[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately. I have participated in some of them, and usually come away with a bad taste in my mouth, both for my participation, and for others. I find that these threads usually cause people to become defensive and confrontational, and virtually everyone responds predictably according to their political persuasion and almost no one opens their mind to larger questions real introspection, not that I am surprised by that. I used to participate sporadically in the opt-in political forum, and found it more entertaining than informative, but at least most everyone was interested in the word jousting that regularly took place. When these issues get on the general board it seems that the tone quickly turns rather ugly with a bit of ganging up and even bullying occasionally resulting. On the poli forum I could tolerate it, and even enjoy it, but on the general forum it seems to be something else to me. I find myself losing respect for people that I otherwise respect and enjoy hearing from. For that reason I have decided to try my best to avoid those topics that might be interesting, but will inevitably devolve into animosity. That is not what I come to this site for, or what I joined for in the first place. To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. Please don't take this as a criticism of anyone, it is just an observation of what I see, and how I can best be a good citizen of the site. I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

Well written and very articulate Coach! As for discussing politics, there is an old, old saying "empty vessels make the most noise" and we are never, ever, going to change anyone's opinion on politics or religion.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by l2ridehd

It's great to be able to discuss world events that have the potential to impact our lives going forward. What happened on the political forum was it would deteriorate into name calling. People were not able to discuss political issues without using the politicians one liner jabs at those they do not agree with.

For some reason I cannot understand most people seem to believe that the absolute worst devil who lies cheats and steals but belongs to their party is better than the absolute most honest high integrity respected person from the other party.

Believe me that there are crooks, saints, devils, smart people and all other walks of life that belong to both political parties. And if your reading this thinking "yes, but there is more of them bad ones in the other party" then your part of the problem. Both have lots and lots of each type. I always try to look at what a candidate stands for, their positions on current issues and how I think they will represent me when I vote. Yes my support falls to those I agree with which happen to belong to one party more than the other, but during my long life I have voted for candidates from both parties many many times.

As usual. I agree with your every word.

I have voted for both parties. I am conservative in a lot of things, but moderate to liberal in others. Pay your bills, don't spend money on foolishness. I am a fiscal conservative for sure. Take care of yourself and your family. That is your job. If you really can't than I want to help you. I am not a Tea Party Conservative, but I rankle when they are criticized. I see them as mostly good people who are more traditional than I am on certain things. I HATE when someone criticizes someone's religion for no good reason. Most American Christians sects harm no one. Most Jewish sects harm no one. I stand for the separation of Church and State but I hate when someone says they are going to introduce a book on devil worship in the public schools. That is mean hearted. Hatred breeds hatred. I see your point, but you make no points with me with that kind of tactic. I am old fashioned but I am for stem cell research. I could not have an abortion but do not want Roe vs Wade rescinded. I used to think differently, but now I entertain all views...unless you are cussed mean and hateful. I respect people who believe in God and I do, most of the time. I love the tradition of the religion I was born with but I don't attend Mass. Well sometimes.

Merry Christmas.

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by l2ridehd

It's great to be able to discuss world events that have the potential to impact our lives going forward. What happened on the political forum was it would deteriorate into name calling. People were not able to discuss political issues without using the politicians one liner jabs at those they do not agree with.

For some reason I cannot understand most people seem to believe that the absolute worst devil who lies cheats and steals but belongs to their party is better than the absolute most honest high integrity respected person from the other party.

Believe me that there are crooks, saints, devils, smart people and all other walks of life that belong to both political parties. And if your reading this thinking "yes, but there is more of them bad ones in the other party" then your part of the problem. Both have lots and lots of each type. I always try to look at what a candidate stands for, their positions on current issues and how I think they will represent me when I vote. Yes my support falls to those I agree with which happen to belong to one party more than the other, but during my long life I have voted for candidates from both parties many many times.

I wish I'd written this post too.................

[Rags123]

I have seen folks have their religious beliefs actually mocked on here and nobody cares.

I have seen nastier posts on threads to discuss DOGS, or POOLS.

So, the talk about nasty posting, to me, falls on deaf ears.

The political forum is gone because a small group of people decided it was real smart to get together and support each other in reporting and making snide remarks. Mind you, they USED the forum for their entertainment.

The political forum at its beginning was just wonderful. I personally learned so very much from posters on there. One, in particular, who had different political philosophies than I, but an expertise in economics. Over time during the 2008-2009 period when our country was in economic distress and I had my own ideas, just reading his posts changed my mind and taught me a lot. Fact is, his posts made me a loyal reader of Economist magazine.

Then the shift in population.(Population of the political forum) Those who were interested in WINNING, not learning and discussing. Too much for TOTV and I understood and understand why they did away with it. Many of those are still posting and still to this day making snide remarks instead of giving opinions and supplying some backup for that feeling which is what exchange of ideas is all about.

I am also really shocked at this thread. Will there soon be threads about KITCHEN AID MIXERS, or OOMA VS MAGICJACK and varying opinions on there. As I said, some of the nastiest posts I have ever seen on here were about pools and dogs as two examples.

It alludes me how someone can be upset about threads concerning things they DO NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT. That is so easy to fix....do not read it.

Some have all the answers....they preach on what we should talk about. Some want to learn from others....I count myself among those. I am already feeling bad about criticizing the dog posts and pool posts. Not so much the religious comments...imagine actually making fun of someones personal religious beliefs and their bible, yet nobody began a thread about that.

I would never hint at telling anyone else what to talk about yet, it seems some think certain subject matter (not including mocking religious beliefs or being nasty about pools or dogs) should not be discussed.

I grew up and have always been around people with strong opinions. They could offer good arguments for how they felt. They stimulated my thinking and changed many of my opinions. And yes, many with snide comments, BUT NEVER WITH ONLY SNIDE COMMENTS.

Just disappointed that some on here want to make decisions for us all on things that do not even affect them, ie. If you do not want to read it skip it as I do on dogs and pools.

My apologies to all those who post on dogs and pools...just borrowed that for an example

[Bavarian]

I do not know why peoples First Amendment's Right to Free Speech restricted. Everyone has Freedom of Speech, but they don't have to be listened to.

[Average Guy]

Originally Posted by Bavarian

I do not know why peoples First Amendment's Right to Free Speech restricted. Everyone has Freedom of Speech, but they don't have to be listened to.

Then moderators of this forum also have the right to determine what to allow and not allow. We are just users of their forum. If you do not agree with their rules, you can always stop being a user.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

That is my view exactly, if I were able to phrase it just like that I would.

I didn't like the political forum, but since it was shut down, I have turned a corner. I now am very interested in world events and of course have my views. I am entitled to my views. I am a senior citizen. I have learned a great deal about how differently others see the world and it has caused me to think a lot.

In for a penny, in for a pound. It doesn't take long for people to figure out where you stand. It does eliminate close relationships with people who loathe your views, but it does open up new friendships too.

I want to talk and discuss and get upset over what is happening in the world today with people whose views I respect, and some whose views I do not agree with.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't feed you, hug you, listen to you and drive you to the doctor and care what happens to you. Meanwhile you have the opportunity to think how such a nice person can be so narrow minded.

Ain't a whole lot of years left. I am finally interested in world affairs and want to talk about them and lecture and yell and steam and .........well you know.

Yea

[Cedwards38]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately. I have participated in some of them, and usually come away with a bad taste in my mouth, both for my participation, and for others. I find that these threads usually cause people to become defensive and confrontational, and virtually everyone responds predictably according to their political persuasion and almost no one opens their mind to larger questions real introspection, not that I am surprised by that. I used to participate sporadically in the opt-in political forum, and found it more entertaining than informative, but at least most everyone was interested in the word jousting that regularly took place. When these issues get on the general board it seems that the tone quickly turns rather ugly with a bit of ganging up and even bullying occasionally resulting. On the poli forum I could tolerate it, and even enjoy it, but on the general forum it seems to be something else to me. I find myself losing respect for people that I otherwise respect and enjoy hearing from. For that reason I have decided to try my best to avoid those topics that might be interesting, but will inevitably devolve into animosity. That is not what I come to this site for, or what I joined for in the first place. To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. Please don't take this as a criticism of anyone, it is just an observation of what I see, and how I can best be a good citizen of the site. I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

I fear that TOTV is a microcosm of our society. True political discourse, for the purpose of having a better understanding seems to have gone by the wayside in favor or the constant competition of winning the next election. In Congress, and in our society, the sport of politics has overshadowed the desire to understand each other and cooperate for the good of all. Everything the President does is cruelly criticized by the opposition party, and the dedicated wings of the national media. And before this President, the same was done by the other side. It's a sad day for representative government.

[scarecrow1]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

As usual. I agree with your every word.

I have voted for both parties. I am conservative in a lot of things, but moderate to liberal in others. Pay your bills, don't spend money on foolishness. I am a fiscal conservative for sure. Take care of yourself and your family. That is your job. If you really can't than I want to help you. I am not a Tea Party Conservative, but I rankle when they are criticized. I see them as mostly good people who are more traditional than I am on certain things. I HATE when someone criticizes someone's religion for no good reason. Most American Christians sects harm no one. Most Jewish sects harm no one. I stand for the separation of Church and State but I hate when someone says they are going to introduce a book on devil worship in the public schools. That is mean hearted. Hatred breeds hatred. I see your point, but you make no points with me with that kind of tactic. I am old fashioned but I am for stem cell research. I could not have an abortion but do not want Roe vs Wade rescinded. I used to think differently, but now I entertain all views...unless you are cussed mean and hateful. I respect people who believe in God and I do, most of the time. I love the tradition of the religion I was born with but I don't attend Mass. Well sometimes.

Merry Christmas.

I think we need more moderation in both parties and all religions. The world would be a much better place.

[billethkid]

as one of the two retiring congressmen were quoted this morning....I paraphrase here.....over the last 20 or more years congress has become more concerned about winning elections and re-elections than the job of representing the people.

As a side note....can you imagine ANYBODY still working a key executive position in ANY organization anywhere in the world for 59 years......at age 91!!!

Absolutely criminal and an excellent example of one of the major problems we have with our representatives.

No controvery here just FYI.....fuel for future discussion.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

I fear that TOTV is a microcosm of our society. True political discourse, for the purpose of having a better understanding seems to have gone by the wayside in favor or the constant competition of winning the next election. In Congress, and in our society, the sport of politics has overshadowed the desire to understand each other and cooperate for the good of all. Everything the President does is cruelly criticized by the opposition party, and the dedicated wings of the national media. And before this President, the same was done by the other side. It's a sad day for representative government.

I agree with this. It is my opinion that a lot of the Animosity for the other side (whichever side that may be) is constantly stirred and simmered by adversarial media. Fox News, MSNBC, and the numerous wing nut talking heads get people stirred up, often with slanted or downright disingenuous "news". Say what you will about the network news and traditional print media, they usually try, tried, to report the facts and let the consumer make up their minds (aside from columnists and editorials, which were usually clear in their slant). I find that a lot of folks I know (not necessarily you) choose to pay attention to only the slanted viewpoints that support their position, and thus are never exposed to differing opinions, or even facts that might cause them to rethink their position. Thus they are continually reaffirmed of the "rightness" of their side, and the wrongheaded stupidity of anyone who would dare to differ. One thread I commented on a while back was an assertion by a poster that their side (party) was guided completely by logic while the other side was guided completely by emotion. You can't hope to reach a reasonable basis for discussion of divisive issues holding a rigid point of view such as that. I lean left but am often in agreement with the right, and believe both sides are, for the most part, sincere and righteous in their convictions, but are often manipulated by media and politicians.

[njbchbum]

Where does true political discourse take place anymore? Have we not determined/decided, even among those with whom we share an aquaintance/friendship, that it is in the best interest of maintaining that aquaintance/friendship by NOT discussing religion and politics?

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by l2ridehd

It's great to be able to discuss world events that have the potential to impact our lives going forward. What happened on the political forum was it would deteriorate into name calling. People were not able to discuss political issues without using the politicians one liner jabs at those they do not agree with.

For some reason I cannot understand most people seem to believe that the absolute worst devil who lies cheats and steals but belongs to their party is better than the absolute most honest high integrity respected person from the other party.

Believe me that there are crooks, saints, devils, smart people and all other walks of life that belong to both political parties. And if your reading this thinking "yes, but there is more of them bad ones in the other party" then your part of the problem. Both have lots and lots of each type. I always try to look at what a candidate stands for, their positions on current issues and how I think they will represent me when I vote. Yes my support falls to those I agree with which happen to belong to one party more than the other, but during my long life I have voted for candidates from both parties many many times.

Hi12ridehd:

I agree with your post and especially the name calling portion. In fact in today's society people debating actually believe name calling is their argument.

Like many posters here I tire quickly of the vanilla flavor topics. I don't post nor do I believe anything said by me will change anyone's mind... but so many topics need a national conversation .

the riots are a clear example of our nation's inability to debate.

the political forum was stimulating and I believe it could have continued if the Admin just shut down the name callers

[2BNTV]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately. I have participated in some of them, and usually come away with a bad taste in my mouth, both for my participation, and for others. I find that these threads usually cause people to become defensive and confrontational, and virtually everyone responds predictably according to their political persuasion and almost no one opens their mind to larger questions real introspection, not that I am surprised by that. I used to participate sporadically in the opt-in political forum, and found it more entertaining than informative, but at least most everyone was interested in the word jousting that regularly took place. When these issues get on the general board it seems that the tone quickly turns rather ugly with a bit of ganging up and even bullying occasionally resulting. On the poli forum I could tolerate it, and even enjoy it, but on the general forum it seems to be something else to me. I find myself losing respect for people that I otherwise respect and enjoy hearing from. For that reason I have decided to try my best to avoid those topics that might be interesting, but will inevitably devolve into animosity. That is not what I come to this site for, or what I joined for in the first place. To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. Please don't take this as a criticism of anyone, it is just an observation of what I see, and how I can best be a good citizen of the site. I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

Hit the nail on the head!!!!

[Chi-Town]

Originally Posted by billethkid

as one of the two retiring congressmen were quoted this morning....I paraphrase here.....over the last 20 or more years congress has become more concerned about winning elections and re-elections than the job of representing the people.

As a side note....can you imagine ANYBODY still working a key executive position in ANY organization anywhere in the world for 59 years......at age 91!!!

Absolutely criminal and an excellent example of one of the major problems we have with our representatives.

No controvery here just FYI.....fuel for future discussion.

Congress has an 11% approval rating but 96% of the incumbents were reelected. I don't know who to be mad at, them or us.