[Bucco]

Originally Posted by gomoho

Well when the boys on the hill can show me what concrete things they have accomplished as a result of this snooping I might be more inclined to say it serves a purpose. I have nothing to hide, but I resent the fact they are wasting all this time and money with no results once again. But guess we are use that now and just roll over and accept it. Can you imagine how prosperous this country would be without all the waste?!?

Since this budget is classified, it is difficult to discuss the specifics, but i sure wish folks would rise up like this on the many many public boondoggles....the money spent, in many cases on unknown things until read. Why we accept THAT KIND of spending and critique our government for doing what the constitution charges them to do...protect the nation, but accept with little complaint the spending on things that, at least I, find completely out of their pay grade.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Bucco

First of all, you (and I) are way off the subject of the NSA program and thus my response will be terse so others can stay on the subject.

I really do not understand your post at all. Am I passionate about my country...YES..I make no apologies about that.

Do I believe that people do not speak their own minds...YES. They repeat what someone tells them, and never question or do their own research. I am critical NOT OF a differing opinion...a differing opinion will drive me to research more. I AM CRITICAL when their opinion is a repeat of what they were told to believe, be it a party leader, a talking head on TV, etc.

WHY is that a big deal to me....unlike others, I think we are being destroyed by our own laziness, and dis interest in what happens in my and our country. Even our leaders pass laws without even knowing what is in them and that to me is disgraceful.

Sorry for mouthing off......I am never critical of another's opinion, but an opinion requires much more than listening to one side only

Sorry you feel that way. I feel we have a better country than any where else. I am retired military and perhaps that is my advantage. Anyway, know that America is the best nation in the world and healthy. Calm down and let those in charge run the day to day.

[jebartle]

are those with intentions of doing our country harm...I repeat, IMHO

[donb9006]

Originally Posted by Bucco

I read 1984, probably in 1964

Of course nothing is perfectly safe, thus we have laws to protect. We have law ENFORCEMENT because everyone will not follow the law.

I would be curious as to, in your opinion, is being intruded on exactly ? In what way are you being intruded upon ? If there was even an inkling that what you hint at....people simply listening to you or I or any innocent American citizen for no apparent reason...SOMETHING NEVER DONE OR CLAIMED TO HAVE BEEN DONE, I will join you with a placard. The requirements are clearly spelled out and, to my knowledge, there has never been a claim to the contrary

As I recall my history, the spying in those other lands you mention was one citizen on another citizen fostered publicly by the government. And nothing else, and would ask you to give examples otherwise.

It's time to reread it...you'll see the parallels.

Think about what you wrote...law enforcement...not crime prevention. The police come AFTER a crime has already occurred. Not much help to the victim unless it's a "white collar" crime. Violent crime...police, law enforcement...has no effect. See the crime statistics in any large urban center.

What is intruded upon? My freedom, my privacy. The average person commits three felonies a day because laws are so open ended and non specific. Police CAN arrest anyone for anything and they do. Watch youtube videos of police abuse. There are now more rules and regulations than ever before. You're stopped and searched randomly...at "drug checkpoints". I have NO electronic privacy, everything is recorded. Is there REALLY a difference between electronic communication and letters? There shouldn't be...they're both private correspondence. The difference is electronic can be "read" without the recipient knowing it. And they do. Not by people, machines parse everything.

I'm ex-military too and I know for a FACT that much of the "official history" that will be passed down for children to learn...is false, a lie, made up propaganda to make the citizens feel good. I know it because I was there. And what's in the history books...just ain't true. There are many people who could be a Snowden but know what would happen to them if they said something. They'd be hunted as he is.

We only "know" what they choose to say/tell us. Our government should be open, not opaque. Our government has more secrets from it's own people than it has against it's enemies! And why do we have enemies? Not the reason you're told. They're not jealous of our freedom...that's ridiculous. They hate us because we move in and take away THEIR freedom to live the way THEY want to live.

Why would you defend your government lying to you? And decry the man who told you they do?

You never heard the new phrase..."see something, say something"? That's encouraging citizens to "watch" each other for something "unusual".

"Terrorism" is just the latest in a long line of boogymen...not to be confused with our own bogyman...to be afraid of so they can take control.

Jane Fonda was right about Vietnam. Only now are people beginning to realize it.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by donb9006

It's time to reread it...you'll see the parallels.

Think about what you wrote...law enforcement...not crime prevention. The police come AFTER a crime has already occurred. Not much help to the victim unless it's a "white collar" crime. Violent crime...police, law enforcement...has no effect. See the crime statistics in any large urban center.

What is intruded upon? My freedom, my privacy. The average person commits three felonies a day because laws are so open ended and non specific. Police CAN arrest anyone for anything and they do. Watch youtube videos of police abuse. There are now more rules and regulations than ever before. You're stopped and searched randomly...at "drug checkpoints". I have NO electronic privacy, everything is recorded. Is there REALLY a difference between electronic communication and letters? There shouldn't be...they're both private correspondence. The difference is electronic can be "read" without the recipient knowing it. And they do. Not by people, machines parse everything.

I'm ex-military too and I know for a FACT that much of the "official history" that will be passed down for children to learn...is false, a lie, made up propaganda to make the citizens feel good. I know it because I was there. And what's in the history books...just ain't true. There are many people who could be a Snowden but know what would happen to them if they said something. They'd be hunted as he is.

We only "know" what they choose to say/tell us. Our government should be open, not opaque. Our government has more secrets from it's own people than it has against it's enemies! And why do we have enemies? Not the reason you're told. They're not jealous of our freedom...that's ridiculous. They hate us because we move in and take away THEIR freedom to live the way THEY want to live.

Why would you defend your government lying to you? And decry the man who told you they do?

You never heard the new phrase..."see something, say something"? That's encouraging citizens to "watch" each other for something "unusual".

"Terrorism" is just the latest in a long line of boogymen...not to be confused with our own bogyman...to be afraid of so they can take control.

Jane Fonda was right about Vietnam. Only now are people beginning to realize it.

Interesting. You like others, have more knowledge on this subject than I, but what separates you from the PAC is that you deliver your message without becoming historical or insulting to others. Keep up the good work.

Lou

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

Interesting. You like others, have more knowledge on this subject than I, but what separates you from the PAC is that you deliver your message without becoming historical or insulting to others. Keep up the good work.

Lou

On the assumption, you speak of me...I apologize for being "insulting" to you...not my intent. Not sure about the "historical" label.

I will take my leave, to allow you and others to sort it out, but the last post had NO facts...simply a vague bunch of generalities.

Have a great time..sorry to bother you