[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by Aces4

“Anthony Fauci said on Sunday that he was horrified to hear the crowd at a conservative gathering this weekend cheering anti-vaccination comments.


It was Fauci’s indignation at that political gathering giving vaccines a thumbs down. But the largest audience witnessing thumbs down came the night that question was asked during a debate which millions were watching and the answer was no. Hard to backtrack after that.

But as many have said, and common sense, things changed daily with the proceedings of handling of this virus....mask- no mask, distance, droplets. He's not a God, nor pretends to be....they found info and put it out there. It was ever evolving...sorry you can't open your mind, but just criticize.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62

But as many have said, and common sense, things changed daily with the proceedings of handling of this virus....mask- no mask, distance, droplets. He's not a God, nor pretends to be....they found info and put it out there. It was ever evolving...sorry you can't open your mind, but just criticize.

Ah, watching Fauci horrified at that rather small meeting vs a huge public televised venue knocking the vaccine and Fauci not immediately reproaching that statement was not my doing. You don’t have to be political to know what would have been the proper response, do you?

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Thank you for the correction, I thought it was a previous rally - my bad.

I checked and see what you are saying is true.

I guess I still say, that is not political, he would have expressed outrage at any gathering promoting not getting vacinated. Regardless of political leaning. I guess I think as a leading expert in viral infections I would expect nothing less of him.

In fact, to make this a little political, I was dismayed last year when he was standing beside then President Trump and supporting the Presidents positions on the virus. At that point he was a "hero", once he started not supporting the president he became a villain.

At least that is how it seems to me.

Oh we all know the reasoning behind all that, remember Dr Birk (sp) on 60minutes and many other news shows, the pressure to lie from T

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Ah, watching Fauci horrified at that rather small meeting vs a huge public televised venue knocking the vaccine and Fauci not immediately reproaching that statement was not my doing. You don’t have to be political to know what would have been the proper response, do you?

What I'm saying is...one meeting was way back in the beginning, maybe jan2020, or earlier, the recent booers was only days ago. (Unless we are not referencing the same thing)

[Seamus6]

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62

Please.......first, one only wishes they could be as smart.
2) he has had nothing but pushback from people w/o brains and
3) the people that can't get out of their own way...well most likely won't be around if they catch the delta strain. They had every chance to help themselves, they put their cause in front of their own health, or future....I don't get it.
I will agree there was a extremely small amount of risk by vaccinating, but I truly believe we are going to see allot of sickness and death very very soon.
Sorry folks...there were no chips inside, no tracers, Bill Gates is not involved in a conspiracy...it was/is a horrendous pandemic and we have a 99% fix.
We were lead to the water....now drink

Bill Gates was probably involved in many conspiracies...just not this particular one!

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62

What I'm saying is...one meeting was way back in the beginning, maybe jan2020, or earlier, the recent booers was only days ago. (Unless we are not referencing the same thing)

...booing now to a few or booing earlier from a position of power to the throngs when the vaccine was ready to be administered.

It is what it is and I didn’t really care to go there until one-sided info was provided by a poster.

[petiteone]

Originally Posted by billethkid

It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?

The difference is that someone smoking in designated smoking areas, or not wearing a seat belt isn't going to kill me. An unvaccinated person in public can. Public Health is paramount. I grew up pre-polio vaccine American and people were lined up as if it was a patriotic event in 1955/1956 to get the Salk Vaccine.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by petiteone

The difference is that someone smoking in designated smoking areas, or not wearing a seat belt isn't going to kill me. An unvaccinated person in public can. Public Health is paramount. I grew up pre-polio vaccine American and people were lined up as if it was a patriotic event in 1955/1956 to get the Salk Vaccine.

I agree with what you are saying. The problem is with all the comparisons is that the vaccine - unlike seat belts - could possibly have very negative side effects. I personally don't think it will. I personally think the scientists will do everything they can to prevent that - but, it is possible.

And I sometimes have second thoughts about the scientists working for big pharma, and if their motivations are as pure as I hope they are.

So, for those that feel the vaccine is potentially more dangerous than it is helpful and are not taking the risk. I can understand. I disagree but understand.

I can see a time approaching when the decision will be taken out of their hands. When the government will have to step in and mandate vaccinations. I hope not, but it looks inevitible. And that will be a major poltical shat storm.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I agree with what you are saying. The problem is with all the comparisons is that the vaccine - unlike seat belts - could possibly have very negative side effects. I personally don't think it will. I personally think the scientists will do everything they can to prevent that - but, it is possible.

And I sometimes have second thoughts about the scientists working for big pharma, and if their motivations are as pure as I hope they are.

So, for those that feel the vaccine is potentially more dangerous than it is helpful and are not taking the risk. I can understand. I disagree but understand.

I can see a time approaching when the decision will be taken out of their hands. When the government will have to step in and mandate vaccinations. I hope not, but it looks inevitible. And that will be a major poltical shat storm.

That is called tyranny and let’s hope that sh** never hits the fan.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by charmed59

The Delta variant may be the way this pandemic ends. It spreads so fast everyone will soon come in contact with it. If they are immune it won’t take root. If they aren’t they will catch it. If they recover they too will be immune.

So the only choice is how you chose to be immune, get vaccinated and almost assuredly get immunity. Or catch it and almost assuredly get immunity.

Or die.

[fishon]

If the vaccine works you have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated people.
Do you know that the vaccine doesn’t work?
Or is it that you enjoy your fearfulness?

[Marty94]

Originally Posted by billethkid

It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?

Your original question asked, “Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?”

First, let me preface by saying that my husband, who currently practices medicine, and I received our vaccines as soon as they were offered. We did so as my husband saw the affects of this disease, both short term and long term. We encouraged our family members to do the same and most did, but a few still have not. This is their choice. It was my brother’s choice and he died and it still has not persuaded the others to reconsider. Statistics and spikes and news reporting simply won’t change their minds. You didn’t ask that question though, you asked if the death rate is acceptable.

As a society, we have become somewhat conditioned to acceptable levels of death. “Annual deaths from diseases such as influenza — which before the pandemic killed between one-quarter of a million and half a million people each year globally — offer a barometer.” How many COVID deaths are acceptable in a post-pandemic world? - Vaccine Safety Info As this article points out, there are many factors that will determine what is acceptable, whether a person is vaccinated or not. Covid is going to be around for some time and how we go forward is important. Perhaps by reporting Covid numbers, news outlets believe they can convince folks to get vaccinated and that’s why they continue to do so. As for my family and friends who have decided not to get the vaccine, it makes no difference.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by fishon

If the vaccine works you have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated people.
Do you know that the vaccine doesn’t work?
Or is it that you enjoy your fearfulness?

So does it follow that Un-vaccinated have nothing to fear........ but other un-vaccinated?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by fishon

If the vaccine works you have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated people.
Do you know that the vaccine doesn’t work?
Or is it that you enjoy your fearfulness?

Uh, no, this is not true.

If enough people are not vaccinated, then the virus thrives, and as it thrives it mutates, and when it mutates it can take on a new form that is not affected by the vaccination. So, no, if I am vaccinated, I am mostly (nothing is 100%) immune from the current variant of the virus, but if enough do not get vaccinated that puts my life at risk.

And, I am sorry that so many feel that anyone that disagrees with them is "fearful". I grow tired of this silliness. It is possible to be cautious without fear. I do not worry about having an accident every time I get into a car, but I make sure my brakes are in good order and wear a seat belt. Life is full of dangers - taking reasonable precautions does not imply fear is driving the decisions.

[Bonnevie]

Originally Posted by Becca9800

Well of course, no one would want that to happen to any child.

Were the kids in ICU under 12? Couldn't have had the vaccine in any event, they don't qualify if under 12 yo. The article also doesn't discuss the kids health histories. Are these cases where the kid has significant co-morbidities? We're all too well aware that those w co-morbidities were THE most vulnerable with the first wave of C19? Is there reason yet to believe this isn't the case w this latest wave?

I've read several articles who cite studies that show while this Delta variant is more contagious, it is not more deadly.

As with covid from the start, with people pointing out that most won't die from it, it's moot if you are one of the unlucky ones.

as long as those eligible for the vaccine refuse to get it, the Delta variant will spread and because more people will get it, a percentage of those will get very sick and some will die. in the process, Delta may mutate to another form that is even more readily transmissible and possibly more deadly. A virus wants to continue to live and will find ways of doing it. as others point out, polio, small pox, chicken pox, measles all still exist but enough people got vaccinated that the virus died from lack of hosts.

and for those people who choose not to get vaccinated, I wonder how many are still wearing a mask. I would guess most don't because how can you check?