[frayedends]

I don't disagree with a lot of what's posted, but there is a reason keto and carnivore diets work.

It is very well known fact that carbs increase insulin, and once sugars are stored as fat we end up craving more carbs. Eating carbs makes you crave more carbs. That is the reason people have trouble sticking to a moderate diet including carbs.

It doesn't help people with a carb addiction to say, "Just eat less. Just eat whole foods including carbs." They crave more carbs and more carbs and more carbs. I know this from personal experience. If I start eating pasta I can keep eating it way beyond a healthy portion. If I eat a piece of candy, god forbid, I could eat the whole bag.

So while a well rounded calorie restrictive diet will work on paper, the reality is that it doesn't work for many people. Once you become fat adapted on a keto diet you stop craving carbs. While I'm doing keto I can have a loaf of bread, a snickers bar, a bag of chips all plopped down in front of me and I have zero interest in those things. That is why it is successful for so many people. In addition the high fat diet keeps you satiated longer. I can go 1 meal a day with no problem on keto. When I'm on a carb diet I want to eat all day long.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by JRcorvette

Most people are totally clueless about what is healthy to eat and they just don’t care. When I sit in a doctor’s office and look around 90% of the people there are grossly overweight.

Thanks for noticing me. Next time say "Hello".

[Randall55]

Originally Posted by frayedends

I don't disagree with a lot of what's posted, but there is a reason keto and carnivore diets work.

It is very well known fact that carbs increase insulin, and once sugars are stored as fat we end up craving more carbs. Eating carbs makes you crave more carbs. That is the reason people have trouble sticking to a moderate diet including carbs.

It doesn't help people with a carb addiction to say, "Just eat less. Just eat whole foods including carbs." They crave more carbs and more carbs and more carbs. I know this from personal experience. If I start eating pasta I can keep eating it way beyond a healthy portion. If I eat a piece of candy, god forbid, I could eat the whole bag.

So while a well rounded calorie restrictive diet will work on paper, the reality is that it doesn't work for many people. Once you become fat adapted on a keto diet you stop craving carbs. While I'm doing keto I can have a loaf of bread, a snickers bar, a bag of chips all plopped down in front of me and I have zero interest in those things. That is why it is successful for so many people. In addition the high fat diet keeps you satiated longer. I can go 1 meal a day with no problem on keto. When I'm on a carb diet I want to eat all day long.

Many of us stated processed foods should be avoided. The diet you have found is new to you. I am glad it is working for you. I grew up on a farm where fresh food was served daily. I hate the taste of processed foods and do not understand their appeal. If you continue to eat fresh foods, most likely you will begin to dislike the taste of processed foods. If you do not like a food, it is easy to avoid. Good Luck!

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Randall55

Many of us stated processed foods should be avoided. The diet you have found is new to you. I am glad it is working for you. I grew up on a farm where fresh food was served daily. I hate the taste of processed foods and do not understand their appeal. If you continue to eat fresh foods, most likely you will begin to dislike the taste of processed foods. If you do not like a food, it is easy to avoid. Good Luck!

If not for all the preservatives in processed foods I'd have died years ago.

It's just an old joke I decided to recycle. Hope somebody got a chuckle out of it.

Actually, I'm an "all things in moderation" (except for Brussels sprouts) guy. Go with what works for you. Share, but don't preach.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by Randall55

Many of us stated processed foods should be avoided. The diet you have found is new to you. I am glad it is working for you. I grew up on a farm where fresh food was served daily. I hate the taste of processed foods and do not understand their appeal. If you continue to eat fresh foods, most likely you will begin to dislike the taste of processed foods. If you do not like a food, it is easy to avoid. Good Luck!

Not sure where I said this was new to me. I guess 3 years could be considered new. You are right on processed foods. They taste gross after eating whole foods. Anyone looking to improve their health should start there.

[ithos]

Originally Posted by frayedends

I don't disagree with a lot of what's posted, but there is a reason keto and carnivore diets work.

It is very well known fact that carbs increase insulin, and once sugars are stored as fat we end up craving more carbs. Eating carbs makes you crave more carbs. That is the reason people have trouble sticking to a moderate diet including carbs.

It doesn't help people with a carb addiction to say, "Just eat less. Just eat whole foods including carbs." They crave more carbs and more carbs and more carbs. I know this from personal experience. If I start eating pasta I can keep eating it way beyond a healthy portion. If I eat a piece of candy, god forbid, I could eat the whole bag.

So while a well rounded calorie restrictive diet will work on paper, the reality is that it doesn't work for many people. Once you become fat adapted on a keto diet you stop craving carbs. While I'm doing keto I can have a loaf of bread, a snickers bar, a bag of chips all plopped down in front of me and I have zero interest in those things. That is why it is successful for so many people. In addition the high fat diet keeps you satiated longer. I can go 1 meal a day with no problem on keto. When I'm on a carb diet I want to eat all day long.

"

Absolutely nothing you stated is applicable to a "whole foods, plant based diet." No one is advocating for processed foods. Whole food carbs suppress my appetite for up to 24 hours. If I were eating junk food like potato chips it would be a different story.

But is it too much to ask that you cite credible references which prove that a carnivore diets result in long term benefits such as reversing heart disease, eliminating insulin resistance, curing auto immune diseases, increasing longevity and dramatically reducing the odds of getting cancer?

And again, what about your kidneys? There are many articles about it in Pubmed.
Although high-protein diets continue to be popular for weight loss and type 2 diabetes, evidence suggests that worsening renal function may occur in individuals with-and perhaps without-impaired kidney function. High dietary protein intake can cause intraglomerular hypertension, which may result in kidney hyperfiltration, glomerular injury, and proteinuria. It is possible that long-term high protein intake may lead to de novo CKD. The quality of dietary protein may also play a role in kidney health. Compared with protein from plant sources, animal protein has been associated with an increased risk of ESKD in several observational studies, including the Singapore Chinese Health Study.

The Effects of High-Protein Diets on Kidney Health and Longevity - PubMed

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by ithos

"

Absolutely nothing you stated is applicable to a "whole foods, plant based diet." No one is advocating for processed foods. Whole food carbs suppress my appetite for up to 24 hours. If I were eating junk food like potato chips it would be a different story.

But is it too much to ask that you cite credible references which prove that a carnivore diets result in long term benefits such as reversing heart disease, eliminating insulin resistance, curing auto immune diseases, increasing longevity and dramatically reducing the odds of getting cancer?

And again, what about your kidneys? There are many articles about it in Pubmed.
Although high-protein diets continue to be popular for weight loss and type 2 diabetes, evidence suggests that worsening renal function may occur in individuals with-and perhaps without-impaired kidney function. High dietary protein intake can cause intraglomerular hypertension, which may result in kidney hyperfiltration, glomerular injury, and proteinuria. It is possible that long-term high protein intake may lead to de novo CKD. The quality of dietary protein may also play a role in kidney health. Compared with protein from plant sources, animal protein has been associated with an increased risk of ESKD in several observational studies, including the Singapore Chinese Health Study.

The Effects of High-Protein Diets on Kidney Health and Longevity - PubMed

Apparently you are looking for an argument that I wasn't trying to make.

[ithos]

Originally Posted by frayedends

Apparently you are looking for an argument that I wasn't trying to make.

I apologize then. When you wrote this

It is very well known fact that carbs increase insulin, and once sugars are stored as fat we end up craving more carbs. Eating carbs makes you crave more carbs. That is the reason people have trouble sticking to a moderate diet including carbs.

It doesn't help people with a carb addiction to say, "Just eat less. Just eat whole foods including carbs." They crave more carbs and more carbs and more carbs.


It did seem like it was applicable to my comments.

[ithos]

Originally Posted by frayedends

Apparently you are looking for an argument that I wasn't trying to make.

I do welcome criticism or challenges to my opinions since that is how I will find out if I am wrong or inaccurate. I do believe that in matters of science such as this topic, any statements should be confirmed or supported by credible evidence.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by ithos

I do welcome criticism or challenges to my opinions since that is how I will find out if I am wrong or inaccurate. I do believe that in matters of science such as this topic, any statements should be confirmed or supported by credible evidence.

Well all I can say is first, regarding full on carnivore diet, my only assertion is that it is a good elimination diet for people with auto-immune or other unresolved issues that could be related to diet. I don't think it's sustainable, unless of course, someone has cured an auto-immune issue. There are some people like Jordan Peterson and his daughter who swear that it cured all of their issues. There are tons more touting the benefits online.

Apart from that there is a bit of shortage of long term study. All I can say is that most people touting keto are saying it fixed their blood work with the exception of LDL cholesterol possibly being higher. There is also info out there showing that LDL being high isn't necessarily a bad thing and genetics plays a big part.

What I know is my A1C dropped from 5.7 to 5.0. My glucose was usually around 120. Last reading was 86. My HDL went up to normal, my LDL stayed about the same (a bit high). My triglycerides dropped to normal. My blood pressure went from 180/110 to about 140/85. I dropped ~35 lbs. All this and I don't crave food at all.

All of the effects of a keto diet that happened to me are exactly what I was told would happen based on lots of reading and videos from the folks pushing keto. They sold me no books, they sold me no diet plans. My doctor no longer pushes drugs (except statins because they are basically drug dealers).

The only thing I have noticed that can be a problem is carb addiction. The times I've eaten carbs (usually a holiday or party) I end up craving more and more and it takes a bit to get back on track.


Regarding studies, including those in Pubmed, one has to be very careful reading the data and the people being studied and what controls were in place. Even the article you posted had a lot of "may occur" "may result" and "is possible". They didn't cite any specific results confirming these hypothesis. At the end of the day we all have to research what is best and most sustainable for us. If I could keep a diet including carbs like potatoes, rice, etc. I'd be all for it. But for me, whether it be weak will power, or an addictive genetics, I need to cut carbs almost completely to stay on track.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by ithos

I do welcome criticism or challenges to my opinions since that is how I will find out if I am wrong or inaccurate. I do believe that in matters of science such as this topic, any statements should be confirmed or supported by credible evidence.

Hmm. Good that you welcome alternative views. "Credible evidence", is, subject to opinion. For some individuals, evidence is only credible if it coincides with their own beliefs or supports their point of view.

[DrMack]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

OK! But where do the eclairs come in?

I can tell you where the best ones come from, Bova’s on Salem Street

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by DrMack

I can tell you where the best ones come from, Bova’s on Salem Street

Thanks, Doc!

[ithos]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Hmm. Good that you welcome alternative views. "Credible evidence", is, subject to opinion. For some individuals, evidence is only credible if it coincides with their own beliefs or supports their point of view.

You are correct. I should have said established medical research protocols that have been validated over time and free of external influences driven by a dishonest agenda. The Global warming alarmist campaign is a prime example of how scientists and researchers can be corrupted. But they can get away with their rigged computer GIGO models since the atmosphere can not be subjected to a randomized double blinded placebo or epidemiology studies that are used in medical research.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by ithos

You are correct. I should have said established medical research protocols that have been validated over time and free of external influences driven by a dishonest agenda. The Global warming alarmist campaign is a prime example of how scientists and researchers can be corrupted. But they can get away with their rigged computer GIGO models since the atmosphere can not be subjected to a randomized double blinded placebo or epidemiology studies that are used in medical research.

Sorry I said anything. I'm afraid we are drifting from the topic of this thread. My Bad.