Originally Posted by Keedy

...In the USA..the American dream was to work hard and make it. Now the people say why bother...Uncle Sam willk take care of me!!!!!...

OK, that seems to be the case. Now, other than beating our gums about the problem here in TOTV, what to do about it?

By the way, that's not totally true. The upper income classes have grown as a percentage of the population in the last twenty years or so. Someone must be incented to work hard and invest to "get there".

If there has been an inequity it coincided with the "upper classes" sending the work overseas...Cheap labor= bigger profits...

I have only one difference with what you say, Bucco. That difference is that President Obama really didn't lie to us during the campaign. He campaigned on change and laid out his agenda pretty clearly. About the only thing that was unexpected is the financial meltdown that began to occur late in the campaign and put the world on life support just about the time of the inauguration. Beyond the actions and legislation designed to address that problem, he's pretty much doing what he said he intended to do during the campaign.

Our problem is that we became so accustomed to candidates saying one thing during a political campaign, and then doing another once elected, that we don't quite know how to deal with someone who is actually doing what he said he would.

I will compliment you on one thing--staying true to your beliefs based on your own analysis of the facts. You and I didn't always agree on the emphasis placed on one set of facts or another, but you never changed course. Good for you. I complement you for that.

In my case, I still haven't thrown in the towel on our new President. Even knowing what I do now, I still would not have voted for the McCain-Palin ticket. I honestly think things would be worse now had they been elected, mostly because of their inability to understand and react, particularly to the financial and economic situation. The leadership that John McCain has provided from his important slot in the Senate since he lost the election has been disappointing. It's almost as if he has gone into early retirement, even though the situation and the issues are dire. His abdication of his position of leadership is unexplicable and very disappointing to me. Governor Palin's recent withdrawal from elected office is also disappointing. She says she'll provide conservative leadership, but how? Had that team been elected, I am convinced that the situation would actually be worse than we're experiencing.

I certainly don't like or agree with everything this administration has done and I've said so. But on balance so far--as I've said--I'm not willing to throw in the towel just yet. I'm just hopeful that the GOP can present a candidate in 2012 that will permit me to honestly conclude that things could get better with a new and truly conservative administration. Otherwise, I'm stuck with the decision of voting for the devil I know--or simply withdrawing from the elective process.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Wow! The country encounters maybe the worst financial crisis in history. Then following a couple of months of debate among the politicos, we come up with a "stimulus" plan to try to re-start the economy. Now, only 5-6 months later, we're bitching because it isn't working.

Are you kidding? We'll be lucky to get the economy to turn into positive growth by the end of 2010, certainly not the end of 2009. It isn't really possible--in my opinion anyway--under this President with his plans, nor would it have been under any other President with a different set of plans.

All we're proving here is that Americans really do expect instantaneous gratification.

VK I believe you're wrong on this. I remember Obama speaking at Caterpillar I believe. He told the workers there would be NO layoffs if this Stimulus bill was passed immediately. The CEO of the company said regardless they would have layoffs. The Bill passed and they had layoffs within a few weeks. It was sold to us with having immediate results. NOT

Always ignored by the press, this President began right away....

This is from 2004 right after being elected senator....

"Look, I can unequivocally say I will not be running for national office in four years."


How long was it before he began his campaign ???

He continues to this day. I will hold on the promises about health care he made with the same amount of certainity until we see what is RAMMED through in haste and with an excuse worded somehow to say that he had no choice....that there was no alternative and we all know the truth,.there is...everyone wants change...so lets have input from everywhere !

And lest we forget, the famous stimulus bill, the subject of this thread was almost 50% social programs and unrelated to the economic problems, thus I stronglly object to those who say..."what else could we do"...for starters cut out the social programs rammed through and focus on the economy !

Originally Posted by JUREK

VK I believe you're wrong on this. I remember Obama speaking at Caterpillar I believe. He told the workers there would be NO layoffs if this Stimulus bill was passed immediately. The CEO of the company said regardless they would have layoffs. The Bill passed and they had layoffs within a few weeks. It was sold to us with having immediate results. NOT

Excellent point JUREK:

He said his stimulus plan would unleash a wave of construction and growth once he signed it into law.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29163714/

PS: This is what our President said in referring to this stimulus bill...

The package will set a "new higher standard of accountability, transparency and oversight. We are going to ban all earmarks, the process by which individual members insert projects without review," he said. "We're not having earmarks in the recovery package. Period."

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEHnc88OH6M[/ame]

Originally Posted by Bucco

PS: This is what our President said in referring to this stimulus bill...

The package will set a "new higher standard of accountability, transparency and oversight. We are going to ban all earmarks, the process by which individual members insert projects without review," he said. "We're not having earmarks in the recovery package. Period."

BUCCO: Now they are telling us about the same thing with the Health Care plan. I was watching TV last night and there was a discussion that there would be a minimum of close to 30 new departments created to administrate this monstrosity. Change we believe in

Originally Posted by JUREK

BUCCO: Now they are telling us about the same thing with the Health Care plan. I was watching TV last night and there was a discussion that there would be a minimum of close to 30 new departments created to administrate this monstrosity. Change we believe in

For the last week or so, I keep thinking...what have we done !!!!

We are 6 months in to this administration; I recall when the last President in 2005 or so suggested we talk about Social Security..TALK..he had an idea but said he was open to discussion, he was mocked and told we could not afford to even talk about it, and that there was not even a problem with SS !