Originally Posted by harbor53

Again - you sir, are an idiot.

What a classy guy.

Originally Posted by villagegolfer

Some people would think you are a little unstable and should be investigated by the authorities. I believe that your just a little man looking for attention. You do not impress me at all.

Lastly - you're so blinded by your preconceptions that you think I am advocating this kind of violence. Cholo - I'm not. I want nothing but for all of us to live in safety.

That means addressing social inequities before they incite violence. And it also means investing in education that will protect us into the future.

I know these are ideas you've never been presented with from Fox news (sic).

Again, I've said ya'll need to start reading. This is no joke and not a casual insult. Think of me as your Paul Revere.

The future is here and it's very scary.

Imbalanced or not, I remain,

Harbor

Originally Posted by harbor53

Lastly - you're so blinded by your preconceptions that you think I am advocating this kind of violence. Cholo - I'm not. I want nothing but for all of us to live in safety.

That means addressing social inequities before they incite violence. And it also means investing in education that will protect us into the future.

I know these are ideas you've never been presented with from Fox news (sic).

Again, I've said ya'll need to start reading. This is no joke and not a casual insult. Think of me as your Paul Revere.

The future is here and it's very scary.

Imbalanced or not, I remain,

Harbor

You talk alot but actually say little, you know that don't you?

Have another one.

Originally Posted by villagegolfer

You talk alot but actually say little, you know that don't you?

Have another one.

It's just that you don't get it. It's like Chamberlain responding to Hitler.

Again, please watch less Fox and try reading more.

Originally Posted by harbor53

It's just that you don't get it. It's like Chamberlain responding to Hitler.

Again, please watch less Fox and try reading more.

You assume alot, you know that don't you? Maybe that is your problem, assumptions? I seriously do not believe that you see the trees from the Forrest.

I do not watch television regularly and i read constantly. I also do not see any reason to try to impress people. You seem like a small person to me. I could be wrong, but that is my impression of you. Sorry if I am mistaken.

Originally Posted by villagegolfer

You assume alot, you know that don't you? Maybe that is your problem, assumptions? I seriously do not believe that you see the trees from the Forrest.

I do not watch television regularly and i read constantly. I also do not see any reason to try to impress people. You seem like a small person to me. I could be wrong, but that is my impression of you. Sorry if I am mistaken.

We can stop now..unless you really feel the need to continue. You think I'm unbalanced and I know your opinions are more based on an adherence to what makes you feel good about yourself and not based on reality.

My guess is that you think I wish you ill. I don't.

But, there are moments in history where bad choices have real consequences.

If I am wrong...well, you can stay smug and OK.

On the other hand - if I'm right, the Villages might not stay happy-town.

Have you ever visited forums about the Villages from your non-Village neighbors? I have. I've also spoken to some of these folks. Frankly, their opinions are not comforting.

Don't kill the messenger here. I want to move to the Villages. I want to have a relaxed and comfortable retirement. But - I fear that we are at risk of significant social dislocation.

If I insult you -- well, that reflects my own inability to cope with (what I perceive as) smug ignorance.

As I said in my post on religion, I grew up in the the world's largest community of death camp survivors. I also grew up with folks involved in seriously violent stuff. I have come to the conclude that being "civilized" is just a veneer. Humans are very capable of terrible stuff.

I hope I'm wrong. But, based on facts - I think I'm just being a realist.

Sleep well, brother.

Harbor

We don't normally get involved with the Political Talk forum. When members opt in it is 'at your own risk' and with Politics it is prone to getting heated up in here especially in this day and age. If you opt in and decide you no longer want to be a part of this forum you can unsubscribe to the forum.

That being said, we still abide by the terms of service that users agree to when joining the site that everyone needs to maintain respect for each other and ultimately agree to disagree on topics before it gets direct and personal. When discussions turn toward each other and off topic we are compelled to get involved. That can include deleting posts, threads, and/or suspending accounts. None of which is our desire as we would rather spend time working on ways to improve the site and add value to the users vs. moderating members.

Please keep discussions on topic even if you don't agree with one's opinion. Great discussions and debate are always welcome in the Political Forum.

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Admin

We don't normally get involved with the Political Talk forum. When members opt in it is 'at your own risk' and with Politics it is prone to getting heated up in here especially in this day and age. If you opt in and decide you no longer want to be a part of this forum you can unsubscribe to the forum.

That being said, we still abide by the terms of service that users agree to when joining the site that everyone needs to maintain respect for each other and ultimately agree to disagree on topics before it gets direct and personal. When discussions turn toward each other and off topic we are compelled to get involved. That can include deleting posts, threads, and/or suspending accounts. None of which is our desire as we would rather spend time working on ways to improve the site and add value to the users vs. moderating members.

Please keep discussions on topic even if you don't agree with one's opinion. Great discussions and debate are always welcome in the Political Forum.

Thanks in advance.

Of course you are right. I apologize for my part in the above posts. I should not fight back when insulted. I should just step back and take a deep breath and do nothing until I calm down.
Thanks for the reminder Admin.

If at any time anyone feels like discussions require Admin involvement don't hesitate to contact us. We would rather be the punching bag vs. members.

Originally Posted by Admin

We don't normally get involved with the Political Talk forum. When members opt in it is 'at your own risk' and with Politics it is prone to getting heated up in here especially in this day and age. If you opt in and decide you no longer want to be a part of this forum you can unsubscribe to the forum.

That being said, we still abide by the terms of service that users agree to when joining the site that everyone needs to maintain respect for each other and ultimately agree to disagree on topics before it gets direct and personal. When discussions turn toward each other and off topic we are compelled to get involved. That can include deleting posts, threads, and/or suspending accounts. None of which is our desire as we would rather spend time working on ways to improve the site and add value to the users vs. moderating members.

Please keep discussions on topic even if you don't agree with one's opinion. Great discussions and debate are always welcome in the Political Forum.

Thanks in advance.

Your post appeared timely. IMHO there was only one poster who was out of order with his rants From my point of view posters like this ought to be ignored because you can tell by their rebuttals that they haven't even read what another poster said. Finaaly Admin I am appreciative that you folks are aware that some venting is a necessary part of the political forum; provided of course its healthy venting vis a vis sick responses

Thank you again.

Originally Posted by rubicon

Your post appeared timely. IMHO there was only one poster who was out of order with his rants From my point of view posters like this ought to be ignored because you can tell by their rebuttals that they haven't even read what another poster said. Finaaly Admin I am appreciative that you folks are aware that some venting is a necessary part of the political forum; provided of course its healthy venting vis a vis sick responses

Thank you again.

I'm sure this is aimed at me. A bit of a history lesson.

I joined this forum just a few days ago. This is how I was greeted:


Quote:
Originally Posted by harbor53 View Post
1. The debt ceiling has been raised 3 times under this administration without a problem. It is only a problem now because the House wants to use it as leverage to address broader budget issues. This "manufactured crisis" is a stupid game that places the entire world economy at risk. We have already done serious damage to our economy as well as our leverage in the world with this silly partisan debate.

2. We actually have a very real budget crisis involving the nation's debt as a percentage of GDP was well as an potentially explosive problem involving the concentration of wealth and capital in fewer hands.

First, the debt. No party has the high ground on this issue. We were spent into a hole by the last administration and the bursting of the real estate bubble with the resulting Wall Street crisis made a bad situation worse. This is not Obama's debt or Bush's debt - this is our debt and we are all going to have to accept pain to resolve it.

That will mean higher taxes. Hopefully, this will be in the form of simplifying the tax code and curtailing deductions/subsidies - plus, lowering rates for small business as well as encouraging business investment in this country (no more PO box overseas tax shelters). Still, if you insist on 1950's tax rates, you better insist on 1950's government programs -- otherwise, you need to accept the hypocrisy in your belief system.

And -- of course, lowering the debt will require significant reductions in spending. And - those who think that entitlements and the military will not be touched have spent a day too long in Fantasyland. That is where most money is spent.

My own belief system leans me to look for discretionary spending cuts that weigh more heavily on those who can afford it. I think it is a mistake to cut spending in education (unless you like living in the third world) and in those government programs that protect our health plus those programs that root out fraud and abuse.

Those value judgment choices need to be made by folks who take governance seriously and who know the fine art of compromise and horse-trading. Ideologs need not apply. They will not help us get out of this royal mess we are in.

Lastly, the increasing gap between rich and poor needs to be addressed and soon. It is a social powder keg. Moreover, ours is a consumer-based economy. Want to get the economy moving again, shift some money to folks who will spend it instead of those who want to move more of their portfolio to gold. I'm not talking about handouts to the poor - I am talking incentives to move capital back into the system and into the hands of folks who will spread it around.

I am not a left-wing fanatic (well, not all of the time) - but, if you value your freedom and liberty you need to understand that you can't always keep what you want (Rollings Stones reference here). It is a lesson learned the hard way in France, Russia, and over and over in poorer countries.

Lesson over - class dismissed. Sorry for any hurt feelings.

Cheers!
Harbor

12RideHD responded:

Such a total lack of understand of our free market system and the root cause of our problems. We have the highest standard of living in the world, only 50% of our people pay taxes and we need more wealth distribution. Very sad thinking. It actually scares me that you vote.
__________________
Then Villagegolfer quoted this and added:

"Amen!!!"

+++++++++++++++

Well - at that point, I figured rudeness was what was expected.

This was also based on reading the bullying of others who expressed something other than a right-wing opinion. It bothered me that these folks wouldn't engage - it's not unusual for liberals to fold when faced with direct attacks. I'm not a liberal - though I share many of the same values. So I figured if my non-personal posts were greeted with language like "It scares me that you vote" and that opinion is applauded by another posted - well, then gloves are off.

So I was rude. I didn't start out that way - but, I figure that what is OK for the Gander is OK for the Goose.

I'll accept criticism that I was personal and rude as long as you accept that I was not the guy who started this kind of nonsense on this forum - I just raised it to its logical conclusion.

There are recent posts here about how quickly the veneer of civility can easily disappear. To a degree, my rudeness was trying to provoke bad behavior. If we succumb to anger and rhetoric here - what will happen when things are really at stake.

I really fear that we (not just in the US) are at a tipping point. We need to adjust spending and revenues. We need to address the problem of an increasing division between rich and poor. We also really, really need to slow population growth because there is only so much stuff to go around.

Rent the DVD of Children of Men. The film is interesting - but, the extras are really special. There is a long documentary on the likelihood of mass human migration due to environmental/economic forces.

I also really value the writings of Thomas Friedman.

While my methods might not be appreciated - sometimes catalysts are important - especially when change is inevitable. I am normally far more reasoned - but, I fear we have just stepped into a vortex of dislocation or as Yeats' wrote:

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

I apologize for my rudeness - but, there was a context for it.

Harbor

Originally Posted by harbor53

Kitten:

I learned a long time ago, to never threaten. In my world - we never do that.

That I call ya'll out for ignorant and costly rhetoric - well, that is what goes on here. You and Billy and the golfer and that guy with the cat...you've been rude and insulting to folks who differ from your opinion for a long, long time. If you need me to provide you with examples (which I have already done) just ask.

When I first joined this forum, I thought it was a nice place to discuss honest political opinions. Then I caught on. This is a place where folks just insult one another. Unfortunately, much of this is done out of ignorance and from a decidedly right wing perspective.

You know, I would debate you in a rational and reasonable way...but, for whatever the reason - the moderators have let this place descend to the WWF. Well, in terms of politics - I've never really worried about being the popular guy.

My Tea Party post (several days old) was only resurrected because the post I made today on religion was too informed for you to attack. Kinda pathetic, huh?

You think of the left as weak kneed liberals. Well, based on Obama's performance - that is an easy assumption. But, some of us -while we might support the President as he is our last best choice - well, we remember the costs of real social disruption.

While, I have disassociated myself from the hardcore left years ago - I know what it is capable of. It is the same kind of horror that the hard core right (remember Oklahoma?) has demonstrated. Smug and self-satisfied comments will not protect you or me.

I love London - I used to visit it every year. The riots sadden me. But - the rage that comes out from wealth being concentrated in so few hands with a huge number of folks left with no hope of mobility...well, stuff happens.

I love our country - but, I recognize that if we continue on the road we've been on...this country will explode in ways that make the last week in London look like Disney in late September.

You think of me as rude and abusive. I'm the best freaken friend you've got as hubris is a dangerous thing and our country is on the verge of a huge paradigm shift.

My guess is that you and your other pals don't fully understand what I'm saying. It's the same lack of intellect that causes you to resurrect this old post instead of addressing my most recent post.

Read Lenin. Read Marx. Read Mao. Read Marat and pray a Danton will emerge.

We have been so comfortably free for so, so long. Hopeless people are inherently tribal (see my most recent post on religion).

You think I'm rude? I'm honest and you guys - though you might not know it today - are in a remake of "The Wages of Fear."

Harbor

WOW. I dont think I have ever been rude or abusive on this forum to anyone.
As far as being comfortable and free for so long and all of the other acusations that you have made about me-
~ Every thing that I have, I have worked very hard for. I dont really have much anyway...live in a 900 square foot home which hasnt had any remodel since I moved in 30 years ago. We have only bought one new car in that time -most of our cars were well ove 200,000 before we got fifty bucks for them at the junk yard. My daughter still drives our oldest car which is a used camry with 300,108 miles on it. I dont have cable tv or a washer and dryer or a dishwasher. We only have one bathroom in this home where we raised 3 children. I own two pair of shoes-one pair for work and the other for non work or I go barefoot on hot days. We chose to spend our money on providing quality education for our children, instead of relying on the tax dollars and judgment of others. We also gave sacrificially, to legitimate charities ...
~I seriously doubt that you are the best freakin friend I've got. Jesus is my best freakin friend, always has been and He has provided me with other "kittens" as friends who are really LIONS of faith and kindness and generosity and unconditional love. I have PEACE that doesnt come from this world and its "things". My life is full of HOPE and most of my greatest desires have been fullfilled. As far as lack of intellect, I was the top of my class in college, for what that is worth. You can learn many things and have many letters after your name, but if you cannot think for yourself, it is all worthless.
~As far as your post on religion, it was unintelligible, but I chose not to point that out.
~Read Lenin, Marx and Mao? Why would I waste my time on the writings of men who were dictators and whose actions spoke loud enough to tell me what they were made of?
~You stated...the rage that comes out from wealth being concentrated in so few hands? Theft is theft, no matter what the reason. Having rage, does not legitimize criminal activity.

~By the way, you have offered to provide me with examples of my rudeness on this forum...I would like to take you up on that offer if you please.

Originally Posted by KatzPajamas

WOW. I dont think I have ever been rude or abusive on this forum to anyone.
As far as being comfortable and free for so long and all of the other acusations that you have made about me-
~ Every thing that I have, I have worked very hard for. I dont really have much anyway...live in a 900 square foot home which hasnt had any remodel since I moved in 30 years ago. We have only bought one new car in that time -most of our cars were well ove 200,000 before we got fifty bucks for them at the junk yard. My daughter still drives our oldest car which is a used camry with 300,108 miles on it. I dont have cable tv or a washer and dryer or a dishwasher. We only have one bathroom in this home where we raised 3 children. I own two pair of shoes-one pair for work and the other for non work or I go barefoot on hot days. We chose to spend our money on providing quality education for our children, instead of relying on the tax dollars and judgment of others. We also gave sacrificially, to legitimate charities ...
~I seriously doubt that you are the best freakin friend I've got. Jesus is my best freakin friend, always has been and He has provided me with other "kittens" as friends who are really LIONS of faith and kindness and generosity and unconditional love. I have PEACE that doesnt come from this world and its "things". My life is full of HOPE and most of my greatest desires have been fullfilled. As far as lack of intellect, I was the top of my class in college, for what that is worth. You can learn many things and have many letters after your name, but if you cannot think for yourself, it is all worthless.
~As far as your post on religion, it was unintelligible, but I chose not to point that out.
~Read Lenin, Marx and Mao? Why would I waste my time on the writings of men who were dictators and whose actions spoke loud enough to tell me what they were made of?
~You stated...the rage that comes out from wealth being concentrated in so few hands? Theft is theft, no matter what the reason. Having rage, does not legitimize criminal activity.

~By the way, you have offered to provide me with examples of my rudeness on this forum...I would like to take you up on that offer if you please.

Hang in there Katz. You didn't owe this explanation to anyone, but it was awesome, none the less.

Originally Posted by KatzPajamas

WOW. I dont think I have ever been rude or abusive on this forum to anyone.
As far as being comfortable and free for so long and all of the other acusations that you have made about me-
~ Every thing that I have, I have worked very hard for. I dont really have much anyway...live in a 900 square foot home which hasnt had any remodel since I moved in 30 years ago. We have only bought one new car in that time -most of our cars were well ove 200,000 before we got fifty bucks for them at the junk yard. My daughter still drives our oldest car which is a used camry with 300,108 miles on it. I dont have cable tv or a washer and dryer or a dishwasher. We only have one bathroom in this home where we raised 3 children. I own two pair of shoes-one pair for work and the other for non work or I go barefoot on hot days. We chose to spend our money on providing quality education for our children, instead of relying on the tax dollars and judgment of others. We also gave sacrificially, to legitimate charities ...
~I seriously doubt that you are the best freakin friend I've got. Jesus is my best freakin friend, always has been and He has provided me with other "kittens" as friends who are really LIONS of faith and kindness and generosity and unconditional love. I have PEACE that doesnt come from this world and its "things". My life is full of HOPE and most of my greatest desires have been fullfilled. As far as lack of intellect, I was the top of my class in college, for what that is worth. You can learn many things and have many letters after your name, but if you cannot think for yourself, it is all worthless.
~As far as your post on religion, it was unintelligible, but I chose not to point that out.
~Read Lenin, Marx and Mao? Why would I waste my time on the writings of men who were dictators and whose actions spoke loud enough to tell me what they were made of?
~You stated...the rage that comes out from wealth being concentrated in so few hands? Theft is theft, no matter what the reason. Having rage, does not legitimize criminal activity.

~By the way, you have offered to provide me with examples of my rudeness on this forum...I would like to take you up on that offer if you please.

Katz,
You are awesome and I admire you.

This thread is now closed.