[Carl in Tampa]

Discussions on TOTV about home protection options have been vigorous and interesting. A couple of posters have made observations that some posters appear eager to have an armed confrontation with a burglar. The following gives some insight into personality types and how it affects their attitude toward confrontation.

This post contains excerpts from a much longer, excellent essay from a book. A link to the book appears at the end.

Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs

Excerpts from an essay
by
Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: �Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.� This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

(On a per capita basis) violence is remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin�s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

�Then there are the wolves,� the old war veteran said, �and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.� Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

�Then there are sheepdogs,� he went on, �and I�m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.� Or, as a sign in one California law enforcement agency put it, �We intimidate those who intimidate others.�

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath--a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero�s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed. *

----------------------------


This is a quite long article and I have skipped the section on the positive aspects of aggression, but this paragraph is insightful:

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

---------------------------

And, this about the Sheepdog:

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones. Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day.

---------------------------------

And, one last paragraph addressed to the Sheepdog:

If you are a warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be �on� 24/7 for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... �Baa.�



The entire, lengthy article can be found at:

On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs

[CFrance]

Thank you for editing that and putting it together, Carl. I will never be anything but a sheep, but you have given some explanations that answer a log of the contradictory feelings I have about different people's tendency toward or response to violence.

[borjo]

Wow, Carl! Wonderful insight by the Lt. Col. Thanks for sharing this.

[redwitch]

Definitely a sheep dog here. What bothers me, though, is the willingness some here have to at least say they will pull out their gun and use it for any offense. Sorry, you want to rob my house, be my guest. Not gonna stop you nor confront you. However, if I happen to walk in and see you there and you don't spot me, I will be calling the police to come get you. If you so much as threaten a hair on my cat's head or mine or another human's while robbing me, be prepared to get shot and I have no intention of wounding you.

[Taltarzac725]

Believe it depends on the circumstances in my case. I remember a very compromising situation late one night when a "friend" asked me what I would do if I were raped. I said I would stick a sharp instrument through an eye socket. This was when I was a tenant of a man in a very bad part of Minneapolis while he was just in his underwear and I had no access to a car. I am straight but his being bi-sexual was quite a surprise.

I had also been the victim of an attempted car jacking around 1984 near a rest stop on US Highway 50 near Sacramento Pass in Nevada. I pulled in late at night half asleep and a man in a suit, no less, grabbed my car door and threatened to slam it on my legs. I told him no and quickly moved my legs. If he had not moved very quickly, he would have had his feet run over or worse if he had tried to block my egress.

[buggyone]

Ah yes, the Sheepdogs are going to be protecting all of us stupid sheep. I found this article one piece of ridiculousness.

The ones who have their concealed carry permits are remiss in their civic duties if they do not carry a pistol everytime they venture into the streets of The Villages is going too far overboard.

I will concede that law enforcement officers need to be armed. Not retired law enforcement officers, but ones on active duty and even off duty.

The Villages is one of the safest places you can live. Naturally, I will see the comeback that the bad guys know so many Villagers pack heat and therefore are scared to come here. More ridiculousness!

If the murder rate mentioned by the author is 6 per 100,000, The Villages should be having at least 6 murders per year. How many years has it been since a murder took place?

We thank you for your duty as a law enforcement officer but you have now retired. Leave it to the active duty law enforcement officers and play golf and relax in this wonderful community.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Ah yes, the Sheepdogs are going to be protecting all of us stupid sheep. I found this article one piece of ridiculousness.

The ones who have their concealed carry permits are remiss in their civic duties if they do not carry a pistol everytime they venture into the streets of The Villages is going too far overboard.

I will concede that law enforcement officers need to be armed. Not retired law enforcement officers, but ones on active duty and even off duty.

The Villages is one of the safest places you can live. Naturally, I will see the comeback that the bad guys know so many Villagers pack heat and therefore are scared to come here. More ridiculousness!

If the murder rate mentioned by the author is 6 per 100,000, The Villages should be having at least 6 murders per year. How many years has it been since a murder took place?

We thank you for your duty as a law enforcement officer but you have now retired. Leave it to the active duty law enforcement officers and play golf and relax in this wonderful community.

Oh, thanks, now I'm back to the contradictory feelings again!

[buggyone]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Oh, thanks, now I'm back to the contradictory feelings again!

You can find articles like the one posted in every gun magazine out there or a book written by former law enforcement officers. We could expect nothing else.

It is their culture to do so. They have worked hard for their 20 or 30 years in law enforcement and are getting handsome retirement benefits for that work. Nothing wrong with that.

However, to say they are the protectors of everyone who does not carry a gun whenever they go outside is somewhat beyond the beyonds.

Mrs. Buggy and I really enjoyed meeting and chatting with you today. Remember what she told you! Enjoy the juices.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Ah yes, the Sheepdogs are going to be protecting all of us stupid sheep. I found this article one piece of ridiculousness.

The ones who have their concealed carry permits are remiss in their civic duties if they do not carry a pistol everytime they venture into the streets of The Villages is going too far overboard.

I will concede that law enforcement officers need to be armed. Not retired law enforcement officers, but ones on active duty and even off duty.

The Villages is one of the safest places you can live. Naturally, I will see the comeback that the bad guys know so many Villagers pack heat and therefore are scared to come here. More ridiculousness!

If the murder rate mentioned by the author is 6 per 100,000, The Villages should be having at least 6 murders per year. How many years has it been since a murder took place?

We thank you for your duty as a law enforcement officer but you have now retired. Leave it to the active duty law enforcement officers and play golf and relax in this wonderful community.

I doubt if the retired police officers carry firearms while they are just going out in the Villages unless they have some valid reason to do this. There is that odd one that carries when he or she probably should have left it at home like with the Tampa police officer. But, then if one of the people had been carrying at the Aurora movie theater? The Aurora and the Wesley Chapel community members probably thought that something like that could never happen in their community either.

I see some retired police officers quite often at some of the places I frequent in the Villages and they never appear to be carrying any kinds of weapons. I would think that a perceptive person would be able to tell when someone else has a gun on their person.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I see some retired police officers quite often at some of the places I frequent in the Villages and they never appear to be carrying any kinds of weapons. I would think that a perceptive person would be able to tell when someone else has a gun on their person.

Really? And how exactly does a perceptive person such as yourself tell if a person is carrying a concealed weapon. I mean if you could tell it wouldn't be concealed would it?

I have found that several people that I know carry a gun all the time and in every instance except one, (he was a secret service agent) I was surprised.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by buggyone

You can find articles like the one posted in every gun magazine out there or a book written by former law enforcement officers. We could expect nothing else.

It is their culture to do so. They have worked hard for their 20 or 30 years in law enforcement and are getting handsome retirement benefits for that work. Nothing wrong with that.

However, to say they are the protectors of everyone who does not carry a gun whenever they go outside is somewhat beyond the beyonds.

Mrs. Buggy and I really enjoyed meeting and chatting with you today. Remember what she told you! Enjoy the juices.

Buggyone, you didn't do well in interpreting the article, and I doubt that you read the longer article from which it was taken.

The article is an analogy of personality types. I won't repeat them here but since you missed the point, you might consider reading it again. Incidentally, the sheep are not characterized as "stupid" in the article.

------------------

Your aversion to firearms in the hands of the people has been quite obvious on TOTV, so your negative reaction to the article could be anticipated, but I wasn't aware it extended to retired law enforcement officers.

You may think that retired law enforcement officers should not carry firearms, but the Congress of the United States, and the last two Presidents do not agree with you. Congress passed The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 and President Bush signed it into law. Congress later amended the act and President Obama signed the amendment.

The LEOSA authorizes active duty police officers and qualified retirees to carry a concealed firearm throughout the entire United States without a concealed weapons license. This is the case, "nothwithstanding any state or local law to the contrary." There are, of course some exceptions, such as state office buildings and private property that is properly posted, but even New York's notorious Sullivan Law is triumphed by the LEOSA.

Your last paragraph appears to be directed toward me, and I find it condescending and insulting. My personality did not change upon retirement. I was, and am, a Sheepdog.

.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Really? And how exactly does a perceptive person such as yourself tell if a person is carrying a concealed weapon. I mean if you could tell it wouldn't be concealed would it?

I have found that several people that I know carry a gun all the time and in every instance except one, (he was a secret service agent) I was surprised.

We are talking about life in the Villages. It is kind of hard to conceal a gun when you are in shorts and a T-shirt, or in a bathing suit, or in tight fitting very warm weather clothes. I suppose if this were a colder climate it would be harder or if men usually carried backpacks and purses.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/0...ncealed-carry/

Where do your friends (in the Villages!) conceal their weapons? I also would be curious why they think they need one? I can understand victims of long term domestic violence, stalkers, or ex-cops who might have criminals with grudges against them; people who carry large sums of money; bodyguards; and some others. Basically any one who had a profession where they would have created enemies of the lethal kind.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Really? And how exactly does a perceptive person such as yourself tell if a person is carrying a concealed weapon. I mean if you could tell it wouldn't be concealed would it?

I have found that several people that I know carry a gun all the time and in every instance except one, (he was a secret service agent) I was surprised.

I haven't had conversations about concealed carry with all of the Secret Service retirees in The Villages, (there are few of us here) but I know of one who told me he doesn't carry here, but does carry if he is going "outside."

I'll send you a PM to see if the retiree you know is one I socialize with.

Incidentally, we have one retired agent who just turned 90 a few weeks ago. At his birthday party his children gave him a new driver. He plays golf three days a week.

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

I was, and am, a Sheepdog.

.

Thanks for the post Carl, WOOF!
I became a sheepdog because of what I learned about people when I was a provider of mental health services with:

• sexually abused children
• sexual abuse perpetrators
• the criminally insane
• juvenile offenders
• youthful offenders

For those who think you can tell who is carrying, ladies may carry in a purse, and I've known men who carried in an oversized front pocket of shorts.

[manaboutown]

Study after study shows that where folks are not allowed to carry or own handguns to protect themselves murder rates are higher, usually much higher. In gun control areas the illegally armed criminal wolves can attack defenseless law abiding sheep at whim and will. Harvard Study: No Correlation Between Gun Control and Less Violent Crime