Originally Posted by GrayGoose

RIGHT ON.... IT TOOK EIGHT YEARS TO GET US HERE.. SO IT IS GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE TIME TO GET THIS MESS UNDER CONTROL AND MAKE SURE IT DOES NOT HAPPEN AGIAN...AND WHY IT IS TAKING SO LONG IS THEY ARE MAKING SURE THE PROJECTS ARE GOOD ONES AND NOT JUST A BUNCH OF FLUFF..NEW CONCEPT.

Didn't you know that yelling is rather rude.....especially in red!!!

Originally Posted by Keedy

---he thinks he's the leader of the world or wants to be leader of the world...

The U.S. has the largest economy in the world, by a very wide margin. Whether the President of the U.S.--whether he be named Obama or McCain or Pailn or another name--his/her administration IS the economic leader of the world! It's an unavoidable position and for a POTUS to somehow act otherwise would not be in the best interests of the country.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

The U.S. has the largest economy in the world, by a very wide margin. Whether the President of the U.S.--whether he be named Obama or McCain or Pailn or another name--his/her administration IS the economic leader of the world! It's an unavoidable position and for a POTUS to somehow act otherwise would not be in the best interests of the country.

China might have something to say about who is bigger. I would also think that he has enough on his plate with the USA. So, tell me again how this global economy works? Do we send all our manufacturing overseas and put all our people out of work? Oh..too late!!!

I would like for someone to answer this for me. I just heard on TV that it looks like the health bill is about to happen. My question is:

If everyone is going to be required to have insurance, who is going to require that the insurance companies pay up. Right now, too many times, it is, "Oh, that's not covered." What good is insurance if they always come up with a reason not to pay and what good are new drugs if #1) you can't afford them and #2) insurance won't pay for them?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Keedy

China might have something to say about who is bigger...

The rise of China from a poor, stagnant country to a major economic power within a time span of only 28 years is often described by analysts as one of the greatest economic success stories in modern times. From 1979 (when economic reforms and strong central control by the government were first introduced in China) to 2006, China’s real gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an average annual rate of 9.7%, the size of its economy increased over 11-fold, its real per capita GDP grew over 8-fold, and its world ranking for total trade rose from 27th to 3rd. By some measurements, China has become the world’s second-largest economy, and it could be the largest within a decade.

Most recent numbers show the U.S. gross domestic product to be about $8 trillion per year. China's GDP is a little more than $4 trillion. So, at present the U.S. economy is slightly less than twice the size of China's. At present, the U.S. IS the largest economic power in the world. But it is quite clear that if economic trends continue, China will surpass the U.S. in a very few years.

Having said that, one must consider where the two countries were a little as thirty years ago. And where most experts expect them to be in the future. While the U.S. is currently experiencing a period of economic decline, China's economy continues to grow at close to a 10% annual growth rate. Most economists project that China will surpass the U.S. as the world's largest economy in a decade or so.

From one perspective, China already dominates the U.S. Our political leaders have chosen to spend at a rate that far surpasses our national income, much for uses outside the U.S. and having nothing whatsoever to do with sustaining or growing our economy. The result of those political decisions, combined with China's focus on domestic affairs and growing it's own economy, is that China has accumulated a huge treasury while the U.S. has become the world's largest debtor nation. In fact, were it not for China's willingness to both lend and invest in the U.S., it's clear that our political agenda is not sustainable. In fact, our political agenda is already almost totally dependent on China as a source for financing.

One must keep these facts in mind when assessing the policies and decisions of our political leaders. Again, it's important to note that THE CHOICES MADE BY U.S. POLITICAL LEADERS IN RECENT DECADES HAVE PRODUCED ECONOMIC RESULTS THAT ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE.

Yes, size does matter. And I'm afraid we will find it will matter even more in the near-term future. Said more simply, our way of life and our ability to continue to continue to make the kinds of political decisions which we've made in recent decades cannot continue.

Originally Posted by dillywho

...I just heard on TV that it looks like the health bill is about to happen....

Heard where? From some opinion-maker or entertainer?

Those who are watching the Congress and the administration closely have concluded that the negotiations are at a stage where there is no chance that a bill could be considered by both houses before the beginning of the August recess. Many have opined that proposed legislation might not even be formally considered this year. Certainly, there is absolutely nothing in writing as to the content of any proposed legislation. The President has said "don't bet against the passage of healthcare legislation"...but he doesn't say WHEN.

Simply put, Dilly, there is no answer to your question at the moment. And there may be no definitive answer for several months.

VK,
You will probably discount the fact that I caught just a portion of Neil Cavuto when he was interviewing one of the congressional people. I can't tell you which one, but he was having a hard time answering the questions being posed to him. He was the one that was saying how close they were to getting the bill through and saying how much money was going to be saved. Cavuto was asking him that if it is going to be such a savings, then would there be a tax cut. The guy just got a blank look on his face and kinda stammered around a bit. Cavuto finally pinned him down and he finally said that there would be. Cavuto asked him, "Do you promise?". Once again he had a blank look and after being asked a couple more times said, "Yes." Cavuto ended by congratulating the guy on his upcoming marriage, so maybe that will give you a clue as to who the guy is.

As for my original question, I just think that insurance companies should be held accountable. We, as consumers, hold other companies accountable for goods and services and I just think insurance should be no different.

Thanks for responding to me. I just like trying to learn as much as I can and asking questions seems to be a way of doing it. So many are being chastised for not caring or having the attitude of not being bothered and I, too, think we should all be concerned regardless of whether we agree on things.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Heard where? From some opinion-maker or entertainer?

Those who are watching the Congress and the administration closely have concluded that the negotiations are at a stage where there is no chance that a bill could be considered by both houses before the beginning of the August recess. Many have opined that proposed legislation might not even be formally considered this year. Certainly, there is absolutely nothing in writing as to the content of any proposed legislation. The President has said "don't bet against the passage of healthcare legislation"...but he doesn't say WHEN.

Simply put, Dilly, there is no answer to your question at the moment. And there may be no definitive answer for several months.

Looks like they are looking to try and steamroll something through quickly....

"and top advisers to Obama are discussing the possibility of relying only on Democrats to ram the legislation through Congress."

AND

Make being a millionaire not a goal to aspire to

"House Democrats plan to fund the broadest U.S. health-care expansion in four decades by increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans, imposing a surtax of 5.4 percent on couples with more than $1 million in income.

The legislation unveiled yesterday would place additional taxes on households with more than $350,000 a year in income and calls for further increases if the measure doesn’t hit a target for cost savings. The provisions are intended to raise $544 billion over 10 years. "

"The House is also proposing a mandate on Americans above a certain income level: People would be penalized as much as 2.5 percent of their income for failure to buy health insurance. Most employers would be required to insure their employees or pay a penalty equal to as much as 8 percent of their payroll."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20...a6fujb5nwlde_1

It's unbelievable that more people don't get what's really going on. Why so many people are willing to kiss their freedoms good bye and turn their life over to government is a mystery to me.

No mystery to me! Ther are too many Americans (or non Americasns for that matter) on the recieveing end of government largess. Sanity has dissapeared in American society in favor of vote getting politicians

Originally Posted by gnu

....Why so many people are willing to kiss their freedoms good bye and turn their life over to government is a mystery to me....

I don't want to turn my freedoms over to the government any more than anyone else posting here. But with regard to health insurance, OUR "FREEDOMS" ARE ALREADY GONE! They've been gone for a long time. The insurance companies and the corporations that negotiated the policies that cover their employees have seen to that a long time ago. For those old enough to be required to have Medicare as their principal health insurance, they too have lost any freedom that might have been associated with healthcare insurance. Your doctors have very little to say about how you should be treated. They will provide service only when the insurance companies or Medicare will pay them for providing it. Some clerk or bureaucrat is on the phone telling your doctor or hospital what treatments are "approved", when you should be sent home, and will be paid for. Is that a "lost freedom"?

All this has happened over the last 10-15 years and can't be laid at the doorstep of any particular President or Congress. We've had Presidents as well as Congresses from both political parties that have overseen this happening. Oh, I suppose you can blame the politicians for reducing the payments for services covered by Medicare so significantly that over 40% of the doctors in the U.S. refuse to offer service to patients who have Medicare as their principal form of insurance. Many big hospitals are following suit. Many of the best hospitals in New York city refuse Medicare insurance, as an example. Aren't those "lost freedoms"?

All this has happened in what we so lovingly refer to as the "free market system". From what I can see, there's not many more freedoms to be lost if a portion of the new healthcare bill has a government-provided insurance option. How could it be any worse than Medicare is now? And with a lousy economy and large companies really watching their pennies and dimes, wait until we begin to read of the dramatically reduced benefits and increased deductibles and co-pays with employer-provided insurance. Or even the withdrawl of health insurance as a company-funded benefit at all. It won't surprise me if lots of companies simply shift the total cost of health insurance to their employees, limiting their involvement to only negotiating the group policy. Heck, the big bank that I retired from did that twenty years ago!

These freedoms are already gone folks. And it happened while were looking and enjoying our increased wealth as the result of skyrocketing home values...even though in our hearts we knew it didn't make sense. Now that our home values and the economy are in the tank, we're suddenly beginning to realize the other "freedoms" that have been taken from us already. And the government had very little to do with it.
----------------------------------------
P.S. By the way, Bucco, who better to pay for the cost of a new healthcare plan than the wealthiest Americans who have been treated so royally by politicians, particularly from 2000 to 2008? Even if income taxes on the richest are increased by the amounts being discussed in the press, the top 3% or so will still be way ahead of where they were before the "Bush tax cuts". They'd still be enjoying marginal tax rates that are near the lowest level they've ever been since the enactment of the income tax in the U.S. almost 100 years ago.

VK....

"P.S. By the way, Bucco, who better to pay for the cost of a new healthcare plan than the wealthiest Americans who have been treated so royally by politicians, particularly from 2000 to 2008? Even if income taxes on the richest are increased by the amounts being discussed in the press, the top 3% or so will still be way ahead of where they were before the "Bush tax cuts". They'd still be enjoying marginal tax rates that are near the lowest level they've ever been since the enactment of the income tax in the U.S. almost 100 years ago."


You dont think this will dynamically affect small business and JOBS....and SUBSTANTIALLY !

It also, to me anyway..can see if you dont agree....is the absolute beginning of open class warfare in this country along with an admission that future generations are just going to be all the same ! Perhaps a bit overstated except for the class warfare part.

And, as you know, I believe that this is where our President wanted us to go from the very beginning

P.S. By the way, Bucco, who better to pay for the cost of a new healthcare plan than the wealthiest Americans who have been treated so royally by politicians, particularly from 2000 to 2008? Even if income taxes on the richest are increased by the amounts being discussed in the press, the top 3% or so will still be way ahead of where they were before the "Bush tax cuts". They'd still be enjoying marginal tax rates that are near the lowest level they've ever been since the enactment of the income tax in the U.S. almost 100 years ago.
__________________

Hmmmm The top 3% pay what percentage of the total share of taxes? Odd sense of fair.. IMHO
If you take their incentive to produce and they "Go Gault"...who is going to pick up the slack?

Originally Posted by Bucco

...You dont think this will dynamically affect small business and JOBS....and SUBSTANTIALLY !

No, I really don't. Even with the increased taxes, the marginal rates for the top 3% of earners will still be at historical low levels. Even if some small business owners achieve the $250,000 to $300,000 taxable income to get into this category, the tax rates will still be low enough not to disincent people from making the effort to make this much money.

Originally Posted by Bucco

....is the absolute beginning of open class warfare in this country...

I don't believe that either, for much the same reason as stated above. In fact, if the pattern of the last 20-30 years were to be permitted to continue--the rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to struggle with no increases in real income--that really would result in class warfare.

I might even argue that class warfare has already begun. The lowest income classes have not enjoyed any gains in real income in a decade or more, while the wealthiest Americans have enjoyed real and significant gains in real income during the same period. The result was a landslide election victory for liberal candidates in 2008, who are now legislating for the benefit of the lower classes. Even as obvious as this pattern seems to be, there is no significant upswelling of conservative political action or candidates that appear to be effective in reversing this pattern. We may not like it, but class warfare might have already begun. Unless there is some reversal in the single party dominance of the federal government beginning in 2010 and continuing in the 2012 elections, it will be pretty clear that class warfare actually has begun.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

No, I really don't. Even with the increased taxes, the marginal rates for the top 3% of earners will still be at historical low levels. Even if some small business owners achieve the $250,000 to $300,000 taxable income to get into this category, the tax rates will still be low enough not to disincent people from making the effort to make this much money.

I don't believe that either, for much the same reason as stated above. In fact, if the pattern of the last 20-30 years were to be permitted to continue--the rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to struggle with no increases in real income--that really would result in class warfare.

I might even argue that class warfare has already begun. The lowest income classes have not enjoyed any gains in real income in more than a decade, while the wealthiest Americans have enjoyed real and significant gains in real income during the same period. The result was a landslide election victory for liberal candidates in 2008, who are now legislating for the benefit of the lower classes. Even as obvious as this pattern seems to be, there is no significant upswelling of conservative political action or candidates to reverse this pattern. We may not like it, but class warfare might have already begun.

Get a grip...The democrats have been playing the class envy card for years. They have been playing the race card too. Tax the rich...tax the rich...nothing new here...

From what I understand the class envy thing has been big in England for a long time...look at them now.

In the USA..the American dream was to work hard and make it. Now the people say why bother...Uncle Sam willk take care of me!!!!!

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

No, I really don't. Even with the increased taxes, the marginal rates for the top 3% of earners will still be at historical low levels. Even if some small business owners achieve the $250,000 to $300,000 taxable income to get into this category, the tax rates will still be low enough not to disincent people from making the effort to make this much money.

I don't believe that either, for much the same reason as stated above. In fact, if the pattern of the last 20-30 years were to be permitted to continue--the rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to struggle with no increases in real income--that really would result in class warfare.

I might even argue that class warfare has already begun. The lowest income classes have not enjoyed any real income gains in more than a decade, while the welathiest Americans have enjoyed real and significant gains in real income. The result was a landslide election victory for liberal candidates, who are now legislating for the benefit of the lower classes. We may not like it, but class warfare might have already begun.

I will tell you VK....TONIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, I am just about to give it up !

You read what I wrote during the campaign(s) and I thought it would take AT LEAST 2 years to get to this point, and we may have a chance as a result of mid term elections to reverse this,but what he has done..what has been rammed down our throat....what is passed off as legislation...the lying he did during the campaign and continues to do....the anti politics stand he took just to win votes and to become the single most political President in my memory.

But he did it....people will wake up someday but it will be too late..maybe already it is. It is not the healthcare.....it is the total package...the bailouts...the government involvment in everything...at the other end, the organizations that have been put together that remind me of parts of history that I want to forget...the spending....the foreign policy is just beginning..backing the President of Honduras as he shoves that countries constitution you know where. And so much of it is being done "under the table"

I sincerely believe at this moment that he has brought this country to its knees and is meeting ALL of his expectations....we are all going to be equal....there is not more incentive to do anything...to make your life better because he/they will take it and pass it around to even things up.

He is rich...he lives rich and he always will.

Sorry for being so "down" but all I read is exactly as I and others predicted it would be...just so fast and so soon !

You tire of me saying ALINSKY..ACORN, etc. BUT Keep you eye on the ball as I know you will...it is all...ALL coming out the way folks said it would..ALL of it.