[Irishmen]

Power to the people and TOTV

[drdodge]

I talked to the owner of Pooters at the square tonight and he told me that the owner told him to go ahead an install the artifiicialal grass that everything was ok
drd

[POOTERS]

ok. I hope everyone is comfortable because this might take a few minutes of your time up. I am the owner and operator of Pooters. And yes, that is the nickname of our son. However please dont be rude to others since alot of people just simple refer to us by that nickname. It is a common misconception that it is our last name and we have never corrected anyone and will answer to it if called. Anyway, I dont know why Irishmen apparently has it out for myself and my business but I would be more then happy to tell what happened. When the Florida legislature recently changed and added the Florida friendly provision we were called by a friend and told about it. in simply terms it states that an HOA cannot turn down a Florida friendly or water conservation landscape. No, artificial turf is not Florida friendly but it does fall under the water conservation part. That is what both a manufacturer of turf and a lawyer told us. That being said, we started offering the turf as an option instead of just doing putting greens. We were recommended by the landscaper to the homeowner once they found out that they wanted to remove the grub infested grass and put turf in. So we met with the the homeowners to give a bid. While there we measured everything out and tried to come up with several options for coverage of the grassy areas that would be a suitable cost for the homeowner. Once we agreed upon what was to be done. The homeowner stated that they had contracted to have the landscaping done and that they were going to go to the ARC review for her so since she already had the house plans for the main landscaping that the turf would need to be included with her submittle, since we do not do any ARC review submittles as per our contract. That has to be done by the homeowner is always that information we were given. The landscaper was contacted and asked to include the necessary information and she agreed. We set a date a couple of weeks out so as to leave sufficient time for approvals and the main landscaping to be done. When we called to check in with the homeowner prior to installation, she said that the landscapers were installing their part at that time. now this is that part that I will claim fault in. We assumed that since the landscaping was being installed and when we asked the landscaper she said that everything was ok, we took her at her word and then proceeded with the job. The job was done and the homeonwer was happy. No, there is not any ridges or overlapping. Dont know what some of the other posts are refering to but yes there is a seam. That seam is what will take time and weather to disguise. It already looks better then when installed. but I will admit that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and what looks good to some may notlook good to others. So I will not argue that some people might not like to see the seam. There is actually 4 or 5 seams on the entire job, and there is only one that apparently some people are offended by.
Anyway, once the homeowner received a notification from the Villages, they contacted us and we contacted several people to question the reasoning. We were told that there was apparently NEVER any ARC review submittly for anypart of the landscaping or turf, and that the homeowner needed to do that. So I met with the homeowner provided samples and anything else that I could to them to help them at that point. And then we waited to hear back from the homewner as to what the ARC review board had to say. Apparently the homeonwers could not get ahold of the landscaper to get the necessary lists from them and ended up having to go out of town. So while gone they received a phone call from the Villages and set up an appointment once they returned home to meet what I thought was the board. The homeowner contacted us and we went with them to the meeting with samples and scientific data with regards to the drainage amounts of the turf(which we were told was the reason they didn't like the turf, ITS INABILLITY TO DRAIN SUFFICIENTLY, do you think 315+/- gallons an hour is sufficient?) as well of pictures of yards in the Villages were FULL yards had been done with multiple colored landscaping rock(also not a FLorida Friendly landscaping materials)(But does fall under the water conservation part). We knew nothing of the individual deeds that homeowners agreed to, but knew that Not all yards ( and I mean ranch homes) have sod. Supposably turf is not an approved material unless it is used for small putting greens in the rear of homes. (EVEn though I have seen some in the front yards) and NO we did not do the installs... Finally, I guess I would just like to let everyone know that we are actively trying to find a buyer for the turf in the yard. And are trying to help this homeowner out.
Also, yes, we may be a small company but we have our own crew of local people whom all take pride in what they do for a living. We have NEVER knowingly or with any intention given out false information to a detriment to our customers. We recognize that you can't make everyone happy but we try too. And we also acknowledge that not every contractor/business out there has good intentions but we have proudly served that Villagers since 1999. And will continue too for as long as they allow us to.

thank you for reading this and giving us the oppurtunity to correct the misconceptions that some had with regards to us taking advantage of someone. I will admit that supoporting each other is a wonderful thing, and being able to openly listen to both sides of the story is in my book even better.

And special thanks to our friend that told us about this post/blog tonight so that we could have a chance to comment. We didn't know anything about this site until tonight at the square, and would not have posted anything wioth regards to questions and answers if not for them.

As for Irishmen, I do not know how we have affended you, but we apologize if we did. I saw that you posted a comment in May with regards to a estimate we gave you, but I am glad that you were helped with your needs even if it wasn't through our company. Although, I have to say that we have never had the attitude you stated with regards to the villages, I have worked out there as both an a/c tech with a local company and then as a business owner myself, I respect the people, employees, and the entity of The Villages.

Thank you everyone-
The owners of Pooters

[nitehawk]

Potters -- If I were on a jury and that was your "summation" ------------- Guilty as charged

[villages07]

Pooters....thanks for taking the time to explain.

Hindsight is 20/20 and the homeowner is ultimately responsible for authorizing the work to proceed, but..... something as radical as putting artificial turf in an entire front yard should have set off some bells and alarms. You, as a contractor, probably should have checked with the Villages ARC/Deed Compliance folks on a matter of general principle to see if this type of project would be acceptable before you ever offered it as a service.

Personally, I agree with the covenants and think the turf yard looks out of place in a 'natural' grass designer neighborhood.

[Irishmen]

First of all Pooter we on this forum have nothing against you or your company. This is not personal. It's business. This forum is for residents and others to express ideas and tell about experiences good or bad so others may either benefit from the good or be saved from having huge costly mistakes. You have a great personality and Would enjoy having a beer or two with you. However, once you plant your flag, you open yourself to any criticism or praise due you.

Back in May, We met you on the Square in Lake Sumter. Remember, standing on one foot like a pelican and closing your eyes and trying to make a putt? It was entertaining. We commend you for coming here to give your side.
You must also remember when I asked you about artificial grass and if The Villages approved, you put your arm around me and said" Yes I have state law that says they cant say no and With a little nudging The Villages will approve especially if you did the job.
So as I do with everything, I started doing research. I spent hours on the Internet and on the phone asking questions. I had seen this product in AZ, Vegas, California, and even Austalia. It always looked good. Heck it took me 2months to decide on a flat screen. It drives my wife nuts.
In this process, I had 2 other companies from Orlando come up and they both told me artificial grass was not allowed in front yards because deed restrictions prohibited it. I thought How could a guy being in business since 1999 in The Villages say yes but 2 companies from outside the area say no? That was first red flag. The second was these companies had references in The Villages and was glad to provide them. You said because of privacy issues, you couldn't tell provide any reference for artificial grass or putting greens.
So I didnt take the word of a mfg or lawyer, I went diectly to The Villages and there was no ambiguity in this matter. No But Pooters said I could. They said Putting Greens are allowed but only in back. Hmmmmm.
So I get back in Mid August and a golfing buddy of mine who lives In Duval says artificial grass must be approved cause we have a neighbor who has it. He knew I would be interested. I was thrilled and excited and looking foward into getting rid of our crappy grass.
I drive over to Little Mountain Loop and was horrified. This yard was terrible and I hadnt seen or from any pictures of yards done with these unsightly ridges and lines. I was thinking mfg defect so I had another friend who owns the largest office maintenance company in NYC go back over there. What he found and took pictures of was disturbing news to me. This carpet was overlapped with other carpet and just nailed down. No attempt to seam properly. I have close-up pictures if I can figure out How to post them that shows grass laying on top of other grass. Not beside each other but on top. All the pieces are like that. You say the homewoner was happy but once they know the real details I bet their going to be furious. They just believed your explanation. Pooter its obvious that either you don't know what your doing when it comes to grass or putting greens or you don't care about the homeowner. Pavers you are the best. Grass no. Pictures are the smoking gun.
So your blatant deception to the unsuspecting homeowner about "it will take time and weather to disguise" is a complete falsehood. The unsightly appearance is there forever. How on one hand can you say the carpet has a 10 year warranty against UV fade and on the other hand say weathering will make the ridges go away. Do you see why we are upset? I will post these pictures as soon as I can figure how to transfer from the phone.
To further the issue, the neighbor next door comes out and says The Villages is making them take the grass out. Are you kidding me? Who did the job and the neighbor says a company called Pooters. They didnt say so and so landsacaping. They said you. I suddenly remember our conversation and couldn't stay on the sidelines as there probably were more homeowners put in this position by Pooters. Unbelievable.
Any credible company knows that they can submit a signed arc review with all the details for the homeowner and even pick up the approval for the homeowner so your comment that is further red flags on what is going on here. The homewoner is the only one that can submit. Really? You have been in The Villages since 1999?You knew it was wrong but did it anyway. You assisted in this homeowner demise although we recognize the homeowner must take resposibility as well.

Maybe what we should do is have the homeowner come on here as well.

What is the right thing to do?
Give the homeowner back the money you assisted in deceivingly taken because you knew better and to take up the carpet at no expense to homeowner. You cant look the other way in this matter.
We forgive and we can all learn from this process. However, Don't put this all on the landscaper or the homowner.
Do the right thing Pooter. It will pay dividends down the road if you make it right.
Once again your a great guy and understand your a family man running a small business. Wish you the best of luck.

[Russ_Boston]

First my apologies to Regor since he/she must have been mislead by Pooters that it was their last name. (Although Regor says it was a friend so not so sure why a friend wouldn't know the truth).

And for any company doing landscape work of ANY type in the Villages to not know that something this different would need ARC approval is beyond belief. I'm glad that they are trying to rectify but this must be a nightmare for the homeowner. I would doubt that any of the over 10 thousand viewers to TOTV would ever trust this company at this point. In today's connected world (Facebook, twitter, TOTV) you have to know that word gets around.

Pooter - If I were you I would go out of my way to not only remove the offending turf (at any cost to you) but also to hire (at your cost again) a zero use landscape specialist for the homeowner to get them to the lowest environmental cost of their yard as was their desire. Heck you have $8500 to use for this purpose.

[POOTERS]

While I admit that ignorarance is not an excuse. I will say that we had already seen other peoples yards with turf in them. Had spoken with homeowners and unfortunately was going off the assumption that Village owners had already had this done before and that the landscaper had it approved. We dont just work in the villages and every area is different. But please be sure that we are trying to help this homeowner out and not everyone who does work for people in the villages is out to take advantage of homeowners. Yes this is a learning experience but we don't like it when people aren't happy. As I said before. We don't just work in the villages and we are allowed to use this product else where apparently. But as a contractor we have to be able to trust that other people are doing what they say they will do and that the homeowners know there individual deeds. That being said. This homeowner was like us and was under the assumption that everything was ok and approved.

[Irishmen]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

First my apologies to Regor since he/she must have been mislead by Pooters that it was their last name. (Although Regor says it was a friend so not so sure why a friend wouldn't know the truth).

And for any company doing landscape work of ANY type in the Villages to not know that something this different would need ARC approval is beyond belief. I'm glad that they are trying to rectify but this must be a nightmare for the homeowner. I would doubt that any of the over 10 thousand viewers to TOTV would ever trust this company at this point. In today's connected world (Facebook, twitter, TOTV) you have to know that word gets around.

Pooter - If I were you I would go out of my way to not only remove the offending turf (at any cost to you) but also to hire (at your cost again) a zero use landscape specialist for the homeowner to get them to the lowest environmental cost of their yard as was their desire. Heck you have $8500 to use for this purpose.

I would say since the homeowner had crummy grass in the first place and most likely would have had to replace it, the homeowner should pay to have new sod installed. Pooter should also deduct from any refund cost of removing original sod since the homeowner would have had to do that anyway.
On a side note, we know a CYV friend who wanted to extend his Lanai all the way to the fence not observing a setback. T&D Concrete would not honor homeowner wishes to ignore setback rules.

[Regor]

I called Pooter a friend because he is a friend. I know him, talk to him once or twice a week, know something about his family and what he does for fun. I assumed the name Pooter was his nickname or something. But the point is, the statement that graciegirl made about a name "Sounding nasty", was in my mind in bad taste.

Russ made the statement "Heck you have $8500 to use for this purpose", I would imagine that out of that $8500, that Pooter had expenses for stuff like the turf, wages, equipment, etc.

[POOTERS]

Ok. I am not going to and have no wish to argue with anyone. I only posted a response so that concerned friends and neighbors would know that we are not a fly by night company. We ate still here and doing what we can for the homeowner. We just wanted to let people know that as in any business we have had complaints and we do everything to rectify the problems. I love my job and going what I do for a living. The people experience alone has made me a better person. I have been here since 1999. And plan to continue being here. We are and will work with the homeowner. We haven't ignored this issue. But please respect that the only reason I said anything is that the Lynchmob and misinformation was more then I was going to ignore. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I understand that, would never disagree that youbhave a right to post your opinions on how you feel about things. Just please let us do what we can for the homeowner and not crucify us in the mean time. Thank you.

[Snowbirdtobe]

If the homeowner went to Home Depot and got a roadside crew to do the job then the homeowner would be entirely responsible.
The homeowner went to supposed experts to have the work done and was screwed by these experts.
Washing your hands and trying to shift the responsibility to others will only cause more negative comments to be posted on the internet.
Long rambling and disjointed justifications will increase the interest in the thread.
Get some marketing advice from an internet expert on how to address a marketing disaster on the internet.
A unique name will make the search easier to see the online reputation that you have acquired.
If Florida friendly landscaping allows turf than let the the process go forward with the deed compliance people and have the turf industry support both of you through the court process. There are 40,000 homes in TV that are potential customers.

[paulandjean]

Good luck Pooters, Seems you have explained to my satisfaction. Did not see that you did anything wrong.There are far to many people here who jump at first reaction.Sometimes act like first-graders,name calling and all.I have no problem.

[graciegirl]

Most contractors who get top commendations from posters here on TOTV repeatedly, are those landscapers and builders who know the deed restrictions and make the application to the Architectural Review Committee themselves.

I think that Pooters should refund the money, take up the turf and start over, thereby gaining a ton of good will on this very important forum.

And that is only my opinion...... Which because I am old and stubborn, I am entitled to and if someone gives me a better argument...which could happen, I will change my mind...because I am also a woman.

[EdV]

Originally Posted by Snowbirdtobe

.....If Florida friendly landscaping allows turf than let the the process go forward with the deed compliance people and have the turf industry support both of you through the court process. There are 40,000 homes in TV that are potential customers....

According to this article The Florida-Friendly Landscaping™ Program does not consider artificial turf to be a Florida-Friendly product.