, is interesting. A few days ago I had a conversation with a banker, nothing official. I was just chatting him up. It's what I do sometimes. I chat up bankers when I run into them. I know. It's weird. Anyway, I asked him if he was seeing investor interest in the single family homes market. He told me that there has been a small interest in single family homes that are not in the really high price range but are in decent neighborhoods.

I was asking the question because I cannot help but wonder where people who still have decent jobs but who sadly stepped flat-footed into this mess, for whatever reason, are going to find nice places to rent. And while they are renting, the market will surely start to get better and the investment in the single family rental would increase in value.

I have to stop myself when I start thinking like this. My real estate instinct for some reason has worked OK. But I have never been in it as an investor. Started with the first house long ago for $25,000 and here we are, 7 houses later, in a single-story house perfect for us empty nester boomers.

As soon as that cap gains tax law got oh so friendly, I started thinking about doing the downsize to capture keeping the change. I think about this stuff. Mr. Boomer swears I am thinking about selling whatever house when we are moving into it. He still likes me though.

But now that we are in our little geezer ranch that we really like and plan to keep, I have started thinking about where all those decent :edit: over people are going to rent when they do not have their houses anymore.

And I keep trying to talk myself down from this one. I know it's the thrill of the chase for me. And I do not need to even be thinking this way. But I have never seen such a market as this one. There are some nice homes out there. And there are some nice renters who need them. But I keep asking myself, "What's wrong with this picture?"

I know the standard advice against single-family rentals. And I know about the headaches associated with all rentals. But I keep thinking there is a timing in this. I normally like paper investments, but maybe it's time to get one that I can see and touch.

I can't help but think that this market is changing all the rules. But I also can't help but think that I just need to get over this. It is not the time of my life to start being somebody's landlord. Even if they are really nice renters. With jobs. But I just cannot help but think about it.

And I think I am putting all this stuff out there hoping that somebody in TOTVland will come in here and say that my thinking about the single-family rental market is pure lunacy and then that somebody will explain why and then that somebody will tell this old racehorse to just get herself right back in the barn.

Methinks me thinks too much.

Boomer

[tkret]

OK Boomer, take a gander at this opinion by Barry Ritholtz the CEO and Director for Equity Research for Fusion IQ, an independent research firm.

Slowing Foreclosures?
Posted by Barry Ritholtz on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 | 11:30 AM
in Credit | Data Analysis | Legal | Real Estate

Get ready for some more Housing bottom calls!

Thanks to some interesting regulations passed by New York, California, and Massachusetts, additional notice is required before initiating foreclosure procedures.

Hence, the defaults and repossessions procedures we woulod have seen begin in August and September wont show up until October and November.

Here is a an excerpt from the WSJ:

"When the research firm RealtyTrac Inc. releases its latest foreclosure report Thursday, don't be surprised if the number of filings declines again.

Last month, RealtyTrac reported that foreclosure filings totaled 252,363 in June, down 3% from the previous month. Some analysts are expecting the July data to show another decline or very little change.

If that happens, could the improvement be a sign that the foreclosure problem is ebbing? Probably not. The data may reflect several developments aimed at reducing foreclosures, including new state and municipal laws that put a temporary moratorium on foreclosures. Such laws are designed to give homeowners more time to work with their lenders and modify troubled loans. Some cynics say the laws are designed to give the appearance that the housing crisis is easing ahead of the November elections."

What are the new legislative rules for foreclosure notices ?

∙ California requires lenders to wait an additional 30 days after a homeowner misses the first payment before filing a default notice;

∙ Massachusetts now gives homeowners a three-months grace period after they default on their mortgage before the lender can file to foreclose. (The law is credited with an 84% drop in foreclosure petitions);

∙ New York which passed a bill last week that requires lenders to send a preforeclosure notice to certain borrowers at least 90 days before foreclosure proceedings may be initiated;

Of course, these notice requirements only delay the inevitable for the vast majority of foreclosures.

Expect more false bottom calls in the housing market of the next 90 days.

[villages07]

Hey Boomer,

If you're tempted to "invest" in real estate, why not buy a property in TV? You can rent it out for sure for at least 3-4 months a year, and use it yourself for vacations at other times of the year. While not the relative bargain that depressed markets in OH and other areas might be, a good investment nonetheless.

Just a thought.

[tkret]

Boomer,
IMHO Villages07 has an excellent idea here. I know that if I had money to invest in Real Estate I would most certainly consider TV. The rental market is in demand, the clients can be counted upon to be respectful of your property, and the upside potential in the future may be considerable. Great advice Villages07.

Originally Posted by villages07

Hey Boomer,

If you're tempted to "invest" in real estate, why not buy a property in TV? You can rent it out for sure for at least 3-4 months a year, and use it yourself for vacations at other times of the year. While not the relative bargain that depressed markets in OH and other areas might be, a good investment nonetheless.

Just a thought.

[Boomer]

I know V'07 and I think about that one, too. I just can't get past the hangup that if I have a second home, I don't want to rent it out. I am just weird about that. I want to be able to just show up whenever I feel like it. And besides, renters feel most like renting when owners feel like being there. But I will give it some more thought. I am tied to a project here for right now, too.

Also, the weather here in the Ohio Valley is completely spectacular. But just wait. When winter arrives, with its usual vengeance, I will no doubt wish that I had not been such a grasshopper. I am up here in Ohio, just rolling around in my green, green grass and looking up at my blue, blue sky. Ohhhhhhh, I am going to be so sorry. You will all mock me when you see the Boomermobile cruising through the neighborhoods and you see me get my pale, pale self out and go from door to door, dragging my golf clubs behind me, begging Villagers to take me in. I know. I know. But I just don't want to be a landlord there. I just want to hang out when I want to hang out. I just don't want to own to rent in TV. Boomer is a complicated woman sometimes. Probably Boomer just needs to be the renter there one more time and then figure it all out.

I think the decision to make TV your permanent home is so much easier than making the decision to buy a second home, especially one that you don't want to rent out.

And tkret,

Thanks for the last article, too. This mess is making me sick. Really. It's not good for any of us. It never should have happened. I could see it coming and I am but a bumpkin. Why couldn't our alleged leaders see it? I guess the lobbyists got in their way. I hate seeing so many decent Americans having their lives put on hold because of the unrestrained greed of a relative few.

The kind of property I might want to buy as a rental here in Ohio would not necessarily be a foreclosure but one that is on the market for a different reason. Like maybe somebody who has sense enough to move totally to TV or something. I do not want to be Boomer Trump or anything. I am thinking about just one. And I am not even thinking about a bottom price, but just a nice place at a price that I know is good. I would not make a good speculator. But investing is a little different in my dictionary.

I really need to get over this. Like I said, I cannot stay away from matters of real estate.

Boomer

Hey, I hit send and saw that tkret thinks I should buy rental in TV, too. Wow. This is taking a whole new turn. More to think about it seems. This is a little like what I was working through in that "Quest for the Dress" thing a couple of weeks ago, but this one has a much bigger price tag. And I don't think the answer will come to me as quickly.

But thanks for the insight. It helps.

(I do not know why I just can't be a normal retired person. :dontknow: Of course, why would I start being normal now?)

[villages07]

Hey Boomer,

F16 has a lovely lakefront house in KY (near Cincinnati) for sale...last night on chat he was offering it to MariaB and was ready to throw Sadie Mae into the deal (but, I'm sure he was just kidding).

[samhass]

Boomer, If I don't leave my drawers there, I can rent it out. I am referring of course to any personal effects. We do not rent out our Pa home because we have so much personal "stuff" there. We had emptied the Mallory home and then completely refurnished it. I have nothing personal there so it's ok to rent it out. When the market turns and we can recoup our investment, then we'll sell it. For you as a buyer, now is a great time. I almost said perfect, but who knows?
Stepford awaits you...step into the light!! ;D We love living here.

[nanci2539]

We were extremely fortunate to have sold our home in IL in less than three months. I'm convinced it was the brilliant marketing of our sales rep and how I staged my home.

I have friends who are dying to move here but they have to sell their home first. They need the funds from the sale to buy here. Withdrawing from their investments or 401k involves pentalities plus one couple still has a mortgage on their home so buying a home here and having two motgage payments will hurt them financially.

I think if you have the funds to do both, keep the house up north and buy a home here, that's a great way to go but if you need the funds from your existing home to buy a home in TV; you're pretty much stuck.

[Boomer]

Oh V'07 and Sam, Ladies of Stepford, I know. I know. And Sam, thanks for the tip on keeping track of my drawers.

Originally Posted by villages07

Hey Boomer,

F16 has a lovely lakefront house in KY (near Cincinnati) for sale...last night on chat he was offering it to MariaB and was ready to throw Sadie Mae into the deal (but, I'm sure he was just kidding).

And tell F16 for me that I know he would never throw in Sadie Mae. It is way too obvious to anybody who has ever seen the pictures on here, that the gorgeous redhead has F16 wrapped right around her paw. He's been had and he knows it.

Oh my, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and now Sadie Mae. All this talk of real estate is making my poor old Boomer head spin. (and I cannot seem to stop)

Peggy Sue Boomer

[Peachie]

Boomer, I think Sam has the type of setup that would make renting your home or villa in The Villages financially feasible. If you are out of state, it becomes more costly.... IMHO. It is not inexpensive, to say the least, owning two homes even if there are no mortgages involved. If you own in The Villages some of the expenses involved are: water, electric, perhaps gas, telephone, cable, taxes, bug control, lawn maintenance, weed pulling in the landscaping and trimming, exterior washing and perhaps painting, amenity fees, bond, (if applicable), maybe a savings acct for reshingling the roof because of shorter lifespan than northern roofs, insurances which would also have to cover renter liabilites and probably an umbrella policy to cover your personal assets and I may be missing other items. If you are out of state, you need to have someone to manage the property plus cleaning/replacement/repair expenses when the renter leaves. Then add the costs of owning your northern home. Mr Peachie and I very carefully weighed costs vs income and felt in the long run renting would help us pay for the cost of owning a second home but we could probably generate more income in investments. (We also don't like sharing our mattress and linens with others and we want to be here in February and March, not in a snowbank in Poedunk.) At this point in our lives, we want a little less responsibility and a little more time for pursuing interests we've never had time for previously. If villa rentals go to $4,000./mo prime season, we will rethink our current position, lol. Just another perspective...