Hydroxychloroquine rated 'most effective therapy' by doctors for coronavirus: Global

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  #61  
Old 04-07-2020, 01:44 AM
JimJohnson JimJohnson is offline
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Unproven, think twice post once, please. Unproven
  #62  
Old 04-07-2020, 03:48 AM
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I find it ironic that people that will flock to chemo and radiation for cancers will be resistant to using this medication if quickly deteriorating health conditions warrant the use. SOMETIMES TAKING THE "RISK" IS OF BENEFIT! Both Chemo AND Radiation are POISONS we introduce to a body in hopes of killing ONLY the bad stuff. OBVIOUSLY they have NO idea how many drugs you take for various medical conditions have "serious risks", the difference being with some medical conditions you die more slowly and with less pain/suffering. If a member of my family was headed south quickly with this virus, I would BEG for this drug therapy to try and stop the progress of them drowning on dry land in their own body fluids! Go to Youtube and search people dying of corona virus....

How many lives have antibiotics saved over the years....and yet, there IS that population where antibiotics are something an individuals body reacts adversely to, to the point of anaphylactic reaction being life threatening??? Do we throw the "baby out with the bath water" because SOME people have a problem processing this particular medication?

EVERYONE eventually dies...NONE of us get out of this alive, but dear God please let it be quick and painless vs panicked, suffering and in pain

Last edited by Koapaka; 04-07-2020 at 03:56 AM.
  #63  
Old 04-07-2020, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Koapaka View Post
I find it ironic that people that will flock to chemo and radiation for cancers will be resistant to using this medication if quickly deteriorating health conditions warrant the use. SOMETIMES TAKING THE "RISK" IS OF BENEFIT! Both Chemo AND Radiation are POISONS we introduce to a body in hopes of killing ONLY the bad stuff. OBVIOUSLY they have NO idea how many drugs you take for various medical conditions have "serious risks", the difference being with some medical conditions you die more slowly and with less pain/suffering. If a member of my family was headed south quickly with this virus, I would BEG for this drug therapy to try and stop the progress of them drowning on dry land in their own body fluids! Go to Youtube and search people dying of corona virus....

How many lives have antibiotics saved over the years....and yet, there IS that population where antibiotics are something an individuals body reacts adversely to, to the point of anaphylactic reaction being life threatening??? Do we throw the "baby out with the bath water" because SOME people have a problem processing this particular medication?

EVERYONE eventually dies...NONE of us get out of this alive, but dear God please let it be quick and painless vs panicked, suffering and in pain

I read your post with interest and took offense to the phrase "people will flock to chemo and radiation for cancer". I have often heard chemo and radiation derided by people who support alternative medicine. I hope no one ever hesitates when an oncologists prescribes chemo and radiation for cancer. Tough as it is, it IS what we have now to combat many forms of cancer.

I think everyone is hoping that the Choroquine and z-pack will work. I think the problem with many posts on this thread is that they are only opinions and they try to back up these opinions with isolated anecdotal information. I think what people are resisting is the form of the message. Many posters are "preaching" instead of sharing and many are arguing with the two people on this forum who post who have medical degrees. Not only that but the tone of some posts is to "talk down" to others when It is obvious to many that some posters have no authority whatsoever to pontificate on this subject.

I think if a person has a medical background than their opinion is more valid.

Of course we would be willing to take our chances in a situation such as this. That to me isn't the issue. It is having half baked information thrown at me by know it alls…..every day and every day.
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  #64  
Old 04-07-2020, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
I think if a person has a medical background than their opinion is more valid.
So confusing! I'm not posting my opinions, I am posting news reports that quote actual Doctors treating actual coronavirus patients. Their opinions, not mine.

Also lots of comments saying these are scary drugs, you can die if you take them! We know millions and millions of people have taken these drugs all over the world for many years but no news stories of 1000s of deaths even before coronavirus. Doctors know how to prescribe them safely.

We know only Doctors can prescribe these drugs, so why is there currently a worldwide shortage of them? Must be a ton of Doctors all over the world prescribing them. Maybe they are all "Fox News contributors" ??
  #65  
Old 04-07-2020, 07:15 AM
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So confusing! I'm not posting my opinions, I am posting news reports that quote actual Doctors treating actual coronavirus patients. Their opinions, not mine.

Also lots of comments saying these are scary drugs, you can die if you take them! We know millions and millions of people have taken these drugs all over the world for many years but no news stories of 1000s of deaths even before coronavirus. Doctors know how to prescribe them safely.

We know only Doctors can prescribe these drugs, so why is there currently a worldwide shortage of them? Must be a ton of Doctors all over the world prescribing them. Maybe they are all "Fox News contributors" ??
Even a local Florida pharmacist in Orange county ...one that "makes pills", I can't think of the name of that kind, he said that he had "bought up" a good supply of Chloroquine several weeks ago, when the president first mentioned it. I don't understand your reference to Fox News contributors. Do they hoard Chloroquine? I didn't "get" that at all.
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  #66  
Old 04-07-2020, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
Even a local Florida pharmacist in Orange county ...one that "makes pills", I can't think of the name of that kind, he said that he had "bought up" a good supply of Chloroquine several weeks ago, when the president first mentioned it. I don't understand your reference to Fox News contributors. Do they hoard Chloroquine? I didn't "get" that at all.
That was a little joke for Blueash, who called one of the Doctors I linked to above a Fox News contributor. I have read reports that pharmacies were told to stop filling prescriptions by Doctors who were prescribing it for themselves and their families. I doubt that is causing a shortage. Its likely caused by Doctors all over the world prescribing it for coronavirus patients combined with Doctors who were already prescribing it for malaria, lupus, arthritis etc. I know India has now banned export of the drug from their manufacturers.
  #67  
Old 04-07-2020, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Marvic 1 View Post
"Hydroxychloroquine"
What-do-you-have-to-lose!
Strong logical words that some do not like to hear including certain media outlets.....
I don't think people understand that it is already being used in these patients. a recovered patient was on TV last evening who said he was on it and a z-pack, and an antiviral....

I think the experts are just suggesting it isn't a sure all cure....it may work sometimes, it may not.

there is so much unknown about this virus--why do some get such a mild case it's almost unnoticed but others end up on respirators? is it genetic? maybe whatever it is also contributes to why some respond to this medicine and some do not.

but I would hazard a guess that at this stage all hospitals are using it.

Last edited by Bonnevie; 04-07-2020 at 08:40 AM.
  #68  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby View Post
There are patients with lupus, arthritis, and other conditions who are already taking hydroxychloroquine for these disorders, who have been diagnosed with COVID-19. Obviously it isn't a preventative. The "great success" in France is disputed BY France. The country's medical experts are split on the useage of the drug.

What's your source for your statement that going on a ventilator is "more than likely" a death sentence? I've never heard that one before, ever in my life. In fact - ventilators are used to save lives, not end them. If you're just waxing philosophical or applying a heavy dose of hyperbole and rhetoric, that's the sort of thing that scares people into doing very stupid, very dangerous things out of desperation. Those are the very things that some of us here are trying to prevent, by presenting facts, and challenging internet theories.
I am well aware that this medication is used for lupus and arthritis. I never said it was a preventive medication except for malaria. It is currently being used to TRY to save lives. It is not necessary for the mild cases but rather for severe cases. Every single news channel has pointed out that the cocktail being used is showing great potential. Potential beats nothing hands-down.

Vents are good for two or three days. Beyond that, the likelihood of getting off the vent is slim to none. That too has been all over the news including the governor of New York (#1 hotspot).

Desperate times make for successful resolutions. If someone in dire straits wants to try this therapy, I applaud their decision and would do the same thing. There is no reward for dying because you’re too stubborn to try.

Last edited by DianeM; 04-07-2020 at 09:26 AM.
  #69  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:38 AM
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[QUOTE=OrangeBlossomBaby;1741957]I haven't seen anyone here state that they wouldn't take it even under emergency circumstances. What I am seeing, is people jumping on the bandwagon of "this stuff works, I know someone who knows someone who lived to tell about it!" and "this stuff works, I read it in an article that quoted a doctor!"

And then I'm seeing (and posting) "stop assuming that just because you read it in an article that quotes a doctor, and know someone who knows someone - that it's actually effective."

Here's the snopes explanation (from a person who has spent 7 years working with coronaviruses) about the France trials:

Small Trial Finds Hydroxychloroquine Is Not Effective for Treating Coronavirus[/QUOTE

Yeppers. Snopes knows better than every doctor or medical lab.
  #70  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:42 AM
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If you read the side affects for many of the drugs commonly in use it will make you seriously consider not taking it. My wife has rheumatoid arthritis and has been on Enbrel for 20 year now. The side affects of this drug are unbelievable. Enbrel, like all the rheumatoid arthritis drugs, suppresses the immune system in order to reduce the damage to the joints by the immune system. She recently suffered a dangerous bacterial lung infection that required a cocktail antibiotic to knock it out. It has taken 5 months to get it under control. Serious medical problems can happen with the use of this drug but you have to weigh the potential consequences with the benefits it provides to the patient. She has had 20 years of productivity and reasonably good health. Without this drug I have no doubt she would have been long in a wheel chair or confined to a bed due to the damage this disease causes. Because of this last infection we don't believe she will be allowed to use it anymore and has been off the drug for the five months now. She has been in nearly constant pain having to take huge doses of prednisone and pain medication to reduce the effects of the arthritis. If you take every drug off the market that has possible serious side affects we will be in serious trouble.
  #71  
Old 04-07-2020, 10:00 AM
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Why do you jump to such an over-reaction. No one said Snopes knows more than every doctor or medical lab. What was posted was a link to Snopes which is not even their own product but rather a reprint from another website.

The story reported was a small French study that tested the drug combination and found no benefit at all. So apparently not every doctor is finding success. That is all the story reports. It is not a fact checking story. I have mentioned this unsuccessful trial in some previous posts, and have listed criticisms of why this negative report is also not convincing. The Snopes reprint also mentions other failure studies and other success studies. It concludes "questions remain as to the efficacy of this treatment"

No one here is saying hydroxychloroquine with or without other meds is useless. All we are saying it that it has not been proven to work. As for the post saying

"but I would hazard a guess that at this stage all hospitals are using it" I don't know what the number of hospitals using it might be. But I don't have to hazard a guess to tell you that your guess is wrong. I know an ICU director working in what they call "Covid Land" who is not using it.
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  #72  
Old 04-07-2020, 10:18 AM
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For every drug combo naysayer, there is one that promotes it. Nothing in this life can be proven to an absolute certainty and every drug has side effects. However, this drug has been around for 75 years and can be approved for use faster than something currently in a lab based on it’s long history.

Let’s face it - treating this virus right now is a crapshoot. If you are in ICU and want to take it - go for it - I know I would.
If you don’t want to take it - that’s fine too.
  #73  
Old 04-07-2020, 11:08 AM
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It is currently being used to TRY to save lives. It is not necessary for the mild cases but rather for severe cases. Every single news channel has pointed out that the cocktail being used is showing great potential. Potential beats nothing hands-down.

Vents are good for two or three days. Beyond that, the likelihood of getting off the vent is slim to none. That too has been all over the news including the governor of New York (#1 hotspot).

Desperate times make for successful resolutions. If someone in dire straits wants to try this therapy, I applaud their decision and would do the same thing. There is no reward for dying because you’re too stubborn to try.
Lots to unpack here.
Not necessary for mild cases but rather for severe cases

Both reports starting this thread are of doctors using these medications in mild cases. Their reports both claim that using it in mild cases seems to prevent the disease from becoming severe. So your statement that it should only been used in severe cases would seem to be contrary to what these doctors are doing.

Every single news channel has pointed out that the cocktail being used is showing great potential

The news channels have mostly been extremely cautious in their reporting, being careful to differentiate between showing potential and warning viewers that the information is anecdotal and thus there is no proof of efficacy.

Hydroxychloroquine and Covid-19: an explainer - CNN Is a nice balanced presentation.
One network has been far more positive in its presentation and IMO not giving its viewers a balanced approach as it rarely explains the need for better studies. You can watch the linked report earlier in this thread and you will hearing nothing about cautious interpretation of the data.

Vents are good for two or three days

I'm not sure of the point you are making. Vents are good at keeping you alive far longer than 3 days. I have seen no data suggesting that if you are not off the vent in 3 days that this is a critical point beyond which recovery is nearly impossible. In a study published yesterday from Italy, the average time in ICU of those who were discharged alive was 8 days.

"If someone in dire straits wants to try this therapy, I applaud their decision and would do the same thing"

I agree with that. I might opt for remdesivir if I could get it.
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Last edited by blueash; 04-26-2020 at 12:12 PM.
  #74  
Old 04-07-2020, 11:21 AM
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Both reports starting this thread are of doctors using these medications in mild cases. There reports both claim that using it in mild cases seems to prevent the disease from becoming severe. So your statement that it should only been used in severe cases would seem to be contrary to what these doctors are doing.

As linked above, Dr Cardillo in LA says he is only using it on severely ill.

Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

"Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."

LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 - ABC7 Los Angeles
  #75  
Old 04-07-2020, 11:52 AM
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Lots to unpack here.
Not necessary for mild cases but rather for severe cases

Both reports starting this thread are of doctors using these medications in mild cases. There reports both claim that using it in mild cases seems to prevent the disease from becoming severe. So your statement that it should only been used in severe cases would seem to be contrary to what these doctors are doing.

Every single news channel has pointed out that the cocktail being used is showing great potential

The news channels have mostly been extremely cautious in their reporting, being careful to differentiate between showing potential and warning viewers that the information is anecdotal and thus there is no proof of efficacy.

Hydroxychloroquine and Covid-19: an explainer - CNN Is a nice balanced presentation.
One network has been far more positive in its presentation and IMO not giving its viewers a balanced approach as it rarely explains the need for better studies. You can watch the linked report earlier in this thread and you will hearing nothing about cautious interpretation of the data.

Vents are good for two or three days

I'm not sure of the point you are making. Vents are good at keeping you alive far longer than 3 days. I have seen no data suggesting that if you are not off the vent in 3 days that this is a critical point beyond which recovery is nearly impossible. In a study published yesterday from Italy, the average time in ICU of those who were discharged alive was 8 days.

"If someone in dire straits wants to try this therapy, I applaud their decision and would do the same thing"

I agree with that. I might opt for remdesivir if I could get it.
You can be on a vent for a long time but beyond 3 days, the odds are that you’re not coming off and someone will need to pull the proverbial plug. Being in ICU does not automatically mean you are on a vent. There are other assisted breathing devices used first. The patient to be vented is put into a coma like state to facilitate insertion of tubes and remains in that state to stop them from trying to remove. Sounds swell to me. I’ll take the drug cocktail thank you.
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