[billethkid]

in this forum
Seems it is just too deeply ingrained for some to manage...it does interrupt positive thinking does it not?

And my closing response to the uninformed is to only repeat what was obviously not digested the first time and is so very, VERY true as confirmed by the snap back....

"...does not fit the intended's measuring profile and will at times most likely disagree with the position of the measuring individual, hence triggering the usual partisan barrage..."

As demonstrated time and again. See ya in the political arena!

BTK

[serenityseeker]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Is it for seniors who are on Medicare?
Or for those who can not afford health care?

Isn't life, like it or not, based on what one can afford?

Anyway if the abuse of the current programs were dealt with, there would be substantial amounts of moneys available for better coverages.

However, how does any system intended to benefit those who cannot pay not in turn negatively affect those who have found a way to pay all their lives?
Remember in the can't afford group are those who choose not to pay and do other things with their $$$. They will free load like they do all the other freebies.

This problem will not be solved. Once again we are contemplating wrecking a system that works for the majority to take care of the minority.

The good of the many forsaken for the good of a few....does not work!!!


BTK

This is such an outdated argument on so many levels.
The point is to provide an opportunity for basic health care for all. The fact is we have a ridiculously fractured and ineffcient system that provides relatively little for the massive amount of doallars spent. There are several countries that spend less than us and provide overall better care by internatinally accepted standards.
Wrecking a system that works???? For who? Perhaps you but not not for about a million working families that can't afford health care, not for those stuck with only medicaire on extremely fixed incomes, not for children whose families are to poor to get care. It is a pitiful shame that our country is so poor in our response to this situation with these groups among others.
This is not about "..freeload like they do all the other freebies". We are not talking about people who "refuse to pay and do other things with there dollars" as the majority. I know, I live and work and watch people struggle and die within this system EVERY DAY with finacial constraints being a large contributer.
Those of us in the real world of medicine, in the trenches every day, know this is NOT a "system that works" by almost any measure. This isn't about punishing welfare abusers, this is about doing the right thing for our country, our healthcare system, and the providers struggling within that system. Health care and its provision require ethical considerations that don't fit the "I've got mine, you do the best you can to get yours" model, nor does it fit traditional and corporate models in a cookie cutter fashion.
The abuse within the programs certainly should be culled, as or even more importantly so should the overwhelming stifling beauracratic stranglehold that is likely one of the biggest culprits along with immoral and greedy insurance companies, HMO's, PPO's and more.
Cudo's to countries that took responsibility to make sure the health care of the people (ALL, not just the rich or those on welfare) was a priority. Cudos to them for delivering in a more efficient and humane way with better outcomes than we have been able to do thus far.
No system is perfect but to ascertain that ours is working just fine is so far from the truth as to be ludicrous.

[BuckeyeNuts]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I'm a Canadian seasonal resident in The Villages, from October to April each year.

Our Canadian medical system is absolutely wonderful ... no question about that!! All health care is free, including doctor's visits, yearly physicals, catscans, MRIs, etc. If you have a serious illness, you will immediately go to the "head of the line" and receive the very finest in medical care!

Canadians may have to wait a bit longer for "optional" operations such as hip and knee replacements. Wealthy Canadians sometimes opt to visit the US to pay for these procedures so they can have them immediately.

But if you have a heart attack, stroke, car accident, cancer, or any type of catastrophy ... the medical system is 100%! And I speak from personal experience.

What are the costs for prescription drugs? Just wondering how they handle that...are they covered 100 percent as well?

[BuckeyeNuts]

Originally Posted by Muncle

Does everyone have a "right" to all health care? Do all have the "right" to the same or equal health care? Is there a situation when especially expensive health procedures should be more readily available to those who have more resources to pay for them? Should "elective" procedures be available only to those with financial resources? When the time comes to prioritize certain procedures like organ replacement, should the patient's past or lifestyle be a determining factor (long-time smoker, high-pressure job, bad eating habits, drug use, homosexual promiscuity) and who should make these decisions? What about age? Any other social considerations?





`

I don't think that everyone should have the right to a free, universal health care. I think certain criteria should be met. I think you should be a U.S. citizen to get free U.S. health care. Would Canada treat me for free?

There should be some set of universal rules that people must comply with to have these privileges...shouldn't there? Man, I sure wouldn't want that job...Being a taxpayer might help to pay for some of the expenses...but how can you exclude non taxpayers? This is such a huge question...the system is so messed up...and for so long...it could be beyond fixing. A single aspirin costs 10 bucks in some hospitals! [Which is a good deal compared to what our Army spends on paper clips]

Shady lawyers sued the medical profession out of its soul. People that poison there bodies with cigarettes and alcohol, yet have no money or insurance have been sucking the taxpayers teat until it is bone dry. Just go to the county hospital...they have to take you...pay the bill? Yeah, right. And all of those illegal aliens...great...we are paying for them as well.

First, we need to find a way to lower the costs. If we cannot do that...how can we afford it? Then, you just about have to include EVERYBODY. Smokers and all. How can we discriminate about health care? We are to help the least amongst us...

[JimJoe]

There is no such thing as free. The question is are we going to force taxpayers to pay for the needs of non taxpayers including their:
education, preschool, grade school, high school, college, technical,
school lunches
mortgages people cant afford, interest and principal
transportation
the needs of all their children including octomom
their sexual needs, birth control, pregnancies,
rent
gas and electric
cell phone
internet lines for non profitable areas like rural areas
bank bailouts
company bailouts
uninsured flooded homes
uninsured tornado damaged homes; I dont need insurance anymore.
mental health care
family counseling
AND medical care
A LOT more that I invite all of you to add.
I have a right to free medical care and everything else I want and I will vote for any politician who promises to confiscate someone else's money to pay for my needs and desires.
You cant take the politics out of FREE medical.
NOTHING IS FREE.
p.s. Not only do I want free, I want the BEST free.. so I am going to Ted Kennedys doctors. I DESERVE the BEST FREE.
Why the heck am I still working???? I should quit my job right now and move to the villages and live there FREE forever!!
Who will do the work?
I dont know and I dont care if it is FREE for ME.
I have to go now. I have to get to work.

[LELANDJANE]

A few years ago, while visiting London, I fell on the cobblestone walks in Nottinghill. My friends found a helpful person in a store who called a cab and got me to a "neighborhood emergency." I signed in with my name only. Someone came out and asked the details of the accident. My front teeth had bitten through my chin and my elbow was hurt. In about 10 minutes I was called to an exam room. A nurse (I assume) looked at my mouth and used "super glue" (or whatever) to glue the injury inside my mouth back together and stop the bleeding. Today I have a large lump inside my mouth that continues to cause me problems. Then I was x-rayed and told that my elbow was broken. It was put into a sling and told that I could have it set when I got home (to the US) or be put on a list for surgery in a London hospital! Fortunately, I was able to fly home the next day. I agree with whoever said that the system works great as long as you're not sick or injured.

[mom2five]

I am also a Canadian seasonal resident. I have never known life without universal health care and I am glad of it. I raised five children and never once hesitated in taking them to a doctor if they were sick or injured. I feel secure in knowing that whatever happens to me or my children we will be well taken care of by the health care that we have in Canada.

That is not to say that Health care in Canada does not have its problems. There is a shortage of family doctors mostly because some of them are tempted by the money that can be made by relocating to the USA. Also there are longer wait times to see specialists or have optional surgeries.

I agree that nothing is free and certainly Canadians pay for health care with higher taxes.

I have been blessed with good health but have witnessed several health emergencies with relatives in the last few years and I remain confident in the Canadian Health Care System.

I bet you that those Canadians who are complaining would not want to change places with those who do not have Universal Health Care.

[Hancle704]

This from today's N.Y. Times Headlines online edition serves to further illustrate a problem with healthcare delivery in US. Maybe having better scans would lead to fewer surgeries. Is this what happens elsewhere too? I wonder.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/he..._r=1&th&emc=th

[Hancle704]

31
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,
32
and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33
He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34
Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36
naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
37
Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38
When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39
When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
40
And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42
For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43
a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
44
Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'
45
He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
46
And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

[Ohiogirl]

I had tenants last fall who had to leave early to go back to Canada for emergency surgery. Is that the only option? What happens if you have a heart attack or something while you're in the States?

I have to say I wholeheartedly support some type of national healthcare here in the US of A, just don't know exactly what.

[Hancle704]

In the movie Sicko, Michael Moore spoke to Canadians (family members) who were traveling to US. They purchased insurance policies at Sears to cover them while in the US. No mention of cost or exactly what coverage was provided.

[mom2five]

I am Canadian and if I required any kind of medical care while travelling in the States I would have to pay for it but would be reimbusrsed ,at the rate paid by the Ontario Hospital Insurance Plan (OHIP). I would have to pay the balance. To prevent this problem from occuring I can purchase Travel Insurance which would pick up the whole cost and then be reimbursed by the portion covered by OHIP.

If there is a medical emergency the Insurance company tries to get you back to Canada ASAP since once you are home OHIP covers all care needed.

The doctor in the States makes the decision if you can be transported without risk to your condition.

If you can not be moved then all your costs are paid by the Insurance company.

[serenityseeker]

Lots of good firsthand inormation here. Thanks and keep it coming, want to hear from all of you with experiences within the system....it is so much more valuable than heresay and second hand info. Thanx for you efforts.

[Cassie325]

Originally Posted by mom2five

I am also a Canadian seasonal resident. I have never known life without universal health care and I am glad of it. I raised five children and never once hesitated in taking them to a doctor if they were sick or injured. I feel secure in knowing that whatever happens to me or my children we will be well taken care of by the health care that we have in Canada.

That is not to say that Health care in Canada does not have its problems. There is a shortage of family doctors mostly because some of them are tempted by the money that can be made by relocating to the USA. Also there are longer wait times to see specialists or have optional surgeries.

I agree that nothing is free and certainly Canadians pay for health care with higher taxes.

I have been blessed with good health but have witnessed several health emergencies with relatives in the last few years and I remain confident in the Canadian Health Care System.

I bet you that those Canadians who are complaining would not want to change places with those who do not have Universal Health Care.

Thank you for sharing these comments. I would love to have a Universal HC here. We must have insurance for our children. They pick up so many germs and illnesses from being in school.

I am not yet insured in my position as there is a significant waiting period. Cobra is SO expensive that I had to make a decision on who gets the insurance. I pay privately for my daughter, but can not afford any additional for myself. I have to just keep my fingers crossed and be very careful. The stress that health insurance coverage brings to a family is at times unbearable.

I know there are many early retirees that are in similar circumstances. They have to private pay for health insurance or go back to work just for health care coverage.

I also know there are government programs available to those that can't afford health care. Well what about those of us who just make "too much"....even if it is by $1 a month....it does not matter.

There must be an answer.

[superuke]

I have lived in Canada for many years and also have lived in the USA. Somehow Canadians feel their medical system is free. Listen 45-50% of the Canadian Tax dollars go towards medical care. As a Canadian resident one third of my income goes towards taxes. Not including the extra taxes I pay for anything I buy.

Having worked for a national van line for several years, I would have to use a calculator to mention the number of doctors I have personaly moved from Canada to the USA. They are top of the line doc's that are involved in surgery and or specialists. Number one they have a difficlut time getting hospital rights for surgery because they have to use the hospital and hospital only. Personaly I required a special injection which had to be done in the hospital. I waited for 3 hours, the doc waited for 3 hours, just because the linen was not ready in the surgery room. I asked the doc how do you make any money. He said 3 hours is nothing my friend, I can make more money selling shoes.

One of our fine provinces Saskatchewan, has free medicine. I have several relatives and friends in this province. Their cupboards of full of medicine, they look like pharmacy. When asked what are they for, the answer was well they are free.

I have personally experienced being in an accident in which case my nerves where severerly damaged in the hip area from the injury. Yes everything was free. Cost me nothing, but I was bounced around from doctor to doctor, because most of the general practioners( doc's) like you coming back because it takes 2 minutes for them to give general information. But if you want a referral you will wait for 3 to 6 months like I did. Then the referral will give you another referral and you wait for another 3-6 months. But yes after 5 years in my case I was sent to a specialist that perhaps was very good, and yes they found the problem. I would have gladly paid $100,000 out of my own pocket to have had the problem solved 5 years earlier. The pain was unbearable. But yes after 5 years they found the problem.

We have very close friends and relatives that live in the USA, and yes they have to pay for premuims for insurance. Yes I too had to pay for premiums in the USA. But in the USA you have the best doctors, the best hospitals and the lastest technology in the world for proper modern up todate treatment. Not in 5 years but now.

Our tax rate in Canada is more than double the tax rate I paid for the same salary in the USA. So if my tax in Canada is $60,000 per year and 45 % goes to health care , my health care premuims in fact are $27,000 per year.

If you pay $20,000 personal tax in Canada and 45% goes towards towards health care you are actualy paying $9,000 in premuims. But some people think it is free. In fact most Canadians think it is free. Go figure! I would rather have paid the $2,000-$4,000 personal insurance premiums that I paid when living in the USA and get the best in Medicial.

I congratulate the Villages for having the most modern medical facilities. It just blows me away to see the rows and rows of medical buildings. All brand new, all with the lastest in medical equipment, and yes I don't mind paying for the premiums for insurance coverage in the USA. But I do know its the best medical available. And yes at the Villages for some very serious medical cases you are offer the new meds that available paid for by the insurance company. But if you asked the government to pay for the same, they will not do it. So do as some of friends of ours did, they died. But it was free.