[KayakerNC]

Originally Posted by bluedog103

The ignore list works wonders in eliminating irritating posts and posters. Mine isn't long, only 3-4 names but it's very effective.

Call me skeptical, but I'd rather trust my MD then some anonymous poster proselytizing their belief systems.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Yes, I'm glad you asked. I have a great story to tell. An in law of mine was diagnosed with cardiovascular disease. He was waiting to be called by his doctor's office to be scheduled for heart by pass surgery.

Testing showed that he had one artery near his heart that was about 80 or 85% clogged. And the way it was affecting him is that he would get exhausted by the least bit of activity. Just walking around in the house would get him exhausted, whereas he used to do all his own yard work and play golf.

When I heard he was going to be scheduled for heart surgery, I asked if the doctor gave him any other options. He said, "no". So I asked if he had ever heard of dietary measures for reversing heart disease. Again, he said, "no".
So I loaned him a book (from my extensive library of health books ) to inform him of how to go about it. Of course he was skeptical but after reading the first chapter, he was hooked.

He started the diet and canceled the heart surgery. To my surprise, the results were amazingly fast. After a few weeks he was feeling much better and doing light household chores. Soon he was back to cutting his own grass again and playing golf with friends. In other words, the clogged arteries were gradually becoming unclogged.

This is just another example of a doctor dumbing down his patient. And there's a heart doctor with a weekly radio program who basically does the same.

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Call me skeptical, but I'd rather trust my MD then some anonymous poster proselytizing their belief systems.

.....

.......and calling MD's advice to have surgery for an acute need/blockage "dumbing down the patient". Duhhhhh.....

If the patient has a fatal heart attack while reading Page One of the (valid) dietary book, the (valid) diet sure ain't gonna do him much good!!!!!

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by donkobes

His approach is real and demands research to back up any nutritional claims made.

Agree, here's 30 year of it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CncI5j5QzVg]The China Study - YouTube[/ame]

The China Study is a book by Dr. T. Colin Campbell, Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University, and his son, Thomas M. Campbell II, a physician. It examines the relationship between the consumption of animal products and illnesses such as cancers of the breast, prostate, and bowel, diabetes, coronary heart disease, obesity, autoimmune disease, osteoporosis, degenerative brain disease, and macular degeneration. The book had sold 500,000 copies as of January 2011, making it one of America's best-selling books about nutrition.


But you with along with your doctors consult should decide.

I'm only exchanging ideas, I was surprised that in 4 days there are 2500 page views, so there is an interest at TV.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

.....If the patient has a fatal heart attack while reading Page One of the (valid) dietary book, the (valid) diet sure ain't gonna do him much good!!!!![

Foe sure, but what if that patient read it 6 months earlier?

You know I read someplace that doctors that are eating vegan style stopped telling most of their patients about it because they just won't try to change they way they eat, drugs are easy.

You may wish to think about reading some of current thinking on the subject and make an informed decision.

No one can show any evidence that it has a negative effect on your health.

[ariel]

[QUOTE=jimbo2012;504071]Gracie, do you really think anyone would do that without consulting a Dr.?

Unfortunately, yes. Having been in health care for 40 years I've seen too many times "desperation" move people in a dangerous direction - people buy medications off the internet, go to other countries for unproven/untested treatment and fear of a surgery could make someone postpone it in hopes of another course of action working for them.

Hopefully, the individual in question was being monitored closely by his MD during his dietary approach to ensure the 80% blockage didn't progress to 100%. Research in diet and nutrition is bringing us good information that we should pay attention to; but let's not dismiss the life-saving treatments - drugs and procedures - that have also been the result of research and proven to save lives and improve quality of life.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I feel in my heart you mean well, but this kind of anecdotal information is not only terribly misleading but dangerous.

Excuse me, but I thought you were asking for something anecdotal. Were you asking for a clinical study?

You would never want to be the cause of someone's harming himself by accepting this story at face value, I just know you would not. We must be so careful in our giving advice like this.

This wasn't advice. This was a story about someone who decided, on his own, to try reversing his clogged arteries by employing dietary measures.

There are all kinds of degrees to everything.

Really?

A cardiologist and only a cardiologist could make that call.

I disagree. Evidently, my relative made the call. And the outcome was successful. Whether he talked it over with his doctor first is his business.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by lightworker888

FWIW Just noticed an article that I thought might interest some of you out there. It is from May/12 on Dr. Mercola's site. (mercola.com) He is a medical doctor who really walks his talk. His info is always well researched and if things change, he updates. His mission is to get the info out so you can take responsibility for yourself. His products are great but it is not necessary to purchase in order to get the newsletter. IMHO his video interviews are excellent and all suggestions are worth considering. See how it fits into your belief system and if it makes sense to you.

Over Half of Your Diet Should Consist of Saturated Fats


LW888

I went to his website about 9 or 10 years ago and was turned off by all the products he was selling. He's running a business and I always wonder what comes first, the health of his business or the health of his customers. If there's ever a conflict between science and business, which side will he come down on? I don't want to read his advice and always have to wonder where his allegiance is.

[lightworker888]

I've been reading him for that long too and I still find his research and ideas valid. I used to be upset about the products, but I realize that they help fund his site and I have found them of good quality, so now I just accept that they go with the territory, but I can still get the info without feeling pushed to buy the product. I still like his Vit D spray and generally use it, and his video clips are usually well ahead of the general media so I like that. He also will update if there is new or different information. I think the only thing that I don't agree with is his stand on RO. We used it for years and then discovered that it really affected our PH so we use more alkaline water now and watch our PH. The veggie broth helps that of course! But I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath and moderation is really my guide when I read Mercola or anyone else.

LW888

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by skyc6

In this day and age, I don't feel that a government funded study can be said to be "unbiased!"

I guess that means that you won't waste your time reading, "The China Study" because your mind is already made up. You lke the study funded by the food industry.

Villages PL--your delivery implies that you don't think anyone knows anything but you and it is your job to inform everyone how to live their life.

My delivery implies what?

It is one thing to have a message, but if you can't give a kind, compassionate delivery of said message, it becomes a moot point.

I believe a kind, compassionate delivery is one that tells it like it is rather than having someone think that science doesn't matter. You don't appear to have much respect for science.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

The grandchildren did indeed , and still do, eat whole fruit as you mention. All varieties of fruit, plus raw veggies. They are always chomping on an apple, pear or grapes. Oranges too. Melons in season. Ditto for carrots, cucumbers, etc. and even raw broccoli.
Vermont is an apple producing state.

However, they also drank milk and apple juice and water. NO SODA.
Apple juice always was the beverage of choice for toddlers. I have read the pros and the cons on the subject....but that's what they drank so that is what I purchased to keep in the frig when they arrived to visit.

They all were breast fed as well....and delivered by midwives. The parents are well aware of healthy food choices......but little ones in school and at their friends' homes do drink apple juice.

I was just grossed out by HOW FAST that circular multi colored mold pattern developed......that's when I did my research on the particular organism that grows in apple products........and was shocked that apple juice is made from the droppings........or at least that brand was.

One cautionary tale about Price Chopper also........we just returned from shopping.......it's quite humid out as it is each morning, but not a high temperature.......but muggy in the store........it appears to be that they turn down the refrigeration in the cases and freezers, and produce displays, etc.......OVERNIGHT........if you go early as we did, and other people also were commenting..........everything is warm to the touch or melting..........then the store must turn it back on again later morning.
Sales staff said this is cost cutting measures. I would think it would allow many unhealthy organisms to grow.

All food is suspect nowadays, even healthy veggies.

I used to love cantalupes.......until a few years ago when I read about the salmonella passed down into the fruit via the cutting knife.......ditto for watermelon. So, how can any of us be sure our HEALTHY FOOD is safe to consume?

I never buy anything that is "low fat" or "artificial sweetener" as all of that aspartame, etc. is not healthy either.

Moderation is the key in all things in life......not to be a fanatic or spartan about anything. Even organic produce can be suspect.

I agree. I once bought necterines that came from chile. As soon as I got home from the store I tried one. While eating it, I got a strange uncomfortable feeling in my throat. My throat was slowly getting sore but I tried to ignore it. Finally, it was so bad I looked at my throat in the mirror. The back of my throat was bright red.

So I called the county health department and talked to someone who sounded very knowledgeable. He said countries in south America sometimes (maybe often?) use waste water to irrigate their crops. This water contains feces. And no amount of washing the fruit will get the bacteria out. It gets absorbed into the fruit. After a couple of years went by I accidently tried another necterine from Chile and got the same type of rash. Grapes from Chile will also give me a sore throat. So, as much as possible, I try to avoid buying fruit and vegetables from south America.

This may come under the heading of people being "dumbed down", as I don't think it's widely known. Perhaps I am more sensitive than the average person to whatever type of bacteria it is.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

Does his research include any clinical trials or data of his own or is it simply selected articles from his reading

So he says in that story fat is needed in a diet, who said it's not?

Are you saying a person can't Get Enough Fat Eating a Plant-based Diet?

Fat is present in all fruits, vegetables, and other plant foods.
Strawberries are 5 percent fat; bell peppers, 6 percent; broccoli, 8 percent; spinach, 11 percent; and soybeans, 41 percent. Several high-fat plant foods contain in excess of 80 percent fat, including certain nuts and seeds, as well as avocados, olives, and coconuts. By eating a delicious, plant-happy diet, you will consume roughly 9 to 15 percent of your total calories from fat, which is ideal.

Getting your fat from plant-based foods means you will be consuming healthy monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats as opposed to dangerous saturated fats. You will be able to eat more food than you ever dreamed of without gaining weight and feel wonderful!


Just a side note for you fight fans, Tim Bradly v Manny Pacquiao last night was won by a vegan!

That's very good information about fat. Sometimes I worry about not getting enough. But from now on, I don't think I will worry as much.

[ariel]

Fecal bacteria could make you very ill, but probably not likely to give you a sore throat. More likely that there was some type of irritant on the fruit to have resulted in an immediate local reaction.

I'm seldom comfortable with fruit or fish from South American sources.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Call me skeptical, but I'd rather trust my MD then some anonymous poster proselytizing their belief systems.

If only people would stop and think (instead of jumping to conclusions), or read the previous posts more carefully before replying. It would save a lot of unnecessary explaining.

I loaned my in-law a book to read as he was not yet scheduled for surgery. He could have died at any time during the previous year or months before his diagnosis. He could have died the day I gave him the book. He could have died while waiting to be put on the doctor's schedule. If he had been scheduled, he could have died on his way to the hospital. He could have died during the operation or after the operation, from a hospital infection.

Go back and read my story about him. Did you see anywhere in the story where I told him not to discuss this with his doctor? He's a reasonably intelligent adult and I am not his keeper. He no doubt talked it over with his wife.

When I gave him the book, it was doubtful that he would even read it as he appeared to be very dejected. I told him to just read the first chapter. Then if he didn't like it, he could just forget about it. However, I found out about 6 weeks later that he did read the whole book.

From the time I gave him the book to the time I heard from him, about six weeks had passed. His wife told me he was doing great because of the diet. I never thought it was necessary to ask them whether or not they consulted with their doctor first before going on the diet. That's totally their business and not ours. As I said, they are adults who are capable of making their own decissions.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

.....

.......and calling MD's advice to have surgery for an acute need/blockage "dumbing down the patient". Duhhhhh.....

If the patient has a fatal heart attack while reading Page One of the (valid) dietary book, the (valid) diet sure ain't gonna do him much good!!!!!

No need to get hysterical. Read my post to KayakerNC and stop jumping to conclusions.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I agree. I once bought necterines that came from chile. As soon as I got home from the store I tried one. While eating it, I got a strange uncomfortable feeling in my throat. My throat was slowly getting sore but I tried to ignore it. Finally, it was so bad I looked at my throat in the mirror. The back of my throat was brite red.

So I called the county health department and talked to someone who sounded very knowledgeable. He said countries in south America sometimes (maybe often?) use waste water to irrigate their crops. This water contains feces. And no amount of washing the fruit will get the bacteria out. It gets absorbed into the fruit. After a couple of years went by I accidently tried another necterine from Chile and got the same type of rash. Grapes from Chile will also give me a sore throat. So, as much as possible, I try to avoid buying fruit and vegetables from south America.

This may come under the heading of people being "dumbed down", as I don't think it's widely known. Perhaps I am more sensitive than the average person to whatever type of bacteria it is.

I agree; I also avoid buying fruits and veggies from Chile, etc., etc.
I've also read about them using waste water.....Mexico also.

However, with profit being the bottom line, these stores order their produce from the cheapest supplier.

As I mentioned a few days ago, I couldn't understand why our big supermarket chain was getting their APPLES for their brand name APPLE JUICE from CHINA.....when their own state of New York plus neighboring Vermont, both produce beautiful apples. It's all about profit.

Shop the local farmers markets. Obviously we won't be getting too many tropical fruits but cantalupes do grow very well up here....and in N.Y.

Soap and water on the purchased fruits or a fruit cleanser would be wise.

This is why people do drink juice, hoping it's been pastuerized.

I recall a case where several women died after drinking organic carrot juice.......so, who knows? What one thinks is healthy isn't necessarily so.

It is troubling.

Next time you have a sore throat, slice up some raw garlic and chew it down. It does work. Garlic is a powerful antibiotic.