[Aces4]

Originally Posted by sharonl7340

I have to say that you have had no experience with this. Medicaid makes you liquidate all of the assets, including the home and land that have been in your family for 5 generations, and anything else of value, including your great-grandmother's ring. I didn't mind paying our fair share, but why does it not preserve some assets? It takes everything you have (including that cushy 2nd home you have) to get the bare minimum of care. Otherwise, you are forced to care for your loved one at home with around-the-clock care when your loved one cannot speak, chew, move, or have any kind of quality of life.

I get angry when I read these kinds of posts. You have never been there, you don't know the anguish, the agony, the exhaustion. And to say there should be wards with beds with shared bathroom facilities is ludicrous. When my mom was mobile, there was plenty of time there was feces and urine everywhere because she had no control. We cleaned the bathroom 5-6 times per day many weeks.

You people don't know what you are talking about. You are assuming that the loved ones in these situations can walk, talk, feed themselves, and entertain themselves. IT. IS. NOT. TRUE! They reach points where they can not even chew and swallow but still don't qualify for full-time skilled nursing care because you provided TOO well for your spouse to be taken care of. I will get off my rant now, but go visit the nursing homes and follow the CNA around for a day and see if your mind changes.

I have seen nursing homes and elder care. In our situation, generational assets were sold to family members who wanted to preserve and live in that generational home. The profits held by the owner were then used to pay for long term and memory care. That is the purpose of providing for one's old age.

My statement about wards for patients was meant for achieving care for every senior in this country if we all go on the public dole. And there will never be adequate care because enough caretakers cannot be hired to handle each personal situation. There isn't enough money to make most people do that difficult work.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I don't disagree with you. But, that is the system the people voted for. Every time someone proposes to cut it, it is soundly defeated. These programs continue to grow and grow, and most people don't know it, but the ACA greatly expanded Medicaid. I don't know what you mean by a loophole, but that is the way the program works. The Government could eliminate any "loophole" they want to.

That's all well and good but just remember when you're receiving terrible care in overcrowded, underfunded facilities from loopholes you don't understand, your Government had your back.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Not empty your bank account? This past year, a friend paid $30 per hour for around the clock care, plus time-and-a-half overtime, which coincidentally happened every week. That’s over $5000 PER WEEK. I’d say that would empty a bank account! Our biggest asset is our home so no giving heirs their share. We will most likely utilize the state financed route. According to our attorney, you choose the facility.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Aces4

That's all well and good but just remember when you're receiving terrible care in overcrowded, underfunded facilities from loopholes you don't understand, your Government had your back.

If you are calling planned "gifting" a loophole, I have to disagree. Planned gifting to become eligible for Medicaid and other benefits has been the name of the game for many years. If the Government disapproved of it, they could have changed the law years ago. Hiding assets is illegal, but planned gifting is not.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

If you are calling planned "gifting" a loophole, I have to disagree. Planned gifting to become eligible for Medicaid and other benefits has been the name of the game for many years. If the Government disapproved of it, they could have changed the law years ago. Hiding assets is illegal, but planned gifting is not.

Planned gifting? That's an insult to everyone's intelligence and it is exactly that, hiding assets in one's children or mistress or whomever.

[RoseyRed]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According to the dictionary, shenanigans are "secret or dishonest activity or maneuvering". I don't condone shenanigans. But, I don't see anything wrong with following the Medicaid law to a person's best advantage. There are 91 million people currently enrolled in the Medicaid program. These are not just poor people. If you are eligible for a Government benefit, why not use it? And, if the Government wants children to take care of their parents, why pay for their nursing home care? Change the law.

Your point of view is one to consider. I have worked and paid taxes my entire life with NO welfare, even though I could have due to physical issues. Many family members are irresponsible and depend on my tax money to keep them up which infuriates me! If someone is disabled or in a low time of their life that is one thing, but looking to the government (my taxes) to keep them up is another! How many welfare recipients truly deserve my tax money? How many are too proud to ask for help? With that in mind, I agree with following the law to the best advantage for us law abiding tax paying citizens

[Sandrak]

Wonderful solution.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by RoseyRed

Your point of view is one to consider. I have worked and paid taxes my entire life with NO welfare, even though I could have due to physical issues. Many family members are irresponsible and depend on my tax money to keep them up which infuriates me! If someone is disabled or in a low time of their life that is one thing, but looking to the government (my taxes) to keep them up is another! How many welfare recipients truly deserve my tax money? How many are too proud to ask for help? With that in mind, I agree with following the law to the best advantage for us law abiding tax paying citizens

Just fine, and as stated earlier, get ready for horrific care and circumstances because there isn't enough money to float that canoe if everyone gets on board. After what I've read about the devious intentions here, I'll look into the same scheme and pass the word. Good luck!

BTW, if there are divorces in your family after you have "gifted" your assets, the departing spouse will be very grateful to you.

[Plinker]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According to the dictionary, shenanigans are "secret or dishonest activity or maneuvering". I don't condone shenanigans. But, I don't see anything wrong with following the Medicaid law to a person's best advantage. There are 91 million people currently enrolled in the Medicaid program. These are not just poor people. If you are eligible for a Government benefit, why not use it? And, if the Government wants children to take care of their parents, why pay for their nursing home care? Change the law.

I agree.
Since when does following the law set up by state and federal legislators cause you to be labeled a grifter? Could they not amend the rules if they chose to? I have no issue with those who decide to spend down all of their assets to pay for care as they age but I am not in that group if there are laws that offer an alternative.

[BumpaOompa]

For whatever reason some people don’t pay for insurance. They don’t have home insurance and when the house burns down or a hurricane destroys it they hold their hand out. They don’t have auto insurance and when they get in an accident they hold their hand out. They don’t have long-term care insurance and when they need it they hold their hand out. I realize insurance is expensive and not everyone wants to make those payments but if you don’t pay for the insurance you need then accept the consequences for the path you chose instead of trying to scheme a way around it.

[ithos]

Originally Posted by RoseyRed

Who pays for the nursing homes? Our tax dollars. We have all paid taxes for years right?

Yes but we also voted for politicians who have created a government debt of 37 trillion dollars and made commitments which have created unfunded liabilities of over 70 trillion dollars.

Eventually it may be Social Security that might be at risk. Let's hope AI comes to the rescue.

[kingofbeer]

Originally Posted by Plinker

I agree.
Since when does following the law set up by state and federal legislators cause you to be labeled a grifter? Could they not amend the rules if they chose to? I have no issue with those who decide to spend down all of their assets to pay for care as they age but I am not in that group if there are laws that offer an alternative.

My experience spending down my mother's asset to get her "medicaid" eligible was horrible. In retrospect, I would have only had 1 checking account for her. And one savings account. She had multiple accounts, and ira's etc. Because I had to send the state's medicaid department 5 years worth of statements printed out which was hundreds of pages. She was in assisted living for a few years. My mom entered the hospital, went to the rehab in the nursing home for a while. I think you need to go to hospital first, then rehab, then transition over to nursing home. Because my sister decided a nursing home would be best for her. Plus, my sister was good friends with the president of this well established, expensive, clean nursing home. Because my system was friends with someone on the inside, which allowed my mom to enter quickly, normally there is a 1 to 2 year waiting list for this facility. Once her assets where spent down, she was on medicaid. But the nursing home did not give me any legal advice or anything. They told me to contact an attorney which I did not want to do. Best thing to do is spend down, well in advance of entry into a nursing. However, this is hard to anticipate.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Plinker

I agree.
Since when does following the law set up by state and federal legislators cause you to be labeled a grifter? Could they not amend the rules if they chose to? I have no issue with those who decide to spend down all of their assets to pay for care as they age but I am not in that group if there are laws that offer an alternative.

Yeah, this free loading has been going on for a long time. Just depends if one wants to stick one's toe into the yellow river.

I saw a couple sell a large acreage, buildings and a home and then proceeded to hand all their money out to their kids who didn't need it. They proceeded to live in one of their daughter's basement, not a walkout, and hated it for the next 5 years. Then they went into low income housing, because they qualified... wink-wink, and he died within a short time from cancer. She lived into her nineties in that less than lovely situation. Neither one of them needed nursing home care that wasn't covered. But they sure shot a hole in what should have been some of the nicest years of their life. To each their own.

[Lea N]

Originally Posted by ROCKETMAN

I’m sure some of you have these questions or have actually experienced these circumstances. I am talking about Medicare nursing facilities, not private. Private ones run about $9000.00 a month so for me that’s out of the equation. Been to seminars where they tell you you can protect your assets including sale of your house and just your s.security will cover cost. A lawyer quoted me $5000 to do the paperwork. My lawyer who has done my wills in a phone conversation asked me why I would I spend $5000 and have no idea if I would or my spouse would ever go in a nursing home. You can fill out the paper work the day before you would go in or even after you go in. My lawyer does not charge like the ones in fancy offices, has a small office in a tiny strip mall in Eustis. Used to be in summer field but closed that one.

Talk with an elder care attorney about every detail. Medicaid has a lookback period of 5 years. Any money you give away during the five year period is your responsibility to pay if needed in a nursing home. You are allowed to keep your home, and your car - or it used to be that way. You are allowed living expense money and it used to be $2K a month, I believe. Not sure what it is today.

When I was a caregiver to my father we met with an elder care attorney. She gave us the laws that were in place at that time. She told me to call her every few months to find out if any laws had changed and if we needed to do anything because of the new laws.

Another option that doesn't work for everyone, if you want to stay in your home is to pay someone that you know and trust to take care of you at an hourly rate that is usually minimum wage or a little above minimum wage. If there is a family member you trust, and they are able and willing to take care of you this might be an option. If you go this route the caregiver must keep excellent and detailed records involving the work they do. Most caregivers don't want the added hassle. This isn't for everyone. I had a friend a long time ago that did this for their spouse and it worked for them. The caregiver gets paid for taking care of their loved one at home, cooking, cleaning, dressing, bathing, medication management, travel to doctors, grocery shopping, etc. Since taxes aren't taken out of their income they would have to talk with a CPA ahead of time. An elder care attorney can give you more insight into this option.

[Arlington2]

Originally Posted by Lea N

I had a friend a long time ago that did this for their spouse and it worked for them. The caregiver gets paid for taking care of their loved one at home, cooking, cleaning, dressing, bathing, medication management, travel to doctors, grocery shopping, etc. Since taxes aren't taken out of their income they would have to talk with a CPA ahead of time.

Interesting, but I don't understand the merit of this. If the caretaker is a spouse they usually have joint ownership of assets. Is this intended as a means to spend down? Or is there some other reason to pay the spouse?