Not exactly earth-shartering news but I thought this Editorial summed it up fairly well:

http://detnews.com/article/20090714/...is-not-working

Receipts are down 31% in 2nd quarter compared to 2nd quarter last year.
http://www.bizzyblog.com/2009/07/13/...y-have-led-to/

Perhaps we need to stimulate it.

Yoda

A member of the loyal opposition

Wow! The country encounters maybe the worst financial crisis in history. Then following a couple of months of debate among the politicos, we come up with a "stimulus" plan to try to re-start the economy. Now, only 5-6 months later, we're bitching because it isn't working.

Are you kidding? We'll be lucky to get the economy to turn into positive growth by the end of 2010, certainly not the end of 2009. It isn't really possible--in my opinion anyway--under this President with his plans, nor would it have been under any other President with a different set of plans.

All we're proving here is that Americans really do expect instantaneous gratification.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Wow! The country encounters maybe the worst financial crisis in history. Then following a couple of months of debate among the politicos, we come up with a "stimulus" plan to try to re-start the economy. Now, only 5-6 months later, we're bitching because it isn't working.

Are you kidding? We'll be lucky to get the economy to turn into positive growth by the end of 2010, certainly not the end of 2009. It isn't really possible--in my opinion anyway--under this President with his plans, nor would it have been under any other President with a different set of plans.

All we're proving here is that Americans really do expect instantaneous gratification.

It was his promises that got the bills passed. No unemployment over 8%, dirt shovel jobs before the summer etc, etc. Plus business has lost faith because of all the initiatives and changes he wants. You would think that things would at least stop bleeding.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Wow! The country encounters maybe the worst financial crisis in history. Then following a couple of months of debate among the politicos, we come up with a "stimulus" plan to try to re-start the economy. Now, only 5-6 months later, we're bitching because it isn't working.

Are you kidding? We'll be lucky to get the economy to turn into positive growth by the end of 2010, certainly not the end of 2009. It isn't really possible--in my opinion anyway--under this President with his plans, nor would it have been under any other President with a different set of plans.

All we're proving here is that Americans really do expect instantaneous gratification.

FDR Extended Depression for 7years

http://www.youtube.com/v/Jnqto6sDtGI..._embedded&fs=1

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Wow! The country encounters maybe the worst financial crisis in history. Then following a couple of months of debate among the politicos, we come up with a "stimulus" plan to try to re-start the economy. Now, only 5-6 months later, we're bitching because it isn't working.

Are you kidding? We'll be lucky to get the economy to turn into positive growth by the end of 2010, certainly not the end of 2009. It isn't really possible--in my opinion anyway--under this President with his plans, nor would it have been under any other President with a different set of plans.

All we're proving here is that Americans really do expect instantaneous gratification.

VK, I actually understand what you are saying. HOWEVER....what really irks me is how fast we forget two things ...

1. The bill was crammed through without any reading or discussion

2. The bill was, and not even debated by Democrats, about (maybe more) 45% unrelated to the economy and simply social spending !

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Wow! The country encounters maybe the worst financial crisis in history. Then following a couple of months of debate among the politicos, we come up with a "stimulus" plan to try to re-start the economy. Now, only 5-6 months later, we're bitching because it isn't working.

Are you kidding? We'll be lucky to get the economy to turn into positive growth by the end of 2010, certainly not the end of 2009. It isn't really possible--in my opinion anyway--under this President with his plans, nor would it have been under any other President with a different set of plans.

All we're proving here is that Americans really do expect instantaneous gratification.

My concerns about the stimulus are:


the haste and urgency it was pushed through and passed and the concurrent lack of follow-up on implementation,

the changing targets for the stimulus as if a per se stimulus plan never really was a plan but a make it up as you go pork barrel to reward political allies,

the lack of transparency and accountability and the surfacing utilization for unions and selective groups that appears to be emerging.

It appears to me that the administration is commingling stimulus funds and Federal budget funds and most people can't tell the difference. In any case, the outcome can't be good for the country but will help politicians, especially democrats, immensely.....at least until after the next election when those "addicted" to the dole out go through withdrawals when the well is dry and the Obama administration are writing their memoirs.

It would appear that the stimulus package is becoming the biggest Obama reelection war chest ever imagined.

Just random thoughts from a skeptic.

Not only did the stimulus not work, it made things worse. Look at history, government stimulus never works, never has worked and never will work. I still honestly believe that BO is purposely keeping the economy down for the express purpose of remaking America into a central government command and control center. The more they add folks to the government roll the more they will be dependent on the government to meet their daily needs. That translates into votes and power for them.

There's an easy way to turn this economy around and they know it. They just won't do it. Private sector creates jobs, not the government.

BO is getting exactly what he wants and that's to knock the USA down a peg or two... or three so he can transfer wealth and equalize what he has always believed to be an unfair society of the productive and unproductive.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

If they get cap-n-tax Americans will get hammered in energy costs. What will the poor do? Well, I'll tell you what the government will do. They'll offer yet more subsidies so the poor can pay their fuel bills. Which of course translates into more votes because then we'll have yet more people dependent on the government.

Same with health care.

It's unbelievable that more people don't get what's really going on. Why so many people are willing to kiss their freedoms good bye and turn their life over to government is a mystery to me.

...What dklassen said, in Spades!

There’s only one thing and one thing only that’s going to stimulate the economy and that’s companies hiring workers. Unlike some of you I still live my life in the corporate world every day as do most of my friends and I can assure you that even if the loss of jobs stabilize, they have no plans now or in the future to start haring again and we need hiring in a big way NOW.

We need jobs and we need people spending money again. BO has no intention of making that happen. In fact just the opposite is going to occur under his watch. Every single thing he is doing is killing jobs and the opportunity for jobs.

Companies are not going to hire while he is messing with the economy, private sector corporations, health care and sky rocketing our debt.

Some of you think I’m wrong? Just watch.

Originally Posted by dklassen

There’s only one thing and one thing only that’s going to stimulate the economy and that’s companies hiring workers. Unlike some of you I still live my life in the corporate world every day as do most of my friends and I can assure you that even if the loss of jobs stabilize, they have no plans now or in the future to start haring again and we need hiring in a big way NOW.

We need jobs and we need people spending money again. BO has no intention of making that happen. In fact just the opposite is going to occur under his watch. Every single thing he is doing is killing jobs and the opportunity for jobs.

Companies are not going to hire while he is messing with the economy, private sector corporations, health care and sky rocketing our debt.

Some of you think I’m wrong? Just watch.

Nope, your singing to the choir, here. Most businesses started to hunker down since last fall when it was obvious that McCain was too far down in the polls.

Business looks at things in back and white. No gray zones. Either you for free enterprise or against. Every bill that is coming to congress is anti- business. Government doesn't create jobs..mostly small business creates jobs.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Wow! The country encounters maybe the worst financial crisis in history. Then following a couple of months of debate among the politicos, we come up with a "stimulus" plan to try to re-start the economy. Now, only 5-6 months later, we're bitching because it isn't working.

Are you kidding? We'll be lucky to get the economy to turn into positive growth by the end of 2010, certainly not the end of 2009. It isn't really possible--in my opinion anyway--under this President with his plans, nor would it have been under any other President with a different set of plans.

All we're proving here is that Americans really do expect instantaneous gratification.

RIGHT ON.... IT TOOK EIGHT YEARS TO GET US HERE.. SO IT IS GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE TIME TO GET THIS MESS UNDER CONTROL AND MAKE SURE IT DOES NOT HAPPEN AGIAN...AND WHY IT IS TAKING SO LONG IS THEY ARE MAKING SURE THE PROJECTS ARE GOOD ONES AND NOT JUST A BUNCH OF FLUFF..NEW CONCEPT.

Originally Posted by dklassen

...
We need jobs and we need people spending money again...

You hit the nail on the head, DK. But I fail to see why "BO has no intention of making that happen" as you allege. What is the entire TARP and then stimulus program all about if it's not to increase employment, which will lead to positive economic growth?

The TARP program was intended to strengthen the banks who would then begin to lend to both individuals and companies, providing the leverage to promote economic growth as quickly as possible. The stimulus program was intended to employ people so they would have money to spend.

Unfortunately, neither program has fixed plummeting housing prices, employment in the construction industry and most important, consumer confidence. Most recent statistics indicate that Americans are using any excess cash they have to either pay down debt or save--neither of which will result in economic growth anytime soon.

The government economists and the administration are in uncharted waters in trying to re-start the economy. History will prove whether the programs they've decided upon were the best or not. But to suggest that the administration will purposely avoid steps to make that happen doesn't make sense. Of course the Obama adminstration wants it to happen, just as a McCain administration would have, had he been elected. The problem is, as I've said, the administration is trying to solve a worldwide economic problem that has lots of moving parts. The magnitude of the problem is greater than anyone has ever experienced and they're using economic tools that have never been used before. At the same time, the geo-political situation is far from settled, which adds to the problem.

Americans have every right to be concerned and even a bit impatient. But to suggest that our political leaders aren't trying and have some motive for recovery not happening is simply wrong.

I'll ask the question that I've asked on this forum many times...rather than simply criticizing what our leaders are doing, what would you do to fix the economy? Getting people working, earning moeny, and then spending it, is the only thing that will lead to economic recovery (measured by reduced unemployment and increased GDP). What would you do, DK, to make that happen?

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

You hit the nail on the head, DK. But I fail to see why "BO has no intention of making that happen" as you allege. What is the entire TARP and then stimulus program all about if it's not to increase employment, which will lead to positive economic growth?

The TARP program was intended to strengthen the banks who would then begin to lend to both individuals and companies, providing the leverage to promote economic growth as quickly as possible. The stimulus program was intended to employ people so they would have money to spend.

Unfortunately, neither program has fixed plummeting housing prices, employment in the construction industry and most important, consumer confidence. Most recent statistics indicate that Americans are using any excess cash they have to either pay down debt or save--neither of which will result in economic growth anytime soon.

The government economists and the administration are in uncharted waters in trying to re-start the economy. History will prove whether the programs they've decided upon were the best or not. But to suggest that the administration will purposely avoid steps to make that happen doesn't make sense. Of course the Obama adminstration wants it to happen, just as a McCain administration would have, had he been elected. The problem is, as I've said, the administration is trying to solve a worldwide economic problem that has lots of moving parts. The magnitude of the problem is greater than anyone has ever experienced and they're using economic tools that have never been used before. At the same time, the geo-political situation is far from settled, which adds to the problem.

Americans have every right to be concerned and even a bit impatient. But to suggest that our political leaders aren't trying and have some motive for recovery not happening is simply wrong.

I'll ask the question that I've asked on this forum many times...rather than simply criticizing what our leaders are doing, what would you do to fix the economy? Getting people working, earning moeny, and then spending it, is the only thing that will lead to economic recovery (measured by reduced unemployment and increased GDP). What would you do, DK, to make that happen?

That the first problem---he thinks he's the leader of the world or wants to be leader of the world.

Show me where in history that spending the country into massive debt helped the economy. Japan did it as recently as the 1990's and they call that their lost decade.

Motives??? Staying in power. Idealism...legacies...narcissistic ambitions...literally trying to turn the country into a socialist rat trap. Pick any one you want. Go back into history and do the opposite of his hero, FDR.