Per ABC News: The administration is fighting S&P's indication that it is about to lower our credit rating - not because of current debt - but, because of their belief that partisan gridlock will prevent our country from reaching consensus on a sane future fiscal policy. See: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...downgrade.html

Welcome to the new world of kamikaze democracy --> a world where all of us will pay real money for the stupid rhetoric of a few. Oh, and let's not forget the political pandering of politicians who actually know better - but, who lack the courage to stand up to idiot ideologues.

I just finished, "In the Garden of the Beasts." [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Garden-Beasts-Terror-American-Hitlers/dp/0307408841/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312588458&sr=8-1[/ame]

There is a strong parallel to be found here.

Harbor

Maybe people can read S&P's release for themselves without editorial. How would that be?

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011...press-release/

Originally Posted by harbor53

...Welcome to the new world of kamikaze democracy --> a world where all of us will pay real money for the stupid rhetoric of a few. Oh, and let's not forget the political pandering of politicians who actually know better - but, who lack the courage to stand up to idiot ideologues....

Well, it has happened...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_919867.html



We will all pay more due to the inability of our government to agree to less spending AND more revenue.

In some countries, people who support such policies, die for less.

When Demint[ed], Bachmann, Palin, Cantor plus Boner (sic) and the rest of the clowns bend to their applause, I hope they have enough grace to do it in front of a guillotine.

And please - don't confirm your ignorance by laying this on the Democrats.

While they (the Dems) could have (and should have) responded better - the Bush war(s) and tax cuts plus a the greed of Wall Street lenders (who were never asked to pay a fair share on their earnings or their misjudgements) were at the root of this fiscal recklessness.

But, in the end, it was the Tea Party and the failure of more knowledgeable Republicans who just cost us all a ****load of money.

Damn them.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Maybe people can read S&P's release for themselves without editorial. How would that be?

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011...press-release/

You sir, demean the word,"idiot."

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Maybe people can read S&P's release for themselves without editorial. How would that be?

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011...press-release/

You'd better believe that S&P weighed the words they used in their downgrade press release very, very carefully. For me, a whole lot is said in just a couple of the paragraphs in the middle of the release...

The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government’s medium-term debt dynamics.

More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges.

The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed.

Elected officials remain wary of tackling the structural issues required to effectively address the rising U.S. public debt burden in a manner consistent with a ‘AAA’ rating and with ‘AAA’ rated sovereign peers.

The difficulty in framing a consensus on fiscal policy weakens the government’s ability to manage public finances and diverts attention from the debate over how to achieve more balanced and dynamic economic growth in an era of fiscal stringency and private-sector deleveraging.

These words can be summarized very easily.

The plan that was recently negotiated by members of the U.S. Congress isn't nearly enough to slow the unsustainable escalation of U.S. public debt.

We don't believe that the American government has the ability or inclination to make the obviously needed changes.

Watch how much this costs us. Watch how just the loss of that single letter 'A' will weaken our economy and further add to our national debt. Watch how this single move will push us closer and more quickly to the inevitable massive changes in our way of life. Forget who to blame for how we got here. Thinking about who has the will and the ability to get us out of this problem is the more important question. I'd say that those who state their case in simple phrases and single syllable words aren't the ones we need right now.

I wish I could say that this announcement would change the positions of the political ideologues in elected office on both the left and right, but I don't think it will. They are neither smart enough to understand nor at all interested in serving the people who elected them.

It's a sad state of affairs that even now, the partisans will argue is the fault of their political opponents. Even worse, even more alarming, is that there are some who will argue that a downgrade in our credit rating isn't all that important. One of them is running for President.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

You'd better believe that S&P weighed the words they used in their downgrade press release very, very carefully. For me, a whole lot is said in just a couple of the bullet points in the middle of the release...

The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government’s medium-term debt dynamics.

More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges...

These words can be summarized very easily. The plan that was negotiated by the various political factions in the Congress isn't anywhere near enough to slow the unsustainable escalation of U.S. public debt....and....We don't believe that the American government has the ability or inclination to make the obvioiusly needed changes.

Watch how much this costs us. Watch how just the loss of that single letter 'A' will add further to out national debt.

I wish I could say that this announcement would change the positions of the political ideologues on both the left and right, but I don't think it will. They are neither smart enough to understand nor at all interested in serving the people who elected them.

It's a sad state of affairs that even now, the partisans will argue is the fault of their political opponents.

Very well stated.

This could have been avoided...it was totally unnecessary. Both parties are at fault...but, let's not forget who made an issue out of an non-issue.

Where is the courage to deal with real problems without an ideological framework?

Taxes need to be simplified and raised so that everyone pays a fair share (and that also should result in lower taxes for small businesses). The growth of entitlements need to be slowed. Wars need to end. Stupid regulations based on special interest politics need to be curtailed. And weapon systems designed to fight armies that no longer exist need to be abandoned.

Want to keep us secure for the next 100 years??? - start investing in sending kids to school to learn how to hack and stop hackers. That is where the next world war will be fought.

Originally Posted by harbor53

...Taxes need to be simplified and raised so that everyone pays a fair share (and that also should result in lower taxes for small businesses). The growth of entitlements need to be slowed. Wars need to end. Stupid regulations based on special interest politics need to be curtailed. And weapon systems designed to fight armies that no longer exist need to be abandoned...

Wow! If Congress could just pass these thoughts in a simple one-page bill, we'd be well on our way.

Yes, the horrible truth is that the S&P down grade will cost every one of us. It will cripple those who can least afford to pay more. Investment will lessen and unemployment will increase. Just today Mellon Bank instituted a new fee assessed against those whose deposits are larger than 50 million. Money, 2.3 trillion so far, is flooding out of the market.

And yes, the tea party faction is responsible. Their unprecedented intransigence changed the rules and could not be countered because of the insane circumstance of tying budget cuts to the debt ceiling time bomb. There are lots of reasons why the tea party Congressmen are just plain dumb, but their greatest shortcoming is their failure to understand the essential nature and absolute necessity for consumer and investor confidence. It's a fundamental principle of Economics 101 for God's sake!

It may never be harder to wait until Congress reconvenes, but I suggest we wait. It's better than street riots. I will go way out on a limb here, but I am making the following prediction:

President Obama will work night and day to force Congress to pass an additional budget cutting measure before the end of this year. It will be styled like the plan he originally endorsed, including some new revenue and some new limitations on entitlements. It will be a compromise. And it WILL be large enough, at least 4 trillion, to guarantee with appropriate fanfare, that S&P restore the triple A rating.

This must happen. And because it must, the President's endless pursuit of it will become part of his legacy. But the irony of all of this will be that it will not be the President who will have compelled S&P to restore the top rating. After all, the President does not have the constitutional power to do any such thing. The President will simply funnel the loud demands to the ears of Congressmen, the collective voice of the American people.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

...it WILL be large enough, at least 4 trillion, to guarantee with appropriate fanfare, that S&P restore the triple A rating...

I certainly hope that your prediction comes true. But the restoration of the AAA rating almost certainly will not. S&P was slow and judicial in finally downgrading U.S. debt. It will be equally careful in considering a upgrade.

In the past, it has taken between 9 and 18 years for sovereign states to regain their AAA rating once they had been downgraded. Arguably our financial situation would still be dire, even with a $4 trillion plan to reduce deficits. Even with that amount, the U.S. would still have annual deficits of approximately $800 billion per year, which would be added to the national debt. That means that our national debt would still be increasing at a rate of almost 6% a year, even with the $4 trillion deficit reduction plan you speak of.

The S&P obviously by virtue of their claim of lack of confidence are not interested in political jousting.
In my opinion there is nothing Obama can do or say to restore the earned lack of confidence to earn a restoration of the AAA rating.
Just look at the circus of the last few weeks.

AAA ratings are the most coveted of all ratings...government or corporate wise. A corporate leader losing a AAA rating would be out of office Monday morning.

The issue is not R or D....it is not taking responsibility and doing what ever it takes to preserve the stature of this nation.
The politically acceptable in Washington has just been notified that it is financially unacceptable to those who understand the reality of FAILING to be financially responsive.

btk

Billy -

You guys with your smug, stupid rhetoric have scr-wed all of us.

You might not like me...but I was ready to invest over 2 g's into The Villages. That was good for you and everyone else who bought in.

Now, I'm on the sidelines until the dust settles. I will not be the only one....

What does that mean? In the short term...a bunch of money to folks who want to sell...plus the developers (who want to sell)...plus folks who just bought in (as their homes could decline inprice - even as they are still in construction).

Ignorant political decisions have consequences. Ask Iranians.

Biily Boy...Keep looking into the mirror and smiling...

I'm sure this will make you feel better.

Harbor

You sure like to call people bad names.Better watch out it don't come back to bite you.

Please girlfriends - I've been attacked by y'all before...

And, I elected not to respond...until real harm came to our country. If you need the quotes..well - they are on this forum.

Now, personally - I think it's shortsighted to imply that an honest exchange of opinions might result in anything other than an honest exchange of opinions.

I'm sure you agree.

Your forever pal.

Harbor

Originally Posted by harbor53

Well, it has happened...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_919867.html



We will all pay more due to the inability of our government to agree to less spending AND more revenue.

In some countries, people who support such policies, die for less.

When Demint[ed], Bachmann, Palin, Cantor plus Boner (sic) and the rest of the clowns bend to their applause, I hope they have enough grace to do it in front of a guillotine.

And please - don't confirm your ignorance by laying this on the Democrats.

While they (the Dems) could have (and should have) responded better - the Bush war(s) and tax cuts plus a the greed of Wall Street lenders (who were never asked to pay a fair share on their earnings or their misjudgements) were at the root of this fiscal recklessness.

But, in the end, it was the Tea Party and the failure of more knowledgeable Republicans who just cost us all a ****load of money.

Damn them.

will you ever stop blaming the president Bush?