[Paper1]

Originally Posted by joldnol

He is no hero but United is definitely the villain and were the party that was 100% wrong in this situation. They deserve the financial hit they are taking.

This is now a media driven lawsuit and will be worth millions more than it should. Media is still very powerful, it elected the last two presidents by the quality and quantity of their coverage. Although everyone denies it, as a people we are very much influenced by what we hear from media. United is screwed and I don't believe the punishment fits the crime. I guess this is what makes America special.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Paper1

This is now a media driven lawsuit and will be worth millions more than it should. Media is still very powerful, it elected the last two presidents by the quality and quantity of their coverage. Although everyone denies it, as a people we are very much influenced by what we hear from media. United is screwed and I don't believe the punishment fits the crime. I guess this is what makes America special.

Excellent summary.

[ColdNoMore]

What makes this great nation "special," is a free press whereby those with power/money cannot get away with injustices...based on those advantages.

The pen/written word...is the great equalizer for the masses.

[John_W]

Problem 1) United used police to solve a business decision.

Problem 2) The police had no idea why they were removing the passenger.

The police have stated from now on, they will not remove passengers from flights because of over-booking. The last I read, was all 3 police officers have been suspended.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by John_W

Problem 1) United used police to solve a business decision.

Problem 2) The police had no idea why they were removing the passenger.

The police have stated from now on, they will not remove passengers from flights because of over-booking. The last I read, was all 3 police officers have been suspended.

Excellent summary as well.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by John_W

Problem 1) United used police to solve a business decision.

Problem 2) The police had no idea why they were removing the passenger.

The police have stated from now on, they will not remove passengers from flights because of over-booking. The last I read, was all 3 police officers have been suspended.

Which leads to the obvious problem #3----The police ALLOWED themselves to be used in a civil matter----again, they should have told the parties to this CONTRACTUAL dispute to settle it in civil court.

[dillywho]

I read a letter from a pilot's wife on this and it is not what the media has portrayed.

This is paraphrased into what she said:

ALL airlines overbook. If not, then too many flights will not be filled to capacity. People often book a flight, then decide to take an earlier/later flight and don't both cancelling any other flights they have booked on other airlines. Flying at less than capacity is costly. This in turn can bring about higher fares, etc.

The fine print (yeah that) that most of us simply agree to without actually reading, tells you that a ticket does not guarantee you a seat. The other policies are also located in this fine print.

As for the flight crew: Airlines only bump the passengers to get a crew to another flight out of necessity. Just like any other business, staffing is subject to sudden illness, etc. Sometimes it becomes necessary to fly in another crew in order to not cancel a flight. FAA rules state that x-number of crew must be on every flight. Every time a flight has to be cancelled, there is a rippling effect. It is just not that one flight affected. Think about that the next time your flight gets cancelled. Better a delayed flight than a cancelled flight.

She also said that passengers are not 'randomly' selected for involuntary bumping. They go by next available flights, those having to connect to other flights, date of ticket purchase, and some of the other factors I forgot. Race, as this guy was screaming, nor random selection by drawing numbers or whatever does not even come into play.

Not only was United Security involved, so were police and Federal Air Marshalls. Once they were involved, the crew of this flight was out of it....period.

This man was his own problem. After a bit of research on him, turns out he is not as important as he rates himself. His appointments can be rescheduled; other things with some other passengers cannot. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior. Too many people are totally absorbed with themselves and this guy fits that bill perfectly. Raising your voice and objecting is one thing. Kicking and screaming and having to be forcibly removed is quite another. He was being anything but docile as many men as it took to remove him.

When you are bumped from a flight, not only are you compensated (often handsomely) but get priority seating on the next available flight. I even got upgraded to first class one time! Works for me.

Just goes to prove that you cannot believe what the media feeds you. Remember, they are out for ratings, not reason and truth.

[Steve9930]

There is absolutely no reason for Airlines to over book a flight. Change the business model and make it more like buying a cruise. You want it you buy it. Want to reschedule buy insurance. Don't make the flight you still bought the seat. They are using a model that was set years ago when you could make a reservation and did not pay until you arrived at the airport and checked in. The one airline that I know of that does not over book is Allegiant. There are others. So to say they all over book is not correct. Airlines will do as much as we let them. Vote with your pocket book. And lets also get this straight, the flight was no over booked. United could have very easily put this crew on a shuttle. Also the compensation very rarely is worth the wait all things considered.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by dillywho

i read a letter from a pilot's wife on this and it is not what the media has portrayed.

This is paraphrased into what she said:

All airlines overbook. If not, then too many flights will not be filled to capacity. People often book a flight, then decide to take an earlier/later flight and don't both cancelling any other flights they have booked on other airlines. Flying at less than capacity is costly. This in turn can bring about higher fares, etc.

The fine print (yeah that) that most of us simply agree to without actually reading, tells you that a ticket does not guarantee you a seat. The other policies are also located in this fine print.

As for the flight crew: Airlines only bump the passengers to get a crew to another flight out of necessity. Just like any other business, staffing is subject to sudden illness, etc. Sometimes it becomes necessary to fly in another crew in order to not cancel a flight. Faa rules state that x-number of crew must be on every flight. Every time a flight has to be cancelled, there is a rippling effect. It is just not that one flight affected. Think about that the next time your flight gets cancelled. Better a delayed flight than a cancelled flight.

She also said that passengers are not 'randomly' selected for involuntary bumping. They go by next available flights, those having to connect to other flights, date of ticket purchase, and some of the other factors i forgot. Race, as this guy was screaming, nor random selection by drawing numbers or whatever does not even come into play.

Not only was united security involved, so were police and federal air marshalls. Once they were involved, the crew of this flight was out of it....period.

This man was his own problem. After a bit of research on him, turns out he is not as important as he rates himself. His appointments can be rescheduled; other things with some other passengers cannot. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior. Too many people are totally absorbed with themselves and this guy fits that bill perfectly. Raising your voice and objecting is one thing. Kicking and screaming and having to be forcibly removed is quite another. He was being anything but docile as many men as it took to remove him.

When you are bumped from a flight, not only are you compensated (often handsomely) but get priority seating on the next available flight. I even got upgraded to first class one time! Works for me.

Just goes to prove that you cannot believe what the media feeds you. Remember, they are out for ratings, not reason and truth.

excellent.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

There is absolutely no reason for Airlines to over book a flight. Change the business model and make it more like buying a cruise. You want it you buy it. Want to reschedule buy insurance. Don't make the flight you still bought the seat. They are using a model that was set years ago when you could make a reservation and did not pay until you arrived at the airport and checked in. The one airline that I know of that does not over book is Allegiant. There are others. So to say they all over book is not correct. Airlines will do as much as we let them. Vote with your pocket book. And lets also get this straight, the flight was no over booked. United could have very easily put this crew on a shuttle. Also the compensation very rarely is worth the wait all things considered.

The courts will sort this out- keep the feds out of booking policy. If overbooking is prohibited, I imagine that refundable tickets will be history. Result= higher prices for consumer.

[biker1]

Involuntary bumping happens at the rate of 1 in 10,000. It is a relatively rare event. I have been voluntarily bumped numerous times and was well compensated for giving up my seat. In most instances, the delay in reaching my final destination was a couple of hours. In a couple of cases, I wound up on more direct flights that actually got me to my final destination before my original flight. My all time favorite was when traveling on a free ticket, via frequent flyer miles, I agreed to be bumped twice and got home with only a modest delay from the original flight. In my experience, the compensation was well worth the typically small delay in getting to my final destination.

A lot of airline travel is nothing like a cruise. From experience, I can tell you that a lot of business travel changes at the last minute. With the exception of some shuttle flights where you essentially paid when you were on the flight, the vast majority (perhaps all) of my business travel has been paid at booking for the last 30 years+, not when I got to the airport. You can vote with your pocketbook and not travel on airlines that overbook but the net result is you won't be doing much traveling.

The overbooking process works very well from my experience. The reason it works well is that there are people who are more than happy to give up their seats for compensation so the number of involuntary bumpings is small. Obviously it pays for the airlines to do this otherwise they wouldn't. I have flown several million miles and I have never been involuntarily bumped. I have, however, been involuntarily bumped from a hotel. They paid for a cab ride down the street to another hotel and paid for the night. I was back the next night where I should be.

Originally Posted by Steve9930

There is absolutely no reason for Airlines to over book a flight. Change the business model and make it more like buying a cruise. You want it you buy it. Want to reschedule buy insurance. Don't make the flight you still bought the seat. They are using a model that was set years ago when you could make a reservation and did not pay until you arrived at the airport and checked in. The one airline that I know of that does not over book is Allegiant. There are others. So to say they all over book is not correct. Airlines will do as much as we let them. Vote with your pocket book. And lets also get this straight, the flight was no over booked. United could have very easily put this crew on a shuttle. Also the compensation very rarely is worth the wait all things considered.

[joldnol]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

What makes this great nation "special," is a free press whereby those with power/money cannot get away with injustices...based on those advantages.

The pen/written word...is the great equalizer for the masses.

Exactly....United is getting exactly what they deserve. I thought psuedo-conservatives loved the free market.

[Madelaine Amee]

Today the attorney for this man and his daughter (he has five children) were on TV talking about the extensive damage he sustained during the dragging incidence. They were throwing around numbers for damages and someone said it is quite possible United could be looking at a $10M suit. I am sure there will be much more discussed on the evening news.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by dillywho

I read a letter from a pilot's wife on this and it is not what the media has portrayed.

This is paraphrased into what she said:

ALL airlines overbook. If not, then too many flights will not be filled to capacity. People often book a flight, then decide to take an earlier/later flight and don't both cancelling any other flights they have booked on other airlines. Flying at less than capacity is costly. This in turn can bring about higher fares, etc.

The fine print (yeah that) that most of us simply agree to without actually reading, tells you that a ticket does not guarantee you a seat. The other policies are also located in this fine print.

As for the flight crew: Airlines only bump the passengers to get a crew to another flight out of necessity. Just like any other business, staffing is subject to sudden illness, etc. Sometimes it becomes necessary to fly in another crew in order to not cancel a flight. FAA rules state that x-number of crew must be on every flight. Every time a flight has to be cancelled, there is a rippling effect. It is just not that one flight affected. Think about that the next time your flight gets cancelled. Better a delayed flight than a cancelled flight.

She also said that passengers are not 'randomly' selected for involuntary bumping. They go by next available flights, those having to connect to other flights, date of ticket purchase, and some of the other factors I forgot. Race, as this guy was screaming, nor random selection by drawing numbers or whatever does not even come into play.

Not only was United Security involved, so were police and Federal Air Marshalls. Once they were involved, the crew of this flight was out of it....period.

This man was his own problem. After a bit of research on him, turns out he is not as important as he rates himself. His appointments can be rescheduled; other things with some other passengers cannot. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior. Too many people are totally absorbed with themselves and this guy fits that bill perfectly. Raising your voice and objecting is one thing. Kicking and screaming and having to be forcibly removed is quite another. He was being anything but docile as many men as it took to remove him.

When you are bumped from a flight, not only are you compensated (often handsomely) but get priority seating on the next available flight. I even got upgraded to first class one time! Works for me.

Just goes to prove that you cannot believe what the media feeds you. Remember, they are out for ratings, not reason and truth.

I don't agree with much of what you say. You cannot book multiple flights and then not show up without paying for the flight. Regardless of what the fine print says, you should be guaranteed a seat. You can't change the fine print. The crew should never bump a paying customer who is sitting in his seat. The police were only involved when United got them involved because they did not want to offer enough compensation to bumped passengers. For once, the media got this one correct. The airlines have way too much power, and United really screwed this one up. Being bumped may work for you, but not for most people.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I don't agree with much of what you say. You cannot book multiple flights and then not show up without paying for the flight. Regardless of what the fine print says, you should be guaranteed a seat. You can't change the fine print. The crew should never bump a paying customer who is sitting in his seat. The police were only involved when United got them involved because they did not want to offer enough compensation to bumped passengers. For once, the media got this one correct. The airlines have way too much power, and United really screwed this one up. Being bumped may work for you, but not for most people.

Should.

Of all the words of tongue and pen, should is the one that holds the most unopened possibilities.