[BigHoss18]

Originally Posted by Garywt

I just had my booster shot, doctor ordered. I have no issue with the shots. It still comes down to selfish people. The shot is for everyone you come in contact with and not just about you. If everyone would just care about others everyone would be vaccinated and Covid would not be on the rise. I have no problem if unvaccinated people are not allowed into restaurants, stores and any other indoor activities.

I just want to know why women, and women alone, are allowed to murder their precious child under the LAW of “my body my choice!”, but the rest of us must succumb to unwanted demands of being vaccinated?!!!

If it’s true that our bodies are no longer our own to manage, then I see ABSOLUTEY NO DIFFERENCE, and feel strongly that Roe v Wade should be reversed!!!

[DaleDivine]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

False. The shot (not a vaccine) has no effect on transmission whatsoever. It only (possibly) mitigates symptoms to lower hospital visits & deaths. But, vaccinated people can (and do) spread this thing like everyone else. So, the "not just about you" is complete BS. If you think the shot will keep you alive, get it. But, unvaccinated people pose no additional risk to others. I'm out and staying out. And, my lack of vaccination plays no role in whether you become exposed to the virus or not. Educate yourself.

Brighteon

https://www.house.mi.gov/MHRPublic/C...s,%20Ph.D..pdf

Your body, your choice?
Not really, you're required to wear a seat belt aren't you?
No choice, wear it or get a ticket. Get vaccinated or get COVID.
You will pay the price eventually.
Please stay away from me.

[Dilligas]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

I understand how you feel, BUT.......how about those that cannot get vaccinated for one reason or another? How about those that have had Covid and have been advised by their doctors NOT to get vaccinated yet? No one should be making decisions on other's liberties. I agree that folks should think seriously about getting vaccinated in these difficult times. I do not believe in mandates at this time. If the death rate was higher, perhaps I would change my view. Unfortunately, there are many folks that are too weakly disciplined to make decisions for themselves and need the gov to run their lives and direct them like mindless zombies.

almost all mandates include exclusions for those whose health or body can not utilize the vaccine appropriately. This discussion is for the those who simply think they don't need, or want the vaccine for personal reasons. Most of us over 60 have received manditory vaccines for polio, whooping cough, chicken pox, etc.....all of which have reduced greatly or wiped out the disease.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Why the persecution complex? I have many conservative friends, and nothing said applies to them, they are vaccinated and follow all the other recommendations. The posts are addressed to anti crowd (mostly) continue to promote false narratives that put others lives at risk. And rather than hate, I would characterize it more as frustration.

You don't, so you aren't.

Condescend much? " promote false narratives that put others lives at risk?" So, if they do not agree with you, the are wrong and threaten others' lives? As long as they "follow all the other recommendations" they are OK, right?

Some folks really need to back off with their superior attitude, often referred to as being "Elitists." I wonder if some are really attempting to convince or prefer to just elevate themselves to being higher and able to look down at those commoners.
Remember that it is often confusing and difficult to "follow other recommendations" when the so-called experts flip flop on what they recommend from day to day, week to week. Some folks have been stung enough to not blindly FOLLOW those with questionable records, especially those that believe in "leading from behind."
Remember, most folks have lived through this pandemic for over a year without the aid of the vaccination. Just saying, because I did get vaccinated and feel it is the right thing to do. But, not everyone feels the same way. Some are leery of and tired of our leadership. My neighbor finally got their vaccination and it was NOT from me threatening or calling him stupid or unpatriotic.

[Lancer]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Once again, YOUR OPINION, not law. And you finally admitted that there is NO law mandating vaccinations and/or masking. Thank you.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts case from 1905 in which the Court upheld the authority of state governments to enforce laws that require their citizens to be immunized.

[BigHoss18]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

First, Bosch is a great series. We agree.

Second, the vaccines have NEVER been pitched as 100% effective. They help. They helped more against the original variant they were designed to be used against. Sadly, We, and the rest of the world, failed to take timely actions to stop the original variant from spreading far enough to begin mutating - I believe the common theme at the time was "it is no worse than the flu". ahem...

So, we now have a few variants to deal with. The current vaccines help reduce the impact of getting the delta variant, but do not stop it - as well as it does with the original. So, because we didn't take action when we could, we are now faced with a worse situation, that new variants are happening and we will need to find more ways to stop the spread. It's pretty simple, the more people that get infected, the more opportunities the virus has to mutate. Do nothing and it will mutate often and there is a good chance it will become more deadly.

The Spanish Flu lasted 4 years and killed a lot of people because they did not understand how it was transmitted and how to stop it. We do know how to stop the transmission, but, sadly we aren't. We would rather argue about liberties, and rights, and whether paper masks are useless, and how many feet should stand apart - inside or outside.

Anything at all to argue, rather than simply saying, "How can I help".

Benjamin Franklin quote: They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Abraham Lincoln quote: Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.

We can’t have it both ways! We either must succumb to our federal overlords and be sheeple forever, or we stand up against control and tyranny and defend our God-given rights.

Are there risks to the latter? Absolutely! Risks worth taking or before you know it we’ll be branded like the Jews or tagged with GPS devices because “the government SAID it’s for our safety and security.”

Demanding other do what YOU DEEM NECESSARY, is wrong on so many levels!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Condescend much? " promote false narratives that put others lives at risk?" So, if they do not agree with you, the are wrong and threaten others' lives? As long as they "follow all the other recommendations" they are OK, right?

Some folks really need to back off with their superior attitude, often referred to as being "Elitists." I wonder if some are really attempting to convince or prefer to just elevate themselves to being higher and able to look down at those commoners.
Remember that it is often confusing and difficult to "follow other recommendations" when the so-called experts flip flop on what they recommend from day to day, week to week. Some folks have been stung enough to not blindly FOLLOW those with questionable records, especially those that believe in "leading from behind."
Remember, most folks have lived through this pandemic for over a year without the aid of the vaccination. Just saying, because I did get vaccinated and feel it is the right thing to do. But, not everyone feels the same way. Some are leery of and tired of our leadership. My neighbor finally got their vaccination and it was NOT from me threatening or calling him stupid or unpatriotic.

I am not saying I am superior or have more knowledge, and if are feeling that maybe you should look inward for a reason.

I am saying, the people who spend their lives working in this field (not vets) have spoken and said what needs to be done. THEY are the ones that solve Chickenpox, they are the ones that stopped Polio, They are the ones I and others are supporting.

Unlike the deniers, that stomp their feet complain of being attacked and claim that they have a right to put everyone else at risk.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by BigHoss18

Benjamin Franklin quote: They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Abraham Lincoln quote: Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.

We can’t have it both ways! We either must succumb to our federal overlords and be sheeple forever, or we stand up against control and tyranny and defend our God-given rights.

Are there risks to the latter? Absolutely! Risks worth taking or before you know it we’ll be branded like the Jews or tagged with GPS devices because “the government SAID it’s for our safety and security.”

Demanding other do what YOU DEEM NECESSARY, is wrong on so many levels!

Did you get a chickenpox vaccine? Did you get a polio, you follow your doctors advice after a heart attack - seriously. the quotes are totally out of context.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Dilligas

almost all mandates include exclusions for those whose health or body can not utilize the vaccine appropriately. This discussion is for the those who simply think they don't need, or want the vaccine for personal reasons. Most of us over 60 have received manditory vaccines for polio, whooping cough, chicken pox, etc.....all of which have reduced greatly or wiped out the disease.

Exactly! And many folks also believe that those are different. I have had a plethora of shots for a multitude of diseases that are just about extinct now, when I was in the military. And I have had the shingles vaccine and pneumonia shots but I never get the flu shot. Why? I have never had the flu and I have heard (maybe wrongly) that every year the flu shot is for the previous year(or something like that). Regardless, if I ever catch the flu and survive then I might get the flu shot after that. Silly? Maybe but it is my choice and not someone else's. It was my choice to get the Covid vaccination, even though I doubt I would ever suffer from the illness. I have children and grandchildren that have had covid, one even twice and all shrugged it off easier than a common cold. And I am in better condition than most of them. Did I do this for the "common good" of others? No, I did it primarily for my spouse. Does that make me bad? That is a matter of opinion, but no one would be advised to accuse me of not being patriotic unless your background has as much or more history.
According to what I have read, 85% of the Villages residents have been vaccinate. I believe (opinion) that if we had 100% vaccinations, there would still be covid in The Villages. I have no qualms about encouraging vaccinations or encouraging masking. I do not believe that masking will harm anyone, although I suspect the viability of 99% of the masks worn. I don't wear a mask since I was vaccinated, but that is my decision. If that bothers anyone, I suggest that they stay their distance. Do not walk up to me and demand that I wear a mask or I will demand that you remove yourself from my personal space.
Get it? I respect your decision and you respect mine. I can't be a threat to you IF you stay away from me. Do you reach over a fence that is posted "Beware of Dog" get bit and then demand that the owner muzzle the dog?

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I am not saying I am superior or have more knowledge, and if are feeling that maybe you should look inward for a reason.

I am saying, the people who spend their lives working in this field (not vets) have spoken and said what needs to be done. THEY are the ones that solve Chickenpox, they are the ones that stopped Polio, They are the ones I and others are supporting.

Unlike the deniers, that stomp their feet complain of being attacked and claim that they have a right to put everyone else at risk.

Thank you for proving my point.

[newgirl]

Do you mean, if people you care about started dying....enough have died ( and have people that love them). How many have to die for you to say ok ?

[lkagele]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I am not saying I am superior or have more knowledge, and if are feeling that maybe you should look inward for a reason.

I am saying, the people who spend their lives working in this field (not vets) have spoken and said what needs to be done. THEY are the ones that solve Chickenpox, they are the ones that stopped Polio, They are the ones I and others are supporting.

Unlike the deniers, that stomp their feet complain of being attacked and claim that they have a right to put everyone else at risk.

No disrespect intended but you are coming across that it's your way or the highway. Even top scientist within the governmental system have disagreements on how the vaccine thing is being handled. Here's some breaking news that documents disagreements exist within the system.

BREAKING: In a major blow to vaccine efforts, senior FDA leaders stepping down

"A former senior FDA leader told Endpoints that they’re departing because they’re frustrated that CDC and their ACIP committee are involved in decisions that they think should be up to the FDA. The former FDAer also said he’s heard they’re upset with CBER director Peter Marks for not insisting that those decisions should be kept inside FDA. What finally did it for them was the White House getting ahead of FDA on booster shots."

I'm going to continue looking at all sources and not rely on one that someone else says I must.

[Bob.Betty]

so you have been drinking the koolaid too

[flflowers]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

I understand how you feel, BUT.......how about those that cannot get vaccinated for one reason or another? How about those that have had Covid and have been advised by their doctors NOT to get vaccinated yet? No one should be making decisions on other's liberties. I agree that folks should think seriously about getting vaccinated in these difficult times. I do not believe in mandates at this time. If the death rate was higher, perhaps I would change my view.[I

[ Unfortunately, there are many folks that are too weakly disciplined to make decisions for themselves and need the gov to run their lives and direct them like mindless zombies.

[/I][/I][/SIZE]

Sounds like sheeple to me!

[drducat]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

False. The shot (not a vaccine) has no effect on transmission whatsoever. It only (possibly) mitigates symptoms to lower hospital visits & deaths. But, vaccinated people can (and do) spread this thing like everyone else. So, the "not just about you" is complete BS. If you think the shot will keep you alive, get it. But, unvaccinated people pose no additional risk to others. I'm out and staying out. And, my lack of vaccination plays no role in whether you become exposed to the virus or not. Educate yourself.

Brighteon

https://www.house.mi.gov/MHRPublic/C...s,%20Ph.D..pdf

Yes .....someone that finally gets it....!