[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Keep some of their money? So others can work harder, go without and have to subsidize them when this is exactly how their money should be spent if required? When did this something for nothing mindset begin?

(If that bell keeps ringing it's because you can't get enough people to work under those conditions for so little income.)

Are you saying that people who follow the rules shouldn't take advantage of a Government benefit, like Medicaid? Medicaid allows them to gift their money to avoid paying for nursing home care out of pocket. If done timely and correctly, they are entitled to the benefit.

[Grinchie]

It’s Medicaid, not Medicare, provided by the Federal gov. (as tweaked slightly by some states). The greater percentage of us will need Medicaid when we can’t continue to live alone/at home due to being unable to competently perform the basic functions of living independently. There is also a ‘Waiver’ program that allows a person to remain in home & receive services there.
There is a monthly income amount which one must be below (usually about 2300) to qualify & if married, the spouse (community spouse) can retain most of the joint assets (technically to a max of about $140,000, but there might be more protected from access by being in a Trust) . There is a five year look-back period during which, if any gifts were made, Medicaid would only be available five years after that date (or they charge you the full amount of the monthly rate). The biggest mistake people make is to sell their house as Medicaid, theoretically puts a claim on the house, effective after the death of the person & no gifts of money or sales of property are allowed during the 60 month ‘look back’ period.
However, many attys will do a Trust to transfer assets to a ‘Community Spouse’ or another, to essentially keep funds out of consideration.. When the monthly income is too high to qualify, a different Trust (Qualified Income Trust, also given other titles) to transfer income to that place when those funds are over the legal income limit to qualify for aid - that allowed Trust is meant to provide other additional medical care & appliances for the person. Theoretically, the Dept of Health & Human Resources has a type of lien on the person’s home upon the person’s death, although they often have not exercised that right to pay back the system - possibly changes will be coming under Doge, but I think it would be a few years before that gets changed. (This Dept has often been used to dispense money to migrants.).
If applying, the forms detailing bank accounts must be provided for the prior 60 months (5 years) & all information must be accurate. Google Medicaid & the state you would be living, and the rules are explained well. Each state can tweak the rules slightly & some states are aggressive in their Medicaid recovery through Probate.

[Grinchie]

PS: You have to find a Nursing Home which has available ‘Medicaid’ beds. Not all are geared to Medicaid, & many predominantly Medicaid NHs are in terrible condition, under-staffed, over-patiented, and frequently get violations for patient falls, poor medical care, and other failures of required care. There isn’t enough oversight by the authorities, & owners of these Medicaid homes have inadequate oversight & auditing.

[RoseyRed]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I partially agree with you. But nursing homes are basically Government Medicaid-funded facilities. The nursing homes do the bare minimum to comply with Government rules and it is the nursing home owners who are getting rich. If you move into a nursing home with $100,000 in life savings, it will be gone in about a year or so, and then the Government will be paying the nursing home through Medicaid. You will be broke and won't even be able to go out to dinner or buy a TV or a piece of furniture. But, if you can gift that money to your heirs, they can help you out by spending some of the money on you. (hopefully?)

It is tough from either point of view! I have had several family members go through the spend down Medicaid process. The taxes we have paid in all these years is being put to use.

[SoCalGal]

Originally Posted by Aces4

What a joke, dump your money on your heirs so they can live the good life while the rest of the population pays for your fanny. To stop this practice, which has been going on for a long time, long-term care should be beds in wards, shared public bathrooms and very basic care including food. How about your kids take you in, provide the care and you pay them? That would be far more equitable for the American people. I have watched so many couples dump their money to the kids to live off the public coffers. Talk about a travesty...

Thank you! That's what I wanted to say. People who have lived a moral life then deteriorate in their old age because lawyers told them this was the smart thing to do. Sickening.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by RoseyRed

It is tough from either point of view! I have had several family members go through the spend down Medicaid process. The taxes we have paid in all these years is being put to use.

The problem is that the Government doesn't collect enough in taxes to pay for all of the wasteful spending. That is why the country is $36 trillion in debt.

[RoseyRed]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

I have always thought along your same line of thinking, thought I must be the only one who thinks it strange that people would NOT want to pay for the care they receive (from any provider actually), yet find it morally sound to try to hide, or "get rid of" assets they have worked for all their lives and saved for the 'what if's", what IF I have to have nursing home care, etc. ? When people divest themselves of assets, surely SOMEONE has to pay the people who work in nursing homes ? If the people receiving care have money but don't want to pay, who then pays ? ? Isn't that similar to going to the doctor and needing heart surgery to save your life, but after the surgery you don't want to pay the surgeon for services rendered ? I can't help but think somehow, some body, must pay to build and staff nursing facilities !

Who pays for the nursing homes? Our tax dollars. We have all paid taxes for years right?

[SoCalGal]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

The problem is that the Government doesn't collect enough in taxes to pay for all of the wasteful spending. That is why the country is $36 trillion in debt.

Hopefully, DOGE is on the way.

[RoseyRed]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Spend some time in a nursing home. It's some of the toughest, most difficult work out there or people would keep their parents in their home.

If you want to work, maintain, change adult diapers, dig dentures out of returned food trays and locate their owners, bath, shave, hair groom, lift and move patients, the list goes on and on for $15./hr, they will hire you immediately. Appears to be bare minimums to you because it's not a spa.

The buildings, maintenance, heating, air conditioning, insurances including liability, food, entertainment, skilled employees, managers benefits and all the incidentals not even mentioned here make the care very expensive. Look at what pro athletes are paid and so called movie/entertainment people, this world is very upside down. As mentioned early, apply to a nursing home and advise us how to run it as a nonprofit entity.

Also, if you are in a nursing home, you won't have to worry about going out for dinner.

good point for sure!

[Berwin]

Something not mentioned in this thread is what is called "Aid and Attendance" for veterans. It is a monthly amount to pay for in-home assistance for those not able to take care of daily chores by themselves. If you are a veteran, look it up.

[mraines]

Originally Posted by ROCKETMAN

I’m sure some of you have these questions or have actually experienced these circumstances. I am talking about Medicare nursing facilities, not private. Private ones run about $9000.00 a month so for me that’s out of the equation. Been to seminars where they tell you you can protect your assets including sale of your house and just your s.security will cover cost. A lawyer quoted me $5000 to do the paperwork. My lawyer who has done my wills in a phone conversation asked me why I would I spend $5000 and have no idea if I would or my spouse would ever go in a nursing home. You can fill out the paper work the day before you would go in or even after you go in. My lawyer does not charge like the ones in fancy offices, has a small office in a tiny strip mall in Eustis. Used to be in summer field but closed that one.

Be careful.

[Cliff Fr]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Are you saying that people who follow the rules shouldn't take advantage of a Government benefit, like Medicaid? Medicaid allows them to gift their money to avoid paying for nursing home care out of pocket. If done timely and correctly, they are entitled to the benefit.

Medicaid was setup for people who are very poor or destitute. By hiding or giving away money or assets you are ripping off the government and the taxpayers.

[mraines]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I partially agree with you. But nursing homes are basically Government Medicaid-funded facilities. The nursing homes do the bare minimum to comply with Government rules and it is the nursing home owners who are getting rich. If you move into a nursing home with $100,000 in life savings, it will be gone in about a year or so, and then the Government will be paying the nursing home through Medicaid. You will be broke and won't even be able to go out to dinner or buy a TV or a piece of furniture. But, if you can gift that money to your heirs, they can help you out by spending some of the money on you. (hopefully?)

If you need a nursing home, would you be going out to dinner or buying furniture? That would make you healthy enough for assisted living.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Cliff Fr

Medicaid was setup for people who are very poor or destitute. By hiding or giving away money or assets you are ripping off the government and the taxpayers.

It is not ripping off the Government if you follow the rules that the Government established within the program. And, people have every right to give away their money to anyone they want. I would also point out that, in 2023, 91 million people were enrolled in Medicaid, not just the very poor or destitute.

[mraines]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

I have always thought along your same line of thinking, thought I must be the only one who thinks it strange that people would NOT want to pay for the care they receive (from any provider actually), yet find it morally sound to try to hide, or "get rid of" assets they have worked for all their lives and saved for the 'what if's", what IF I have to have nursing home care, etc. ? When people divest themselves of assets, surely SOMEONE has to pay the people who work in nursing homes ? If the people receiving care have money but don't want to pay, who then pays ? ? Isn't that similar to going to the doctor and needing heart surgery to save your life, but after the surgery you don't want to pay the surgeon for services rendered ? I can't help but think somehow, some body, must pay to build and staff nursing facilities !

These are the same people who begrudge needy people being on welfare or help for those less fortunate.