[Jima64]

Refs handle the ball between every play and never noticed softer balls easier to grip? Will they be suspended too. How about the teams that pipe in fake fan noise too,loud and got caught. Or how long did the cleveland gm get suspended for cheating? Sports have such a big bucks businessmfunded by the networks so much that I don't even follw teams anymore. Coming from a lifelonh pats and niners fan.

[kbace6]

Originally Posted by Challenger

"allteams in every sport cheat" I give thanks every day for these great Role Models. Is this what we teach our children? Because it has always been so, should we continue to tolerate, and laugh it off? b

Professional athletes are NOT role models. If I ever caught anyone in my family teaching their children that a professional Athlete is a role model I'd take 'em our back and beat them with a wet sheleighlee.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by kbace6

Professional athletes are NOT role models. If I ever caught anyone in my family teaching their children that a professional Athlete is a role model I'd take 'em our back and beat them with a wet sheleighlee.

I agree that professional athletes shouldn't automatically be considered role models. But I would hesitate to paint with such a broad brush. There are a few here and there that might be worthy.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by John_W

Jim Harbaugh in the NFC West, I don't remember the 49ers really playing the Pats in any big playoff or super bowl game. Besides, he's now the coach of a college team, Michigan.

His brother John Harbaugh, head coach of the Ravens, he's the one you must be referring to. However, it looks like you have missed out on some of the facts. Even though I saw everyone of these games, I looked up the info to make sure I didn't have selective memory. I think you'll find it's a good rivarly and is pretty even, especially considering the Pats usually have home field advantage.

1) In 2009 the Ravens beat the Pats in New England in a playoff game 33-14.

2) 2010 a regular season game, the Pats at home won 23-20 in a game that went to overtime.

3) 2011 playoff game, once again in New England, the final score Pats 23-20. It could of easily gone the other way when Ravens receiver Lee Evans dropped a sure touchdown in the endzone with only seconds left. Then with only time left for a field goal attempt, Billy Cundiff shanked a 32 yard field goal left that would of tied the score. Billy Cundiff now kicks for Cleveland.

4) 2012 regular season game played in Baltimore, the Ravens win 31-30. The Pats lead 30-21 in the 4th quarter. However in the 4th quarter Ravens receiver Torry Smith, whose brother had died just days earlier in a motorcycle accident, caught his second TD of the game and on the final play kicker Justin Tucker kicked a 27 yard field goal. Pats coach Bill Belichick charged onto the field to dispute the field goal and reached for a referee. He was fined $50,000 later that week.

5) 2013 playoff game against Pats, also played in New England, the Ravens win 28-13. It was the first time ever that Tom Brady lost a home game when leading at halftime. The Ravens would go on to beat the 49ers in Super Bowl XXXVII in a game played against his brother Jim Harbaugh. Maybe that's where you get the idea of a Harbaugh brother not beating the other coach. John Harbaugh had also beat his brother the year before on a Thanksgiving night game.

6) 2014 playoffs once again played in New England the Pat win 35-31. It was a game in which the Ravens had lead twice by 14 points. The Ravens with their final possession began marching down the field connecting on several short passes and with still a minute left in the game. Coordinator Gary Kubiak called for a deep pass into the endzone that was intercepted sealing the Pats victory. As the team prepares to go into the 2015 season, Torry Smith the intended receiver on the play and play caller Gary Kubiak are no longer with the Ravens.

The following week was the Pats playoff game against the Colts that involved the disputed footballs. The Pats would crush the Colts and go on to win the Super Bowl in a close game with the Seahawks.

After the 2014 playoff game between the Patriots and Ravens, John Harbaugh called Colts coach, Chuck Pagnano, who he is very friendly with, and told him to watch out for soft balls in their upcoming game against the Patriots.

I don't believe that Jim Harbaugh was involved in any way.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Bruiser1

So they got "creative" with the rules against a cupcake opponent. 45-7 thanks for showing up (lack of ) Luck.

There is no way (NO WAY!) the commissioner will discipline His Buddy the owner of the Patriots (beside that he would sue the NFL back to the stone age). And NO WAY Brady will miss a REGULAR SEASON GAME!

I WAS SHOCKED (SHOCKED!!!) THE REPORT CAME UP AFTER THE DRAFT!

It's not even that they were getting creative with the rules. They were simply trying to defend themselves against incompetent or careless referees.

The Jets game was played with illegal balls that were inflated by the refs. why aren't the referees being punished for that one.

The Patriots are between a rock and a hard place. If they come out with what really happened, they face the wrath of the referees for the entire season and who knows for how long after that.

[John_W]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

After the 2014 playoff game between the Patriots and Ravens, John Harbaugh called Colts coach, Chuck Pagnano, who he is very friendly with, and told him to watch out for soft balls in their upcoming game against the Patriots.

I don't believe that Jim Harbaugh was involved in any way.

My long post was a reply to another poster who apparently didn't know the difference between John and Jim Harbaugh and lacked a thorough knowledge of the Ravens and Patriots recent game history.

In reply to your response, much like the George Brett pine tar incident in 1983, the Yankees didn't complain about Brett's bat until after he hit a 2 run homer. Why say something before hand, he just gets a new bat. This way his 2 run homer doesn't count and he's called out on top of that.

Your correct Chuck Pagano and Harbaugh are good friends, Pagano was hired to the initial Ravens coaching staff of John Harbaugh when took over in 2008 after he replaced Brian Billick. Pagano was promoted to defensive coordinator in 2011. In 2012 after he had made great improvements in the Ravens D, he got the head coaching job at Indy. John Harbaugh like many coaches are happy when their assistants move on to higher jobs, even when competing against each other. Much the same as with Bill Belichick and his rehiring of Josh McDaniels after he had left to become a head coach of the Denver Broncos, they remained friends.

However, I haven't found anything about a tip off to the Colts, but as we know, friends do talk. I guess the Colts were going to use it as their Ace in the Hole, or their pine tar bat. It wasn't until after Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson intercepted a Brady pass, he noticed the ball felt soft. At halftime the refs checked the balls, and found all but one was under inflated. However, unlike the Yankees and George Brett, fixing the balls hurt them more than helped them.

The only info I can find on the tip off is this news report dated Jan 21, 2015.

Amid reports that a league investigation discovered 11 of 12 New England Patriots footballs were underinflated in their AFC championship game against the Indianapolis Colts, another report surfaced that Ravens believed the kicking balls were also underinflated in their matchup against the Patriots in the divisional round.

Underinflating footballs are against league rules; they can create a competitive advantage.

There was a difference between the two games, however.

Against the Colts, the underinflated balls were used only by the Patriots on offense. It is believed that deflating a ball makes it softer and easier to throw and catch. The home team is in charge of these balls, and the Colts complained about one during the game after linebacker D'Qwell Jackson intercepted quarterback Tom Brady.

Against the Ravens, the alleged underinflated balls were used by both the Patriots and Ravens’ kicking teams. The league is in charge of the kicking balls, and the Ravens did not make a complaint during the game.

Harbaugh was asked whether he or his players noticed underinflated balls.

“It’s really not something that is in the forefront of our mind, I can tell you,” Harbaugh said Wednesday. “I know the NFL is doing an investigation and they called some of our people about it. Our guys answered – as far as I know, I don’t know exactly what the conversations were – they answered honestly.”

Harbaugh said nobody on his team noticed anything with the Patriots’ offensive balls because they never had a chance to handle those. He said they did notice softer kicking balls, but at the time, they simply attributed it to cold weather.

“As far as the kicking balls, you know it was 20 degrees out, so the balls were softer, our guys told us during the game. I just chalked that up to the fact that it was cold,” Harbaugh said. “Both teams were kicking the same kicking ball. I didn’t really think anything of it during the game. Other than that, it’s not something that I really gave any thought to at all.”

Now that the league has discovered the 11 offensive underinflated balls from the AFC championship, does that make Harbaugh wonder if something more happened in past matchups?

“I’d really rather not [get into that],” Harbaugh said. “As far as the past, I don’t really want to get into all of that. I don’t have any comment on that.”

Kicker Justin Tucker also tweeted about the topic Wednesday afternoon:

"I haven't talked to a single person [with] NFL, NFL Security, or media about under-inflated footballs or anything of the sort. Just to be clear, anyone saying that I made any comments one way or the other regarding our experiences in [New England] is simply mistaken."


We can know this, that equipment managers are not going to take it upon themselves to mess with game equipment unless asked by the player involved, especially when it involves a future hall of fame QB. I and anyone else who thinks logically can assume that Tom Brady requested to have the balls used by his offense deflated to a lesser pressure, obviously something he preferred. Having narrowly escaping a playoff loss at home to the Ravens, Brady certainly wanted every advantage he could get against the high flying Colts who had just defeated Manning and the Broncos the week before in Denver. Fortunately for him, the Colts were not the match the Ravens were and he didn't need the added boost.

[ajbrown]

As a Patriots fan, I have been so disappointed by the story from the moment I heard it. I first heard the story as I was shaking off the cobwebs and glow from the great Performance they had in the game against the Colts. I lost a lot of respect for some analysts and retired QBs seeing the way they reacted with even less facts than we have today. It has taken away some of the fun (for me) of being super bowl champions. Being labeled a cheater stinks. Having to celebrate in the closet stinks.

I have not read the entire report, I have tried to read the most negative articles towards Brady and the Patriots as I assume they would provide the most d*mning evidence from the report.

I do not see such evidence. I cannot see how Wells gets to ‘more probably than not’ w.r.t. Brady. Based on what the report has, there is quite a leap based on nonexistent facts. The commissioner is in a very difficult spot. Do you suspend someone because you think they might have done something? Do you do nothing and p*ss off a large audience who wants someones head to roll?

Do I believe Brady was very clear he does not like a ball inflated too much? Of course.

Do I believe he knew that 12.5 PSI was the low limit and told the staff to get it to 11 after the refs left? I do not, I sure hope not.

Are my opinions because I am a lifelong NE Patriots fan? I think not, but how can I be sure. I believe that I would have the same response no matter the QB, but who knows… read the same report and put in your team's names and QB. Does it still read as a 'd*mning' report?

PS. John_W: No matter the record of the Ravens they scare the heck out of me in the payoffs. They seem to match up very well against the Pats.

[tomjbud]

The sport of football is rotten to the core - I just wish I didn't like it so much.

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by ajbrown

As a Patriots fan, I have been so disappointed by the story from the moment I heard it. I first heard the story as I was shaking off the cobwebs and glow from the great Performance they had in the game against the Colts. I lost a lot of respect for some analysts and retired QBs seeing the way they reacted with even less facts than we have today. It has taken away some of the fun (for me) of being super bowl champions. Being labeled a cheater stinks. Having to celebrate in the closet stinks.

I have not read the entire report, I have tried to read the most negative articles towards Brady and the Patriots as I assume they would provide the most d*mning evidence from the report.

I do not see such evidence. I cannot see how Wells gets to ‘more probably than not’ w.r.t. Brady. Based on what the report has, there is quite a leap based on nonexistent facts. The commissioner is in a very difficult spot. Do you suspend someone because you think they might have done something? Do you do nothing and p*ss off a large audience who wants someones head to roll?

Do I believe Brady was very clear he does not like a ball inflated too much? Of course.

Do I believe he knew that 12.5 PSI was the low limit and told the staff to get it to 11 after the refs left? I do not, I sure hope not.

Are my opinions because I am a lifelong NE Patriots fan? I think not, but how can I be sure. I believe that I would have the same response no matter the QB, but who knows… read the same report and put in your team's names and QB. Does it still read as a 'd*mning' report?

PS. John_W: No matter the record of the Ravens they scare the heck out of me in the payoffs. They seem to match up very well against the Pats.

I only read part of the report because when I read the text messages between the patriots equipment assistants. It had no content of damning evidence. It was like reading notes passed between two giggling high school boys with many " how does Tom like his balls" cracks. I expected to read something concrete. I'm just amazed people think this is world ending evidence. To me it only proved the NFL can't even trust their referees to do their jobs. I agree a Patriots / Ravens game is always prove to be a good match up.

[2BNTV]

Roger Goodell, (NFL commissioner), always talks about "protecting the integrity of the shield". This speaks more of the culture of the Belechik, (Belicheat), regime in N.E. more than anything else.

Between Spygate and Deflategate, their legacy is tarnished. IMHO

Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB to play the game of terms of Super Bowls wins. Having these controversies only diminishes what has been accomplished.

Would they have won as many games as they did? I'll leave that to the so called experts.

There was no need to cheat as they are both great at what they do and arguably are the best combo in all of sports. Like baseball players who used PED's to get the extra advantage.

Again, this speaks more of the culture and the desire to win at all costs. It's ok to be a fierce competitor and to try everything to get youself ready, when you are to play your opponents, but this crosses the line. IMHO

I'd say a four game suspension for Tom Brady as Roger Goodell should get this one right and not bungle this issue, as he did with Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson.

[jebartle]

Two pounds psi is equivalent to a "two step FART"....give me a break...Let's get on to REAL problems in this world!

[janmcn]

If this were any team other than the Patriots, it would be a big yawn, page eight news, but because they are the best and the brightest they must be cheating. Can you imagine if the Tampa Bay Bucs were accused of deflating their footballs? Their fans would fall on their faces laughing.

When the NFL starts punishing teams based on innuendo, and no hard proof like they had in the Ray Rice case, they are starting down a slippery slope.

If the air pressure in a football is an issue, the NFL needs to look at their own rules and how they are enforced. Referees need to have a uniform way of checking the pressure and lock up the balls after they are checked to avoid any potential tampering.

[ajbrown]

Originally Posted by 2BNTV

Roger Goodell, (NFL commissioner), always talks about "protecting the integrity of the shield". This speaks more of the culture of the Belechik, (Belicheat), regime in N.E. more than anything else.

Between Spygate and Deflategate, their legacy is tarnished. IMHO

Stuff snipped for brevity by Alan

I'd say a four game suspension for Tom Brady as Roger Goodell should get this one right and not bungle this issue, as he did with Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson.

Wow you pulled out all the right buzz words; Belicheat, Spygate and Deflategate . After that extremely biased intro, I still do not get how you can read articles on that report and pin anything on Brady, but anyway, maybe I am just a 'homer'.

No offense intended in any remarks I make, I just cannot see the common sense, unless there is another agenda... (Spygate and Belicheat as good examples to open the discussion ?). This is not aimed just at you, some of the highest paid sports writers start their articles the same way. Based on their writing I DOUBT they even know the details of spygate

I know I cannot change anyone's mind, so I will not try anymore. I needed to say something for myself, as I am tired of it all.

[NorskiCroat]

Tom Brady saying he did not know he was throwing deflated footballs is like a PGA pro saying he thought it was a Pro V1 not a Top Flite he used during his last round of golf.

[kbace6]

Originally Posted by NorskiCroat

Tom Brady saying he did not know he was throwing deflated footballs is like a PGA pro saying he thought it was a Pro V1 not a Top Flite he used during his last round of golf.

Just to be clear. Tom Brady never uttered those words. You really shouldn't make stuff up..... Oh wait! This is TOTV, making stuff up as fact is in the user agreement.

My bad.