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  #31  
Old 12-24-2022, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Koapaka View Post
I am amazed no one even considered the obvious given the age group that most of these deaths are occurring in. Drugs pouring across our borders that are killing more people per year than the Vietnam war did. In a SINGLE year, yet no one seems interested in addressing or even acknowledging this issue.
Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the Vietnam War - CBS News
Many important issues get little media coverage, such as Global Warming. And please spare me, "It's very cold out now".........I know.
  #32  
Old 12-24-2022, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hape2Bhr View Post
Well, there are many interested; unfortunately it then becomes off limits here.
I would HOPE not, because since 1996 there have been alternating Presidents of BOTH parties.
  #33  
Old 12-24-2022, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Two Bills View Post
Maybe the older generations were fitter, leaner, and knew how to cook proper food.
Could just be a blip because of Covid.
Whatever way you look at it, the medical profession has been under the cosh for last couple of years., and many minor medical issues have been missed, and are now serious issues.
For two years you were lucky to even see a doctor in person.
Which brings up the points that maybe there should be more Medical Schools and maybe the US insurance industry should try to stay out of medical practice and Doctors should be paid more than the average Wall Street trader. Fixing those problems could put more social concentration on the loss of capable, productive middle-aged US citizens

Last edited by jimjamuser; 12-24-2022 at 05:15 PM.
  #34  
Old 12-24-2022, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby View Post
China, Mexico, and India are the three primary sources for one specific drug that causes lethal overdoses: fentanyl. As of my last trip to the google map, only one of those three countries shares a border with the USA. Thankfully, the DEA has seized more of this drug this past year, than it has in the last decade that the drug has been a problem.

That tells me the DEA is doing a good job. If it weren't, they wouldn't be seizing it. It'd be killing even MORE people.

Eliminate the demand, and the supply will dwindle. It's Americans who are overdosing - because it's Americans who insist on taking the stuff.

It's not even the only opioid killing Americans. It's just the one with the most press recently. Other opioids are legally and appropriately prescribed to patients for pain management and recovery from surgery. Just because some people are happy to "bite the bullet" and take the pain, doesn't mean everyone can, or should, do the same. When I have my hip surgery (hopefully this coming year) you better believe I'll be asking for a few days' worth of Vikoden. Unapologetically.

Everyone is addressing and acknowledging this issue, it's a HUGE issue, and complex, and there is no singular solution to it. There is a singular cause: People want these drugs. For whatever reason, they want it. Legally or illegally, they want it. To manage/treat pain or to get high, they want it. That's the cause. Until/unless you can come up with an alternative to treating/managing pain, people will continue wanting it for legitimate purposes. And as long as it's available legitimately, there will be people who get hooked. When the doctor stops prescribing it, they will seek it through illegal channels.

But - you can't trust Big Pharma, supposedly. So good luck finding an alternative to severe pain caused by cancer or major surgery recovery, or severe injury, or 3rd degree burns that take months to heal. Good luck telling those folks they can no longer minimize their agony because Johnny got his fix from China. Because that just makes SO much sense.
Everything said in this post is uniquely valuable. The history of pain pills and their over-prescriptions has been detailed in a book or movie, I believe. And they have indicted the pharmacy company (or companies) that PUSHED the pills. I believe that one owner had to declare bankruptcy. There was false advertising involved as to the pain pills NOT being addictive. Then, when the Doctors went back to normal (or even under) prescribing - the underworld through China and other countries stepped in to supply the painkillers (in this case fentanyl, the pain and mankiller)

This is an example of supply and demand. After the demand for painkillers became high, it stayed high as doctors (learning of the danger) started SUPPLYING less to patients. Lower SUPPLY led to DEMAND for a NEW drug that bypassed the medical profession. The black market satisfied that DEMAND with non-prescription Sudafed, then oxycodone, then finally the man-killing fentanyl. (note - I am sure that I left out some details)
  #35  
Old 12-24-2022, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Susan1717 View Post
I’m going to agree with the comments attributing much to the processed fake chemical foods and sugar consumption adding in all the million increasing fentanyl deaths and extra diseases and more covid coming across the border. Over 5 million and they’re estimating another 6 million in 2023. That will put a huge damper on hospital overload and our health care system.
That will be like adding an accelerant to a fire. A fire of continuing and increased fentanyl and Covid deaths.
  #36  
Old 12-24-2022, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by blueash View Post
You can attribute whatever you want in the absence of the ability to look at data and you would be certain, and certainly wrong. There has been no change in the obesity or the diet or the exercise of Americans in the last two years. You cannot blame a sudden decrease in life expectancy on this completely unchanged lifestyle.

Those above who blame the shots are completely wrong. Every single data point in every single country has produced the same finding. Shots save lives. Period. States and counties with the highest rate of acceptance of shots consistently had the lowest increased death rates during the pandemic. States and counties with the lowest rate of vaccination had higher excess death.

This is found over and over. Recently here:
COVID-19 and Excess All-Cause Mortality in the US and 20 Comparison Countries, June 2021-March 2022 | Public Health | JAMA | JAMA Network
older study here:
County-level vaccination coverage and rates of COVID-19 cases and deaths in the United States: An ecological analysis - The Lancet Regional Health – Americas

Just stop with the stupid ignorant claim that it is the shots causing excess deaths. You are wrong, dangerously wrong.

The CDC here and similar organizations in other countries has ongoing data which accurately predicts about how many people in each age/gender/race etc will die in a normal year. They can then look at the real deaths and see if the expected pattern held, or fewer deaths or more.

This is not the same measure as life expectancy but it is related. A healthy senior citizen dying of covid is an excess life lost, but does not move the average life expectancy much. You have to loose a lot of older people to see a big drop in life expectancy. But a million will do it.
A 20 yo dying of a drug overdose is also an excess life lost but has a much greater impact on overall life expectancy [years of potential life lost]. But recently it is Covid deaths which have had the major impact on life expectancy. Data for 2022 is not yet available.

The CDC regularly updates on these problems. You can subscribe to MMWR for free and get the weekly report in your email.

"The declines in life expectancy since 2019 are largely driven by the pandemic. COVID-19 deaths contributed to nearly three-fourths or 74% of the decline from 2019 to 2020 and 50% of the decline from 2020 to 2021. An estimated 16% of the decline in life expectancy from 2020 to 2021 can be attributed to increases in deaths from accidents/unintentional injuries. Drug overdose deaths account for nearly half of all unintentional injury deaths."
A serious accurate "drop the mike" post.
  #37  
Old 12-24-2022, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JMintzer View Post
Except it is the vaxx'ed people who are now dying at a greater rate...
Today the rate of Covid deaths is VASTLY lower than BEFORE the vaccines. And those dying today (and same as earlier) are the UN-vaxxed people that refused to get the vaccines. And the MOST deaths are in states with the lowest vaccine acceptance.
........This is also PROVEN by the fact that the countries with the MOST vaccine acceptance have the least covid cases and deaths.
  #38  
Old 12-24-2022, 05:20 PM
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........This is also PROVEN by the fact that the countries with the MOST vaccine acceptance have the least covid cases and deaths.
You must not be aware of what is going on in China.
EVERYONE has been forced to vaccinate yet 250 million contracted covid just in December.
Leaked notes from Chinese health officials estimate 250 million Covid-19 infections in December: reports | CNN
  #39  
Old 12-24-2022, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by NoMoSno View Post
You must not be aware of what is going on in China.
EVERYONE has been forced to vaccinate yet 250 million contracted covid just in December.
Leaked notes from Chinese health officials estimate 250 million Covid-19 infections in December: reports | CNN
Umm, not quite "everyone."


Why vaccine hesitancy persists in China : Goats and Soda : NPR


The least vaccinated are the elderly

"The problem of under-vaccination is most acute among the elderly. The government announced a little over a week ago that around 30% of people aged 60 and up — or roughly 80 million people — were not vaccinated and boosted as of Nov. 11. Among those 80 or older, the ratio was closer to 60%."
  #40  
Old 12-24-2022, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tvbound View Post
Why vaccine hesitancy persists in China : Goats and Soda : NPR


The least vaccinated are the elderly

"The problem of under-vaccination is most acute among the elderly. The government announced a little over a week ago that around 30% of people aged 60 and up — or roughly 80 million people — were not vaccinated and boosted as of Nov. 11. Among those 80 or older, the ratio was closer to 60%."
So 80 million are not vaccinated (out of a population of 1.4 billion). Yet 250 million have contracted covid in the last 20 days.
  #41  
Old 12-24-2022, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by maistocars View Post
Does that include those who died of gunshot wounds that were classified as CV and everything else? Stop. Just stop and suggest you may want to change your viewing channels. I would be more worried about "excess deaths" and "sudden deaths" in healthy individuals resulting from you know what. My word...
.
Evidence please. List about how many gunshot deaths you believe were misclassified as Covid deaths? You might need to rethink, or maybe just THINK, about whether you are getting good data and learning how to interpret that data. See above posts with real data. Do you believe every country in the world is misclassifying Covid deaths in an attempt to make some bizarre political point?
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  #42  
Old 12-24-2022, 05:37 PM
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"Except it is the vaxx'ed people who are now dying at a greater rate."

A greater rate than what? Are they dying at a greater rate than the unvaccinated. No they are not. Math is hard. Understanding statistics is beyond the grasp of too many people.

If 95% of people wear seat belts and seat belts save 1/2 the lives of those who would otherwise die in crashes... consider the following.
There are 1000 crashes which would be fatal with no seat belt. Using our assumption, 950 of those crashes had seat belt wearers. As we save 1/2 the lives, we have 475 belt wearers who die [1/2 of 950] and we have only 50 non belt wearers who die. Proof in your world that people who wear seat belts "are dying at a greater rate"

That is what you are doing.
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Last edited by blueash; 12-24-2022 at 05:47 PM.
  #43  
Old 12-24-2022, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NoMoSno View Post
So 80 million are not vaccinated (out of a population of 1.4 billion). Yet 250 million have contracted covid in the last 20 days.
In your own link, it says the 250M is purely an estimate and therefore unverifiable.
  #44  
Old 12-24-2022, 05:41 PM
NoMoSno NoMoSno is offline
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Originally Posted by blueash View Post
So nearly the entire population of the US, which is just over 300 million, have caught Covid in the last 3 weeks. Wildly wrong and irresponsible statement.
Well, the information came from CNN. So probably fake news.

Looks like NPR is also being irresponsible:
China facing largest COVID surge of the pandemic: possibly 800 million cases : Goats and Soda : NPR

and USnews:
Access Denied

covid surge in china - Google Search

Last edited by NoMoSno; 12-24-2022 at 06:21 PM.
  #45  
Old 12-24-2022, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NoMoSno View Post
You must not be aware of what is going on in China.
EVERYONE has been forced to vaccinate yet 250 million contracted covid just in December.
Leaked notes from Chinese health officials estimate 250 million Covid-19 infections in December: reports | CNN
The main problems were that the Chicoms used their own inferior vaccines (backward engineered BioNTech vaccine) plus the lockdowns prevented any chance at natural immunity. They are now behind most other countries.
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