[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken; ....Dr. Ornish is a self-promoting author who at best is considered to conduct non-scientific research and at worst to be a quack by many leading cardiologists.

Can you provide a link to some of those leading cardiologists?

His Lifestyle Heart Trial study was published in the Lancet and five year data was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

That's non-scientific? Before you try to ruin someone's reputation you should at least offer some proof of what you say.

[Villages PL]

Medicare Pays for the Ornish Diet-and-Yoga Heart Program | MORE Magazine

[Shimpy]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Medicare Pays for the Ornish Diet-and-Yoga Heart Program | MORE Magazine

I think Pritikin started it all. Ornish just carried it on. I've read both and am convinced, but don't follow it exactly.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Can you provide a link to some of those leading cardiologists?

His Lifestyle Heart Trial study was published in the Lancet and five year data was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

That's non-scientific? Before you try to ruin someone's reputation you should at least offer some proof of what you say.

Here's one link to a cardiologist who says Ornish is a scam artist.
http://www.wellsphere.com/weight-los...-a-scam/277092

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The biggest problem with guys like Ornish and Esselstyn is that they are unrealistic. Ornish has admitted that his diet is difficult to stay on. Most people are simply not willing to do what they ask even if they believe that it would work. Most people are just going to think that they are too extreme.

People don't believe that you have to be that extreme to live a long, healthy life.

How many people on this site would be willing to completely give up all meats, including chicken and fish and all dairy as well as all oil? No fish oil, no olive oil or coconut oil for cooking. You'd COMPLETELY give up ice cream, candy, eggs and as I said, meats. The on top of that try to keep the levels of your starchy vegetables and sugar down and make sure that you eat no processed foods.

Just as an example, how many of you on this forum would be willing to do that if they were guaranteed that they would lose weight and reverse they heart disease?

Please answer yes or no.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Shimpy

I think Pritikin started it all. Ornish just carried it on. I've read both and am convinced, but don't follow it exactly.

There was also a guy named Dr Robert Haas who billed himself as a sports nutritionist. He had some high profile clients like Martina Navratalova. Jack Nicklaus went on his program for a while and got off because he said that he was feeling weak and tired all the time.

I went for it big time when I was playing professional golf, but I gained a ton of weight. The problem was that Haas recommended whole grains as the major part of your diet. I was eating pasta all the time. And I felt like crap and my golf game didn't get any better.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

How many people on this site would be willing to completely give up all meats, including chicken and fish and all dairy as well as all oil? No fish oil, no olive oil or coconut oil for cooking. You'd COMPLETELY give up ice cream, candy, eggs and as I said, meats.

2- yes

5 years

[hulahips]

Ornish can be extreme however I take bits of his advice along with Dr Oz, Dr weil and a few others, combined with my experience and try to live a healthy lifestyle

[Carla B]

Several years ago I met and talked to someone at the Houston Yacht Club who said he was a heart patient and was told by his doctors that he must eat no meat, poultry, fish, or dairy products. Imagining his severely restricted diet, I felt so sorry for him. Now, I bet he was following the Ornish diet. Dr. Ornish used to practice in Houston and preached that heart disease could be reversed by diet.

[Villager Joyce]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

The biggest problem with guys like Ornish and Esselstyn is that they are unrealistic. Ornish has admitted that his diet is difficult to stay on. Most people are simply not willing to do what they ask even if they believe that it would work. Most people are just going to think that they are too extreme.

People don't believe that you have to be that extreme to live a long, healthy life.

How many people on this site would be willing to completely give up all meats, including chicken and fish and all dairy as well as all oil? No fish oil, no olive oil or coconut oil for cooking. You'd COMPLETELY give up ice cream, candy, eggs and as I said, meats. The on top of that try to keep the levels of your starchy vegetables and sugar down and make sure that you eat no processed foods.

Just as an example, how many of you on this forum would be willing to do that if they were guaranteed that they would lose weight and reverse they heart disease?

Please answer yes or no.

I have tried and been successful several months at a time not eating any meat, pork or chicken, but I did eat salmon. It was difficult because it was so completely different than the way I was raised or think. I didn't know how to relate to thanksgiving without turkey or New Years Eve without standing rib.

[justjim]

Give up ice cream---definitely no!!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Villager Joyce

I have tried and been successful several months at a time not eating any meat, pork or chicken, but I did eat salmon. It was difficult because it was so completely different than the way I was raised or think. I didn't know how to relate to thanksgiving without turkey or New Years Eve without standing rib.

No oil, milk, eggs, nuts? And you said that you did eat salmon. Are you still doing this?

Which brings up another point. a lot of people will try this and do it for a few months. Jimbo2012 is one of the very few that have been able to maintain it for a long period of time.

How many people will keep it as a lifestyle for the rest of their lives?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by hulahips

Ornish can be extreme however I take bits of his advice along with Dr Oz, Dr weil and a few others, combined with my experience and try to live a healthy lifestyle

That's exactly my point. According to radical extremists like Ornish and Esselstyn, you are not living a healthy lifestyle unless you go along 100% with their program. ZERO oil. ZERO meat. A little bit to them is the same as nothing.

Esselstyn admits to having a handful of Reece's Mini Peanut Butter Cups every New Years Eve. That's his big cheat. Once a year.

I honestly don't think that one percent of the people in this country or the rest of the developed world are willing to live like that.

[Villager Joyce]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

No oil, milk, eggs, nuts? And you said that you did eat salmon. Are you still doing this?

Which brings up another point. a lot of people will try this and do it for a few months. Jimbo2012 is one of the very few that have been able to maintain it for a long period of time.

How many people will keep it as a lifestyle for the rest of their lives?

I'm not still doing it because I couldn't wrap my head around how to do it and keep doing it. I still eat very little meat except once in awhile when I go on a rampage. Just out of curiosity, do you eat meat, nuts, milk, etc.? If not, what do you eat? Jimbo2012, how did you do it?

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Carla B

Several years ago I met and talked to someone at the Houston Yacht Club who said he was a heart patient and was told by his doctors that he must eat no meat, poultry, fish, or dairy products. Imagining his severely restricted diet, I felt so sorry for him. Now, I bet he was following the Ornish diet. Dr. Ornish used to practice in Houston and preached that heart disease could be reversed by diet.

Years ago, in the late '70s, we ran into a couple at a campground. The husband had been to Pritikin because of a heart condition and was on a very restricted diet. We visited them one evening in their mobile home. The equivalent of one whole room in that mobile home was filled with the required special grains , flour, a flour milling machine, bread machine and other associated stuff that he required to maintain that special diet. It's a good thing they were retired because they had to spend all day preparing meals.