Those who prefer their politics left of center are eager to engage the party line sound bites to demonize and assault honest, hardworking patriots who don't fall in lock step with the Obama "share the wealth" agenda. Even on this board we have been called greedy, selfish, the party of "No", and worse. I can't speak for the vast number of Americans who don't like the way the medical/health reform push is being rushed and crammed down the collective throats of the taxpayers but, I have attended a tea party protest and spoke with a lot of salt of the earth American taxpayers.

Not one, I repeat, not one said that they didn't want to see medical/health care reform. They supported reform but wanted to see it done with thoughtful insight...not haste, waste and pork. They wanted it done right. I spoke to Republicans, Democrats, minorities, union members, farmers and business executives who attended the protest and stood together in opposition to the bills being fast tracked in Washington. They were concerned about the truthfulness or lack thereof coming from Congressional leadership and the White House about the plans.

Many seniors were upset about the government raiding anywhere from $400 billion to $700 billion for the "reform" on the backs of the Medicare they depend on. All the pieces fit to paint a picture of cutting care, treatments, and budgets for Medicare seniors, while encouraging the inevitable in an efficient, cost effective, evilly conceived notion that medical care capital is better spent on the young. Of course, the near bankrupt Social Security system would also benefit by the early demise of the elderly and infirmed. Obama in his encounter with Joe the Plumber admitted he advocated transferring the wealth from the rich to the poor. By extension, it appears he is a strong advocate of transferring the health from the old to the young as well. What a cold, mercenary concept.

There were over 3,000 "tea *******" in Toms River, N.J. when we attended. They were asked to raise their hands if this was the first protest anyone had attended. Astonishingly, well over 90% raised their hands. I spoke to one of the "roadie" support staff about the nationwide tour now appearing in Toms River. The bus would be in Washington the next day. They had crossed the country and he told me the response had been the same everywhere they went. There were no racists, no agitators and no unruly conduct. The signage was bountiful, but with one exception, proper and respectful. The people I met and observed were not greedy, selfish or radical.

I chatted with a soft spoken, elderly farmer's wife. She acknowledged why she came almost 100 miles to be at the tea party. Quietly, with a hint of apology in her voice, she told me it was her fault because she wasn't paying enough attention when she voted for Obama. Her husband agreed.

All that's missing, is the violins! The Health Reform bill will pass. Plain and simple. Also, if the Public Option is not in the first, there will be a loophole that if the insurance companies don't step up to the plate and do the right thing for once, instead of making people go to court for an order to be able to get a bone marrow transplant (as a friend of mind did) if they do not step up to the plate, the Public Option will kick in. Watch.

You people continually think you're dealing with idiots here. Not with this administration!

Cabo like you I and every Republican and most Democrats are in favor of healthcare reform.

Any bill without Tort reform and allowing Insurance companies to compete in all 50 States is not Healthcare reform.

Even if it does pass, it doesn't take effect until 2013. After the 2012 elections of course... what a coincidence that is.

Once the Dem's get tossed out on their keesters in 2010 and BO looses the White House in 2012, watch how fast they start resending it. The mandate will be clear.

Originally Posted by cabo35

Those who prefer their politics left of center are eager to engage the party line sound bites to demonize and assault honest, hardworking patriots who don't fall in lock step with the Obama "share the wealth" agenda. Even on this board we have been called greedy, selfish, the party of "No", and worse. I can't speak for the vast number of Americans who don't like the way the medical/health reform push is being rushed and crammed down the collective throats of the taxpayers but, I have attended a tea party protest and spoke with a lot of salt of the earth American taxpayers.

Not one, I repeat, not one said that they didn't want to see medical/health care reform. They supported reform but wanted to see it done with thoughtful insight...not haste, waste and pork. They wanted it done right. I spoke to Republicans, Democrats, minorities, union members, farmers and business executives who attended the protest and stood together in opposition to the bills being fast tracked in Washington. They were concerned about the truthfulness or lack thereof coming from Congressional leadership and the White House about the plans.

Many seniors were upset about the government raiding anywhere from $400 billion to $700 billion for the "reform" on the backs of the Medicare they depend on. All the pieces fit to paint a picture of cutting care, treatments, and budgets for Medicare seniors, while encouraging the inevitable in an efficient, cost effective, evilly conceived notion that medical care capital is better spent on the young. Of course, the near bankrupt Social Security system would also benefit by the early demise of the elderly and infirmed. Obama in his encounter with Joe the Plumber admitted he advocated transferring the wealth from the rich to the poor. By extension, it appears he is a strong advocate of transferring the health from the old to the young as well. What a cold, mercenary concept.

There were over 3,000 "tea *******" in Toms River, N.J. when we attended. They were asked to raise their hands if this was the first protest anyone had attended. Astonishingly, well over 90% raised their hands. I spoke to one of the "roadie" support staff about the nationwide tour now appearing in Toms River. The bus would be in Washington the next day. They had crossed the country and he told me the response had been the same everywhere they went. There were no racists, no agitators and no unruly conduct. The signage was bountiful, but with one exception, proper and respectful. The people I met and observed were not greedy, selfish or radical.

I chatted with a soft spoken, elderly farmer's wife. She acknowledged why she came almost 100 miles to be at the tea party. Quietly, with a hint of apology in her voice, she told me it was her fault because she wasn't paying enough attention when she voted for Obama. Her husband agreed.

Cabo.... I have a couple of issues I would like to discuss.

Obama "share the wealth" agenda I think you know that in a rising tide all boats are lifted, to coin a phrase. Any time the pendulum swings to much in favor of one side the other is left out. During the last 8 years the middle class has been left out...Wall Street applauds restructuring and growth in job productivity but what those really mean is someone lost their job. I know in the last 5 years...this last year they told us if we accepted no raises then we would avert layoffs. Last week 280 more jobs were cut so far this year about 500-750 jobs have been lost. The middle class is hurting and needs help.

They supported reform but wanted to see it done with thoughtful insight...not haste, waste and pork. We have been waiting for healthcare reform for 30 years.... At this point, with some many people without healthcare something needs to be done.

Many seniors were upset about the government raiding anywhere from $400 billion to $700 billion for the "reform" on the backs of the Medicare they depend on. The Medicare they depend on is what they fear the most socialized single payer Health Insurance. The scare tactics that have been used on the elderly has gone beyond the pale. Death panels and thinning the herd...forcing electronic access to your bank accounts...none of this is true.
I am only 59 and I have a living will and medical directives not scary at all.

My last point is where were the Tea Party people when the last administration was running up the deficit? I have been told the real conservatives were outraged by the spending...but Bush still got a second term and I didn't see any tea parties. Now all of a sudden spending is out of control and the American Dream is dead. I really don't get it! (This is a question and not just Bush Bashing)

Hopefully we can all discuss this.....

PS ....no time for fishing yet.

instead of making people go to court for an order to be able to get a bone marrow transplant (as a friend of mind did)

I'm curious. when the government denies the bone marrow transplant because you are too old, too expensive or too whatever, who are you going to sue?

Right or wrong good or bad, private you have recourse. Government you have nothing.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

All that's missing, is the violins! The Health Reform bill will pass. Plain and simple. Also, if the Public Option is not in the first, there will be a loophole that if the insurance companies don't step up to the plate and do the right thing for once, instead of making people go to court for an order to be able to get a bone marrow transplant (as a friend of mind did) if they do not step up to the plate, the Public Option will kick in. Watch.

You people continually think you're dealing with idiots here. Not with this administration!

As a proud member of the "YOU PEOPLE" that you refer to nobody thinks that we ("YOU PEOPLE") are dealing with any such thing and wondering why you would even say such a thing.

The mood of your note is EXACTLY the sentiments of Pelosi...we won..live with it all "YOU PEOPLE"

COLOGAL

"Obama "share the wealth" agenda I think you know that in a rising tide all boats are lifted, to coin a phrase. Any time the pendulum swings to much in favor of one side the other is left out. During the last 8 years the middle class has been left out...Wall Street applauds restructuring and growth in job productivity but what those really mean is someone lost their job. I know in the last 5 years...this last year they told us if we accepted no raises then we would avert layoffs. Last week 280 more jobs were cut so far this year about 500-750 jobs have been lost. The middle class is hurting and needs help."

[I]The figures below are from 2008 and thus do not reflect anything from the current administration, BUT with creation of jobs happening ONLY in the government sector they will get worse.

In 2008, the average salary for federal civilian workers was $79,197 while the average salary in the private sector was $50,028 and the difference is INCREASING.
When you add in benefits, federal civilian workers compensation was $119,982 versus for the private sector, $59,909 which means the total compensation was DOUBLE that of the private sector.[/I]

Do we scream about that or simply Wall St. ? No, we are giving much more strength to the federal unions and adding MUCHO to the number receiving this money.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/...-rapid-ascent/

COLOGAL

"They supported reform but wanted to see it done with thoughtful insight...not haste, waste and pork. We have been waiting for healthcare reform for 30 years.... At this point, with some many people without healthcare something needs to be done."

85%...EIGHTYFIVE PERCENT of all americans have insurance at present ! The large vast majority of them are happy with their insurance coverage.

The total number of uninsured keeps changing depending on what the WH would like to sell this week, but no matter the number, they keep using numbers that include illegal immigrants.

In the 15% that do not have insurance many of them can get it NOW for free but do not make the effort..of course now they MUST get it or pay a fine and they MUST pay for it.

All that aside....CABO said in his original post "Not one, I repeat, not one said that they didn't want to see medical/health care reform." READ THAT AGAIN....have you not learned from the "stimulus" bill which was called "for the economy" and WITH NO ARGUEMENT HAD 60% PORK.

COLOGAL

"Many seniors were upset about the government raiding anywhere from $400 billion to $700 billion for the "reform" on the backs of the Medicare they depend on. The Medicare they depend on is what they fear the most socialized single payer Health Insurance. The scare tactics that have been used on the elderly has gone beyond the pale. Death panels and thinning the herd...forcing electronic access to your bank accounts...none of this is true.
I am only 59 and I have a living will and medical directives not scary at all."


I ask you.....congress has said it is a fact that medicaire will take a cut. Congress also said the bill is too complicated to read. I am on medicaire and have no idea what all that means. Do you ? Of course not. You cant as congress cant even tell us and they are writing it.

Based on that, tell me why I should not be scared ?

Originally Posted by dklassen

I'm curious. when the government denies the bone marrow transplant because you are too old, too expensive or too whatever, who are you going to sue?

Right or wrong good or bad, private you have recourse. Government you have nothing.

Actually, in many cases you currently have no recourse...they just wait you out time is on their side.

When you get to the point where you have more people in the cart than are pulling the cart no longer have America. We are very close.

Obama wants everyone in the cart with government pulling.

Chles is correct on one thing. They are no idiots. Obama's plan from the very beginning was do decimate the private sector and replace it with government.

What they are doing, they are doing on purpose. That's why we continue to loose millions of jobs and he does nothing. The ONLY way to create jobs is to incentivise business. Obama is doing the exact opposite.

Originally Posted by Bucco

COLOGAL

"Obama "share the wealth" agenda I think you know that in a rising tide all boats are lifted, to coin a phrase. Any time the pendulum swings to much in favor of one side the other is left out. During the last 8 years the middle class has been left out...Wall Street applauds restructuring and growth in job productivity but what those really mean is someone lost their job. I know in the last 5 years...this last year they told us if we accepted no raises then we would avert layoffs. Last week 280 more jobs were cut so far this year about 500-750 jobs have been lost. The middle class is hurting and needs help."

[I]The figures below are from 2008 and thus do not reflect anything from the current administration, BUT with creation of jobs happening ONLY in the government sector they will get worse.

In 2008, the average salary for federal civilian workers was $79,197 while the average salary in the private sector was $50,028 and the difference is INCREASING.
When you add in benefits, federal civilian workers compensation was $119,982 versus for the private sector, $59,909 which means the total compensation was DOUBLE that of the private sector.[/I]

Do we scream about that or simply Wall St. ? No, we are giving much more strength to the federal unions and adding MUCHO to the number receiving this money.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/...-rapid-ascent/

COLOGAL

"They supported reform but wanted to see it done with thoughtful insight...not haste, waste and pork. We have been waiting for healthcare reform for 30 years.... At this point, with some many people without healthcare something needs to be done."

85%...EIGHTYFIVE PERCENT of all americans have insurance at present ! The large vast majority of them are happy with their insurance coverage.

The total number of uninsured keeps changing depending on what the WH would like to sell this week, but no matter the number, they keep using numbers that include illegal immigrants.

In the 15% that do not have insurance many of them can get it NOW for free but do not make the effort..of course now they MUST get it or pay a fine and they MUST pay for it.

All that aside....CABO said in his original post "Not one, I repeat, not one said that they didn't want to see medical/health care reform." READ THAT AGAIN....have you not learned from the "stimulus" bill which was called "for the economy" and WITH NO ARGUEMENT HAD 60% PORK.

COLOGAL

"Many seniors were upset about the government raiding anywhere from $400 billion to $700 billion for the "reform" on the backs of the Medicare they depend on. The Medicare they depend on is what they fear the most socialized single payer Health Insurance. The scare tactics that have been used on the elderly has gone beyond the pale. Death panels and thinning the herd...forcing electronic access to your bank accounts...none of this is true.
I am only 59 and I have a living will and medical directives not scary at all."


I ask you.....congress has said it is a fact that medicaire will take a cut. Congress also said the bill is too complicated to read. I am on medicaire and have no idea what all that means. Do you ? Of course not. You cant as congress cant even tell us and they are writing it.

Based on that, tell me why I should not be scared ?

I am not sure what the salary of federal workers has to do with this....But you ignored most of my post so I will try one more time.....

Can we agree that the bill does not include, nor ever did, death panels?

You say that the bill is to complicated to read and yet I see post after post citing line numbers which then turn out NOT to be true. For example, the line number post stating the bill forced everyone to allow the government electronic access to the bank accounts. So the second one is:

Can we agree the bill never included a requirement for bank account access.

Many of us, including myself have health insurance...mine is tied to my continuing employment. 280 of my fellow employees lost their healthcare just last week. When will my time come? My company has no union.... My insurance has a lifetime cap so should I get cancer which requires chemo therapy I could be out of luck.

You are upset about the stimulus package.... I am upset about TARP, on Bush's watch, the unfunded Medicare Drug package, 2 unfunded 8 year wars and unfunded tax cuts for the rich. Why when these things happened were there no tea parties?

The president has said illegals will NOT have access to this but we pay for illegals now. Hospitals are NOT allowed to turn them away. As for the people who don't want insurance and who will be forced to get it. If they opt out of the program what happens when they get sick? Lets say they have a car accident what should we do. They didn't want health insurance....should we turn them away from the hospital? Deny them the emergency care they need?

If you think the healthcare bill is so bad how would you change it?

Originally Posted by cologal

I am not sure what the salary of federal workers has to do with this....But you ignored most of my post so I will try one more time.....

Can we agree that the bill does not include, nor ever did, death panels?

You say that the bill is to complicated to read and yet I see post after post citing line numbers which then turn out NOT to be true. For example, the line number post stating the bill forced everyone to allow the government electronic access to the bank accounts. So the second one is:

Can we agree the bill never included a requirement for bank account access.

Many of us, including myself have health insurance...mine is tied to my continuing employment. 280 of my fellow employees lost their healthcare just last week. When will my time come? My company has no union.... My insurance has a lifetime cap so should I get cancer which requires chemo therapy I could be out of luck.

You are upset about the stimulus package.... I am upset about TARP, on Bush's watch, the unfunded Medicare Drug package, 2 unfunded 8 year wars and unfunded tax cuts for the rich. Why when these things happened were there no tea parties?

The president has said illegals will NOT have access to this but we pay for illegals now. Hospitals are NOT allowed to turn them away. As for the people who don't want insurance and who will be forced to get it. If they opt out of the program what happens when they get sick? Lets say they have a car accident what should we do. They didn't want health insurance....should we turn them away from the hospital? Deny them the emergency care they need?

If you think the healthcare bill is so bad how would you change it?

I did not mention death panels at all. I suggested that there are going to be massive cuts in medicaire. I am on Medicaire. The congress has said they WILL NOT read the bill and thus it concerns me.

I did not say the bill was too complicated. I suggested that what I read inthe news there is great debate in congress; seems the Democrats are opposed to posting it online to be read 72 hours in advance because it is too complicated.

I never brought up any bank account access.

As far as your insurance is concerned....with the health bill, you can probably be assured that your company will pay the fine for not covering you as it is cheaper than paying for the insurance. Good gain for you ?

By almost every crtieria and review the TARP funding saved our economy. Sen Obama supported it. Why are you upset ?

What does Bush and any of his unrelated programs have to do with the thread on health insurance ?

Not sure what your tirade on illegals is all about. I simply mentioned that the President uses double language to inflate the uninsured. 85% or more of all americans have insurance and are happy !

Oh, and the reason for the government worker info is this...you are always posting about Wall St...does not the inflated government payroll bother you at all ?

The tax increases and the cost of care increases are party insensitive.

Are you buying the notion that the waste in Medicare is going to fund the reform? You mean they are going to cut Medicare that is forecast to go belly up in less than 10 years?

How can anybody support a program that has yet to be defined? Has yet to have had a cost estimate done.

It seems like the emphasis is on getting it done no matter what is in it and along with that.....NO MATTER WHAT IT COSTS.

I find it particularly interesting how much so called knowledge is out there about where and how much the cost abuse is and where to go get it. If it is so obvious, why has nothing been done to date? What makes anybody think the politicians will miraculously go into a cost reducing mode when history documents they never have....never will.

We will all in the long run have fewer services and higher costs for those. Plus to supplement what will have been lost we will pay more to retain or get back coverage we have been used to or still want.

btk

Originally Posted by Bucco

I did not mention death panels at all. I suggested that there are going to be massive cuts in medicaire. I am on Medicare. The congress has said they WILL NOT read the bill and thus it concerns me.

I did not say the bill was too complicated. I suggested that what I read inthe news there is great debate in congress; seems the Democrats are opposed to posting it online to be read 72 hours in advance because it is too complicated.

I never brought up any bank account access.

As far as your insurance is concerned....with the health bill, you can probably be assured that your company will pay the fine for not covering you as it is cheaper than paying for the insurance. Good gain for you ?

By almost every crtieria and review the TARP funding saved our economy. Sen Obama supported it. Why are you upset ?

Oh, and the reason for the government worker info is this...you are always posting about Wall St...does not the inflated government payroll bother you at all ?[/

Not sure what your tirade on illegals is all about. I simply mentioned that the President uses double language to inflate the uninsured. 85% or more of all americans have insurance and are happy !

Oh, and the reason for the government worker info is this...you are always posting about Wall St...does not the inflated government payroll bother you at all ?

It makes no sense to try and discuss things with you....

I explain that we have to cover illegals now when they go to the emergency room. To you I went on a tirade.

The Bush administration was given a surplus and they ran up huge deficits.... I asked where were the tea party people then.....no answer from you.

The TARP was great and the stimulus PORK.....

You rant against the brainwashed Democrats but I suggest you should look in the mirror.

If you are on Medicare then you directly benefit from a socialist program.

That I find very humorous.....

Originally Posted by chelsea24

All that's missing, is the violins! The Health Reform bill will pass. Plain and simple. Also, if the Public Option is not in the first, there will be a loophole that if the insurance companies don't step up to the plate and do the right thing for once, instead of making people go to court for an order to be able to get a bone marrow transplant (as a friend of mind did) if they do not step up to the plate, the Public Option will kick in. Watch.

You people continually think you're dealing with idiots here. Not with this administration!

I never thought that this administration is idiots but I suspect that some may be domestic enemies ot the United Stated constitution.

Yoda