[Challenger]

Originally Posted by dbussone

There are also 6 year MDs as I noted earlier. You go to combined undergrad/MD program year round for 6 years. Boston University has one such program.

Physician extenders i.e. Physician Assistants, and Nurse Practioners could efficiiently do much of the more common tasks that many of us take up the time of MDs to diagnose and treat; colds ,flu, minor bumps and scratches and even more . The military uses extenders( corpsmen, army medics EMTs) widely and they provide quality care. Caution: The AMA will scream bloody murder.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

The thread was started on the premise that YOU think doctors should shorten their college time so we can have more doctors.

I still think so.

Now you give new figures on males living longer but still go by the old figures on doctors life span.

If the figure for doctors' lifespan hasn't been updated, most likely it's because it hasn't changed. Do you have a more recent figure?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

If the standard dose of a drug for an adult male is 4mg/kg, then how much drug should be prescribed to a 200 pound man who has reduced kidney function? Go ahead and figure that out without using basic math skills.

This has been brought up a time or two, so I'm going back to it. High school students are taught plenty of basic math. How much basic math does one need to figure out how much medicine to give to a person of a certain weight?

And, why would you deny a doctor the skills needed to not only enjoy art or music, but to understand why. I don't use my art appreciation course when I practice pharmacy, but I am grateful that I took it.

I had art and music classes in grammar school and high school. Then a couple of art courses again in college. How much is enough? I think I had enough before I got to college. What I learned in college I could have learned from a library book(s) at some later time.....in my spare time. A college education can be very expensive whereas a good library book doesn't cost a penny.

[sunnyatlast]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Physician extenders i.e. Physician Assistants, and Nurse Practioners could efficiiently do much of the more common tasks that many of us take up the time of MDs to diagnose and treat; colds ,flu, minor bumps and scratches and even more . The military uses extenders( corpsmen, army medics EMTs) widely and they provide quality care. Caution: The AMA will scream bloody murder.

This (quoted) is so far behind the times... Practically all hospitals, ERs, and dr. offices use PAs and they are good to have within their specific and tightly limited scope of practice. .

One can read all day long here on threads about experiences with PAs......both good and bad. And then you can read about how some should "go back to charm school" or learn when to admit they're in over their head and need the physician to take over.

I wonder if you guys want a law clerk or paralegal to defend you in a prosecution against you for hitting somebody with the car and they get killed.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Cut art and music??? Not according to this.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0JKCYZ8hng[/ame]

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Physician extenders i.e. Physician Assistants, and Nurse Practioners could efficiiently do much of the more common tasks that many of us take up the time of MDs to diagnose and treat; colds ,flu, minor bumps and scratches and even more . The military uses extenders( corpsmen, army medics EMTs) widely and they provide quality care. Caution: The AMA will scream bloody murder.

I agree. And because of PAs and ARNPs we have more providers than we would otherwise.

My point re 6 year MD programs was- tho they exist, the students are cramming all the courses into 6 years rather than 8. It is a brutal curriculum - and for that reason I elected not to go into it after being accepted.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Cut art and music??? Not according to this.

How playing an instrument benefits your brain - Anita Collins - YouTube

Many thanks to The Arts Counsel, a group that provides funding and advocacy for the arts.

Note: Going for a walk benefits your brain too.

[CFrance]

There is an advocacy group for everything. There is a book for everything. You like to quote books and different groups as authority for your agenda. So nobody else should?

Walk home from the library.

[rubicon]

Let's put an end to doctor shortage. heck let's just skip medical school altogethe and go straight to on the job training.

[SALYBOW]

The Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) has four sections: Physical Sciences, Verbal Reasoning, Writing Sample and Biological Sciences. The exam tests students knowledge of biology, inorganic and organic chemistry, and physics, as well as critical thinking and general writing skills. Because the MCAT includes sections that test your ability to reason verbally and to synthesize and analyze concepts and ideas through writing, you'll want to be sure to take one year of English Composition as well as classes in humanities and social sciences, in addition to the requisite science courses suggested for exam proficiency.

In order to take these classes successfully Math through Calc III is needed.

It goesn't sound like one can eliminate the four years of college. My son majored in Theology and they loved that as a pre-major. They told him he would really use it. Thay also liked that he took logic.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by CFrance

There is an advocacy group for everything. There is a book for everything. You like to quote books and different groups as authority for your agenda. So nobody else should?

There's nothing wrong with advocacy groups or books as long as people are aware of it. The point is: If music were the only way to improve one's brain, it might be considered essential for pre-med, assuming pre-med students need to improve their brains. But it's not the only way to improve one's brain.

Walk home from the library.

Pre-med students: Walk around campus.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by NYGUY

I'll take the eight year doctor....you can have the 6!!

As long as I'm getting it "free" through my HMO, I'll take the 8 year doctor too.

But if there were a choice between an eight year doc and a 6 year doc, I wonder how many people would choose the 6 year doc if there were a difference in price of $25 dollars.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by SALYBOW

The Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) has four sections: Physical Sciences, Verbal Reasoning, Writing Sample and Biological Sciences. The exam tests students knowledge of biology, inorganic and organic chemistry, and physics, as well as critical thinking and general writing skills. Because the MCAT includes sections that test your ability to reason verbally and to synthesize and analyze concepts and ideas through writing, you'll want to be sure to take one year of English Composition as well as classes in humanities and social sciences, in addition to the requisite science courses suggested for exam proficiency.

In order to take these classes successfully Math through Calc III is needed.

It goesn't sound like one can eliminate the four years of college. My son majored in Theology and they loved that as a pre-major. They told him he would really use it. Thay also liked that he took logic.

Thanks for the explanation. It certainly sounds like a high powered curriculum. But wouldn't it be fair to ask if it's working? I would think the underlying essence of it all is whether or not patients are being helped. If not, what is the point of all that schooling?

Research has found that, overall, annual physicals prevent nothing, according to a Daily Sun column by David Lipschitz M.D. This is the overall result you get when you compare benefits versus harm caused by conventional medicine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conventional wisdom says: Don't change the requirements for a medical degree. But consider the following:

800,000 deaths per year are caused by conventional medicine. It's the leading cause of death and injury in the U.S. (Source: "Death By Medicine", Copyright 2010)

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Thanks for the explanation. It certainly sounds like a high powered curriculum. But wouldn't it be fair to ask if it's working? I would think the underlying essence of it all is whether or not patients are being helped. If not, what is the point of all that schooling?

Research has found that, overall, annual physicals prevent nothing, according to a Daily Sun column by David Lipschitz M.D. This is the overall result you get when you compare benefits versus harm caused by conventional medicine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conventional wisdom says: Don't change the requirements for a medical degree. But consider the following:

800,000 deaths per year are caused by conventional medicine. It's the leading cause of death and injury in the U.S. (Source: "Death By Medicine", Copyright 2010)

The Flexner Report about 80 years ago did that very job, and changed medical education significantly. The AAMC has followed up on a frequent basis and keeps up with the times. It is working!

The Daily Sun is not an expert on medical education ...despite the fact that I enjoy it and read it everyday.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Thanks for the explanation. It certainly sounds like a high powered curriculum. But wouldn't it be fair to ask if it's working? I would think the underlying essence of it all is whether or not patients are being helped. If not, what is the point of all that schooling?

Research has found that, overall, annual physicals prevent nothing, according to a Daily Sun column by David Lipschitz M.D. This is the overall result you get when you compare benefits versus harm caused by conventional medicine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conventional wisdom says: Don't change the requirements for a medical degree. But consider the following:

800,000 deaths per year are caused by conventional medicine. It's the leading cause of death and injury in the U.S. (Source: "Death By Medicine", Copyright 2010)

P.S. your response makes it appear as though those deaths are singularly assignable to physicians. Not accurate. You need to include hospitals, surgical centers, RNs, LPNs, PAs, EMTs, Paramedics, and everyone else involved in "conventional medicine". Your assertion is not assignable solely to physicians.