[LianneMigiano]

Food for thought for anti-vaxers..... If the schools have to close again what will they do for day care? All those two-family earners with young children will be unemployed again - just when so many states are doing away with enhanced unemployment benefits!

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Now that is a POLITICAL POST!

Not any more than that other guy pointing out Fauci’s horror at a “ conservative gatherings”. I simply pointed out the start of the whole public anti vaccine statements vs that other poster’s political posturing.

Surely you can see it’s not political.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Byte1

To preface my comment, I have my shots. That said, I do NOT encourage or discourage anyone from getting the vaccination. The reason I refuse to encourage my children and grandkids/great grandkids to get vaccinated with this vaccine is that I am NOT totally positive that there are not some possible negative side effects that may occur several years from now. I just do not know and they can not give us guarantees. I doubt I would believe them if they did. You can give me tons of subject matter to study, but the ONLY way one is to get true, historical facts is after a period of time. Since my children and grandchildren have had the virus (most of them) and have survived with little effort, hardly more than suffering a cold, I do not see the harm of them refusing the vaccination. If they get it, so be it. I will not discourage them from getting the shots. My opinion is that children should not be given the vaccination until we are sure it is essential. Yes, I understand there was much research and testing. BUT, I would feel much better after we have the results of the vaccinations after a decade or two to be sure something as serious as sterility or other forms of disease are not cased as a side effect.
Don't get me wrong, the vaccination HAS been a miracle and has saved probably millions of lives in the world. Would I have gotten the vaccination if not for my spouse's medical condition? Maybe not. Am I glad I did get my shots? So far, yes.
To summarize, the reason I will not encourage or discourage anyone to get the shot is that I do not want to be responsible for the guilt I would feel if I was instrumental in a bad reaction or permanent damage caused by the vaccine.

Very good post, thank you.

Two things, not to argue but expand on what you say.

1. There will never be a guarantee. There was only be a reason to believe it is better than the alternative. I don't believe there is a single medication that is without side effects - and sometimes those side effects seem worse than the issue the medication is supposed to treat.

2. Time - I am not a doctor or medical researcher, I am not aware of what methods are available to predict long-term effects. I know in the computer industry. And long term reliability is a crucial component of total product life cycle costs for companies (it should be for people too, but most people impulse buy) There are numerous methods to do accelerated aging and to determine probably or expected component failures. Since the healthcare industry deals with people's lives and has a history of "oh darns" (Thalidomide among others) I would be amazed if they don't also have methodologies that allow for accelerated long-term outcome prediction.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Rosebud1949

Why cant folk see that if we are all vaccinated the virus has no host to infect, pass on to others and possibly kill. How can you take that risk with family and loved ones. Insurance Co. may decided NOT to pay for hospitalizations for Covid and Varients. They may charge additional fees for those not fully vaccinated.

Why should Doctors and Nurses have to treat those who flaunt their "non vaccinated" attitude. I know its their job, but these non vaccinated folk wont help themselves, and just keep spreading it.

I don’t believe it will ever be eradicated. They are now looking into the possibility of another booster shot for the original vaccinations. It will just go on and on like influenza and probably keep morphing the same way.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Rosebud1949

Why cant folk see that if we are all vaccinated the virus has no host to infect, pass on to others and possibly kill.

That is a good point, but I think an even more important point is that the longer the virus is free to spread, it is also mutating (slower spread results in slower mutation rate) and the more mutations there are the more likely a WORSE variant will appear that the vaccines will not be effective against. And we have to start all over again.

And the economy will not withstand too many more shutdowns.

Why should Doctors and Nurses have to treat those who flaunt their "non vaccinated" attitude. I know its their job, but these non vaccinated folk wont help themselves, and just keep spreading it.

Well, please understand I am posting the next partially "tongue in cheek", but many of those (not all) that refuse vaccinations also disagree with paying for healthcare for obese people, or at least believe health insurance companies should charge premiums to people that smoke, overweight, etc, etc.

So, what if hospitals refused to treat people COVID that were not vacinated?

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by nick demis

If you want to get vaccinated, do if, if not, don't. It has gotten to the point of, "who cares". What ever happened to the, "you mind your business and I'll mind mine".

Things have changed, this varient is a different animal, increasing numbers of children are ending up infected, in the hospital, on vents and dying. This is just the beginning.

Those closest to them are now besides themselves for not protecting their children from themselves.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Not any more than that other guy pointing out Fauci’s horror at a “ conservative gatherings”. I simply pointed out the start of the whole public anti vaccine statements vs that other poster’s political posturing.

Surely you can see it’s not political.

See it wasn't the gathering, or that they were conservatives, it was the lack of precautions taken to prevent infections.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

See it wasn't the gathering, or that they were conservatives, it was the lack of precautions taken to prevent infections.

“Anthony Fauci said on Sunday that he was horrified to hear the crowd at a conservative gathering this weekend cheering anti-vaccination comments.


It was Fauci’s indignation at that political gathering giving vaccines a thumbs down. But the largest audience witnessing thumbs down came the night that question was asked during a debate which millions were watching and the answer was no. Hard to backtrack after that.

[Dana1963]

Originally Posted by billethkid

It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?

Only 15,000+ Covid cases reported by Florida 7/13/2021
"The state is reporting daily cases close to four times the national average...the second-highest number in the country. The state’s latest covid-19 death rate is almost double the national figure."

[Byte1]

I want to apologize for getting sidetracked on my recent post from the subject. It is easy to do when there are many other posters, with their own ideas.
I believe the subject of this thread was in regards to a "spike" in COVID infections? IMO the infection count is not as important as the stats on COVID related hospitalizations and especially COVID related deaths. Wasn't the ambition of the vaccinations aimed at lowering deaths and hospitalizations? Was there any guarantee that the vaccine would eliminate positive test results? No. The flu shot does not eliminate the FLU, it makes infections less dangerous for the vaccinated, right?
Stats show that the vaccinations OR weakening of the virus OR the rising immunity have resulted in less COVID related deaths. Sorry, I am not providing a "link" to such stats, but everyone here seems to have their own preference as to where the information must originate in order to pass their muster.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I don’t believe it will ever be eradicated. They are now looking into the possibility of another booster shot for the original vaccinations. It will just go on and on like influenza and probably keep morphing the same way.

Last I heard, the CDC () said that a booster is not necessary. Did that change again?

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Last I heard, the CDC () said that a booster is not necessary. Did that change again?

Yeah, it was a sound byte on the news yesterday. I don’t get why that would be funny but if boosters do it for you, go for it.


CNN Friday stated that Pfizer has seen waning efficacy in immunity and third dose may be necessary 6-12 months after vaccination.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Yeah, it was a sound byte on the news yesterday. I don’t get why that would be funny but if boosters do it for you, go for it.


CNN Friday stated that Pfizer has seen waning efficacy in immunity and third dose may be necessary 6-12 months after vaccination.

Sorry, the laughing emoji was supposed to be associated with the current reputation that the CDC has in the public eye/news by many Americans. We have received so much "evolved" changes in their directives that many find it difficult to grant them the credibility or respect that I am sure they deserve.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I don’t believe it will ever be eradicated. They are now looking into the possibility of another booster shot for the original vaccinations. It will just go on and on like influenza and probably keep morphing the same way.

The chances are you are right. It will not be easy. Smallpox, Polio, etc, are not eradicated, but are "controlled".

The Influenza virus is not eradicated and is related to the corona virus. To eradicate it would require massive mandatory vaccinations worldwide. And they would have to address all current variants and would have to be distributed faster than the virus could mutate.

Not a likely outcome.

So, we are likely entering into an era of cyclic profit for the vaccine companies where we get vaccinations every year for this year's variant.

Of course, the problem is we don't know if that will slow COVID as effectively as it does the seasonal flu.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Sorry, the laughing emoji was supposed to be associated with the current reputation that the CDC has in the public eye/news by many Americans. We have received so much "evolved" changes in their directives that many find it difficult to grant them the credibility or respect that I am sure they deserve.

Ah, I agree that makes sense.