[kittygilchrist]

I wonder what will happen to Snowden now?

[Cisco Kid]

This ruling will merely be ignored.

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by Cisco Kid

This ruling will merely be ignored.

Wish I didn't agree with you but I think you are so right.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

I wonder what will happen to Snowden now?

Not sure if your intent is to discuss Snowden or the NSA program. I assume from your phrase "privacy invasion" that you oppose the program.

I support the program under the assumptions we have in place the proper oversight.

The world has changed....I said in the thread on China landing on the moon, we are allowing eroding in this country, and in this case in the name of privacy. The judge said in his ruling, and I am paraphrasing, that he saw no evidence of a plot foiled. I see no evidence of someone innocent being harmed, and in an age that is based on electronic everything, I....just me..am not prepared to allow my country to allow anyone to keep pecking at our structure until we are not even viable.

I recall the freedoms we gave up during WW2 to insure the maintenance of our country, and have a real problem understanding anyone who does not put their country first.

I think this is a necessary program....only change would be a bit more transparent concerning our oversight.

[kittygilchrist]

My intent was to find out what people think about another fine mess in the USA...
Here's what the judge said:
“I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘arbitrary invasion’ than this systematic and high tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying and analyzing it without prior judicial approval,” said Leon, a judge on the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. “Surely, such a program infringes on ‘that degree of privacy’ that the founders enshrined in the Fourth Amendment.” (Washington post)

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

My intent was to find out what people think about another fine mess in the USA...
Here's what the judge said:
�I cannot imagine a more �indiscriminate� and �arbitrary invasion� than this systematic and high tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying and analyzing it without prior judicial approval,� said Leon, a judge on the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. �Surely, such a program infringes on �that degree of privacy� that the founders enshrined in the Fourth Amendment.� (Washington post)

It seems like a necessary invasion of privacy to prevent more attacks like 9/11 and the like. The Founding Fathers never envisioned planes flying into skyscrapers, the Internet, phone services, men in space, and many many other things.

It should be ignored IMHO.

[ilovetv]

I think this statement made on t.v. last night truly puts this into perspective:

�I would like to see the resolution not happen in a court. � but leave it to the Congress, meaning the democratic process, to decide to impose curbs on it. If a court says it is okay that doesn�t mean it has to be. Let the people decide in Congress assembly. That�s what Madison intended.�

--Charles Krauthammer

[coralway]

Actually, Judge Leon said that Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act, is likely unconstitutional.

[donb9006]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

I wonder what will happen to Snowden now?

He should be welcomed home as a hero...

Originally Posted by Cisco Kid

This ruling will merely be ignored.

Yes, I agree, they'll make a lot of speeches about how they'll "change this or that" which will amount to "sound and fury signifying nothing". Nothing of significance will change...in fact, the changes will probably be MORE invasive than before.

Originally Posted by Bucco

Not sure if your intent is to discuss Snowden or the NSA program. I assume from your phrase "privacy invasion" that you oppose the program.

I support the program under the assumptions we have in place the proper oversight.

The world has changed....I said in the thread on China landing on the moon, we are allowing eroding in this country, and in this case in the name of privacy. The judge said in his ruling, and I am paraphrasing, that he saw no evidence of a plot foiled. I see no evidence of someone innocent being harmed, and in an age that is based on electronic everything, I....just me..am not prepared to allow my country to allow anyone to keep pecking at our structure until we are not even viable.

I recall the freedoms we gave up during WW2 to insure the maintenance of our country, and have a real problem understanding anyone who does not put their country first.

I think this is a necessary program....only change would be a bit more transparent concerning our oversight.

Proper oversight? By whom?

How would you like "some guy" watching, listening to everything you do? That's basically what's happening now. Everywhere we go, we're recorded, all conversations and emails and even these posts, are recorded.

We started giving up freedoms a long long time ago. The Civil War took a bunch, WWI and II more, every time "something" happens, we lose more. There's always going to be "something" happening. You can't achieve complete security...never...

Put the "country" first? Really? I don't see that happening by our "leaders", they put their sponsors first...always. What IS "our country" anyway? It's not the government. Put the people first? Spying on their every communication isn't putting them first.

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

My intent was to find out what people think about another fine mess in the USA...
Here's what the judge said:
“I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘arbitrary invasion’ than this systematic and high tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying and analyzing it without prior judicial approval,” said Leon, a judge on the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. “Surely, such a program infringes on ‘that degree of privacy’ that the founders enshrined in the Fourth Amendment.” (Washington post)

The USA has become a stinking heap of messes...brought to us by "our leaders". They have NO right to spy and listen to us. They collect EVERYTHING.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

It seems like a necessary invasion of privacy to prevent more attacks like 9/11 and the like. The Founding Fathers never envisioned planes flying into skyscrapers, the Internet, phone services, men in space, and many many other things.

It should be ignored IMHO.

Oh yes...9-11, the catch all for anything they want to do.

They keep you in fear, so they can get your permission to "protect" you.

Is "freedom", "privacy" an archaic notion? Something we can't have any more? That's the impression I get from your post.

This entire program is so wrong on so many levels and we wouldn't know anything about it if Snowden didn't talk about it.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

I think this statement made on t.v. last night truly puts this into perspective:

�I would like to see the resolution not happen in a court. � but leave it to the Congress, meaning the democratic process, to decide to impose curbs on it. If a court says it is okay that doesn�t mean it has to be. Let the people decide in Congress assembly. That�s what Madison intended.�

--Charles Krauthammer

And Charlie is never wrong.

[Bogie Shooter]

Put Snoden in Jail!

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Not sure if your intent is to discuss Snowden or the NSA program. I assume from your phrase "privacy invasion" that you oppose the program.

I support the program under the assumptions we have in place the proper oversight.

The world has changed....I said in the thread on China landing on the moon, we are allowing eroding in this country, and in this case in the name of privacy. The judge said in his ruling, and I am paraphrasing, that he saw no evidence of a plot foiled. I see no evidence of someone innocent being harmed, and in an age that is based on electronic everything, I....just me..am not prepared to allow my country to allow anyone to keep pecking at our structure until we are not even viable.

I recall the freedoms we gave up during WW2 to insure the maintenance of our country, and have a real problem understanding anyone who does not put their country first.

I think this is a necessary program....only change would be a bit more transparent concerning our oversight.

Snowden is a traitor, let Russia have him. If you have nothing to fear why would you be concerned about the NSA listening in on your conversations. Mine are kind of boring and I think they would tune out real quick!

[Bucco]

There are a few problems with both the Judge's decision and some posts on here.

First on section 215.....the administration of BOTH parties have referred to this as a major intelligence program thus it seems to me that it is not possible to have anyone strike down the program anytime soon.

Secondly, the general basis for all of this goes to Smith vs Maryland in 1979 which reads...

"we doubt that people in general entertain any actual expectation of privacy in the numbers they dial. All telephone users realize that they must �convey� phone numbers to the telephone company, since it is through telephone company switching equipment that their calls are completed. All subscribers realize, moreover, that the phone company has facilities for making permanent records of the numbers they dial, for they see a list of their long-distance (toll) calls on their monthly bills."

This before the electronic age...that decision said �We therefore conclude that petitioner in all probability entertained no actual expectation of privacy in the phone numbers he dialed, and that, even if he did, his expectation was not �legitimate.� The installation and use of a pen register, consequently, was not a �search,� and no warrant was required,� reads the holding."

That is all the legalese....point is that we need such an act in today's age. The fact that we have this internet to complain about it does not much change the basic facts involved.

This is not a political issue...it was, but not anymore. I believe in my heart that our enemies...and that is anyone who is jealous or covets our power and money will do whatever is necessary to bring the country down. They are aware that military is not going to do it, and thus are using this and we sit here and complain about how bad we have it while they eat away at us.

I will never forget Nikita Khrushchev saying the following.......""we do not have to destroy America with Missiles; America will destroy itself from within."

He was correct and we continue on that path. We are so interested in OURSELVES we have forgot our country. We have such short memories in this country. We are like our children now...we need a trophy just for showing up.

I do wish us better oversight reporting and frankly I have no idea on how to define that. Those with that charged responsibility need to work on that part of it. By subject matter, they speak in very vague generalities but I am satisfied that the right is being done.

[Villages PL]

I'm not an expert on this subject, by any means, just a casual observer. But my information is that no one is listening to our personal telephone conversations. They are getting information on telephone records from the telephone companies, such as, "who's calling who". So, for example, if your records show that you called a fertilizer company about buying fertilizer and you also called someone in Pakistan, that would be suspicious. That might be someone who's planning on building a bomb. That's the type of thing they are looking for and I don't see anything wrong with it.

[donb9006]

This is how countries are destroyed. They tighten and tighten, they take this away, and then that. They spy on their own citizens more and more. And then people begin to disappear. Until ALL the dissidents are gone. And then it's too late. You've lost everything.

Think Germany. MOST of the people loved Hitler and what he was doing...for safety, for security, for the country. People said the same things that were said here today...we NEED these things! What do you have to hide? We MUST give up our personal sovereignty for the good of all. It's the same script, yet we've forgotten...