[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

Michael, people don’t realize how expensive it is to own an electric vehicle. I think it’ll be a while before an electric car will get 900 to 1,000 miles. Make sure you do your homework very extensively. There’s a lot more expenses to own an electric car than they’re telling you. I’m not an expert on electric cars, but retired from a Auto Plant after 38 yrs. helped! Like I tell everybody, do what you want but don’t cry about it after you spend lots of money on one.Do your homework!

Judging from your post I think you are the one who does not realize the cost of an electric vehicle. In the terms of cost per mile the EV is about half the cost.
https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/fi...fsev/costs.pdf

[phousel]

Originally Posted by noslices1

They need to build an efficient “on board” charging system that charges the battery as you are driving, so there will be unlimited miles, not just 900 and no charging stations needed.

So what - a nuclear reactor?

[flyboyl39]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Any car dealers offering a 400,000 mile warranty on the engine? No? Why? And that is ONE case - to quote you

Any EV companies offering a 150,000 warranty on batteries? OH, year, they are. I don't know if the battery warranty is transferable on Tesla's but regardless of age, they have a 100,000 to 150,000 mile warranty. Since the example you quoted was a USED car, we have no way of knowing what use it had been put to, how it had been abused or anything.

I am fairly certain if I said, I both a USED 5 year old ICE (you pick the brand) and complained about it, you would say, you get what you pay for when buying used.

You need to go back and read my original post. The average age of a vehicle in the US is 12.1 yrs. They have over 150 thousand miles on them. So a 100 to 150k battery warranty doesn’t get it done considering the outrageously high price of the battery pack. So the long term viability in the used marketplace is absolutely suspect, just like I said.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by phousel

So what - a nuclear reactor?

Close but nuclear fusion. It will be coming

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by phousel

So what - a nuclear reactor?

Actually, yes - maybe. They are called "Micro-nukes" and both fission and fusion are being studied - fusion not as much because we still don't know how to make BIG ones - LOL

Anyway, yes, a inexhaustible power source with a small form factor and very HIGH energy density would be perfect for many applications, including EVs. And there is research going on.

Needless to say, it will take a while to prove they are safe enough to allow to be put out in 300 million cars - so, don't expect it soon, probably not in our life time.

Personally I would like to see the same effort put into making capacitors instead of batteries viable for EVs. Capacitors do not generate electricity, they store it. How long and much much are the limitations. However, from a practical point of view, they don't ever wear out. (Some cheap capacitors leak and die.) An advantage to capacitors is they will, theoretically, charge as fast as you can pump the juice into them. Literally, if you had a big enough wire and a big enough generator you could charge a capacitor in seconds. And while there are limitations to the current capacitor (size and weight for cars) those could be overcome - maybe - with enough research.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

You obviously
ignored post #12 and cherry picked my response. But glad you read the article.

No, I responded precisely to your post...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Keefelane66

Bingo,
seems most poster on TOTV have no idea especially this post and make stuff up.
Just because they may not like EV’s no one should.

Or, to contrast... Those who like EVs believe everyone should...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager

And why was that????
Answer: Because 15 months ago there was this little thing called a pandemic (maybe you heard of it....almost 1 million Americans died from in less than 2 years)
Anyways..... that pandemic shut everything down and nobody was driving their cars hence not using gas.
Now imaging how we could get back to that export status again without a virus?
Answer: Americans don't use gas.
And how would they do that?
Answer: By driving vehicles that don't use gas.

We were a net exporter well before the pandemic hit... But nice try...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

OKay, so, you claim there are hidden expenses to owning an EV. Then don't tell us. It seems it would be easy enough to list a few of them if there are a lot.

Then you say you are not an expert, but worked in an Ice factory. Helped! (not sure why that matters or what it means.)

On the other hand, numerous Tesla owners have posted on these constantly repeating threads, and in EVERY case they are more than satisfied at how inexpensive the EVs are to own.

Police departments (obviously hard on cars) are testing Tesla's and in every case are happy with the cost savings and are typically ordering more to replace the ICE vehicles they traditionally used. Schools are buying EV Buses because they are so my more Inexpensive to own and operate. And on and on.

But, "THEY are not telling us the truth"

Hmmm, who to believe.

Less than 1% of school busses are electric (as of the end of 2021). They may be TALKING about it, but it's certainly not a common thing...

Ford is CONSIDERING making a purpose built Police vehicle and some departments are CONSIDERING the new Mustang as pursuit vehicles. Others have used the "Leave" in parking enforcement...

Ford considers "purpose-built electric police vehicles," offers Mach-E electric car for testing

None of this is saying there is any widespread switching to EVs and you're trying to claim...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

I have never worn out gasoline burning vehicle new or used. I just got tired of them and had to have something else. But, I know where the dip stick and valve stems are. Most people don’t keep vehicle long enough to change oil let along ware one out. It be same with electric they trade every 3 years.

My Hyundai Genesis is 11+ years old. My wife traded in her 8 yo Acura MDX...

MOST people are keeping vehicles MUCH longer than in the past...

From the Google Machine: "The IHS Markit study showed that vehicles are being made with better quality nowadays, leading consumers to own them longer. According to IHS, the average length of ownership was a record 79.3 months, or nearly seven years."

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by flyboyl39

You need to go back and read my original post. The average age of a vehicle in the US is 12.1 yrs. They have over 150 thousand miles on them. So a 100 to 150k battery warranty doesn’t get it done considering the outrageously high price of the battery pack. So the long term viability in the used marketplace is absolutely suspect, just like I said.

SO, you think the batteries just die one day? Do the engines just die when they are past their 50,000 warranty? (Do any still offer 50,000?)

They degrade over time, at 150,000 miles they are warranted to still get 70% of their original range. So, instead of 600 miles, they would be down to 420. Or instead of 300 miles, they would be down to 210.

And your "outrageously expensive" description is a personal opinion, obviously, a lot of people think they are worth it. And beyond that, the price of EV batteries has dropped by 89% in the past ten years. There is no reason to believe and no evidence that the decline is over. In fact, historically the price of technology plummets as a mass product is adopted. We are NOT yet at mass production. So, it is reasonable the price of those "outrageously expensive" batteries will be "dirt cheap" in 10 years -

Attached is an image of the bill for an out-of-warranty Telsa Model 3 battery replacement recently, the total (including a few other things that were done) was under $17,000. So, even if the dropping price of batteries only continues at the current rate, it will cost a WHOPPING $1,700. And with the advancement of technology, it is reasonable to assume that the "new battery" in 2032 will have a faster charging rate, and go at least twice as far. (personally, I am betting on 10 times as far.)

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

My Hyundai Genesis is 11+ years old. My wife traded in her 8 yo Acura MDX...

MOST people are keeping vehicles MUCH longer than in the past...

From the Google Machine: "The IHS Markit study showed that vehicles are being made with better quality nowadays, leading consumers to own them longer. According to IHS, the average length of ownership was a record 79.3 months, or nearly seven years."

There are other studies that show cars are not being trade-in for even longer. It used to be 2 or 3 years. I have no problem with people keeping their cars as long as they want to, as long as that car passes emissions testing.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Less than 1% of school busses are electric (as of the end of 2021). They may be TALKING about it, but it's certainly not a common thing...

Ford is CONSIDERING making a purpose built Police vehicle and some departments are CONSIDERING the new Mustang as pursuit vehicles. Others have used the "Leave" in parking enforcement...

Ford considers "purpose-built electric police vehicles," offers Mach-E electric car for testing

None of this is saying there is any widespread switching to EVs and you're trying to claim...

I understand you will not like this, but you confirmed everything I said. I NEVER said there is widespread switching, I said it was starting and those that have actually tested them, are buying more.

If I did say there is WIDE SPREAD acceptance or adopting I will plead I don't remember and should not have and apologize.

[flyboyl39]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

SO, you think the batteries just die one day? Do the engines just die when they are past their 50,000 warranty? (Do any still offer 50,000?)

They degrade over time, at 150,000 miles they are warranted to still get 70% of their original range. So, instead of 600 miles, they would be down to 420. Or instead of 300 miles, they would be down to 210.

And your "outrageously expensive" description is a personal opinion, obviously, a lot of people think they are worth it. And beyond that, the price of EV batteries has dropped by 89% in the past ten years. There is no reason to believe and no evidence that the decline is over. In fact, historically the price of technology plummets as a mass product is adopted. We are NOT yet at mass production. So, it is reasonable the price of those "outrageously expensive" batteries will be "dirt cheap" in 10 years -

Attached is an image of the bill for an out-of-warranty Telsa Model 3 battery replacement recently, the total (including a few other things that were done) was under $17,000. So, even if the dropping price of batteries only continues at the current rate, it will cost a WHOPPING $1,700. And with the advancement of technology, it is reasonable to assume that the "new battery" in 2032 will have a faster charging rate, and go at least twice as far. (personally, I am betting on 10 times as far.)

Wow! Thank you for making my point for me !! A 17000 dollar bill on a car that can’t be over 5 yrs old because they didn’t make them till 2017 !!
Your logic about the battery dropping in price with the shortage of Lithium is also really a stretch. Is everything you are buying right now today dropping in price ??? Also there is so much Lithium being sourced in this country isn’t there? Oh no, it comes from other countries doesn’t it ! Again, I am not anti ev’s at all but my point still stands,,,, the long term viability of them as a major transportation medium is still in doubt . Especially true with the fact that the nations power grid can’t handle the load now .

[Badger 2006]

Originally Posted by Brad-tv

True
But the current administration is spending a fortune on adding charge stations nationwide. Right now I plug in every night ( cheaper rates) and a full charge 320 miles no more gas ever!! Think about any normal driver how many miles do they drive a day maybe 20 to 50 tops? Long range travel 500 miles a day stop once or twice. As it has been discussed many many times on this forum electric cars are not for everyone but when you get to a 900 mile range I think it’ll change many peoples minds especially when gas it’s $10 a gallon soon

By “the current administration” I interpret that to mean “the American taxpayer” which consists of only 43% of American households that paid taxes in 2021. Are we the taxpayers going to receive the income these estimated 500,000 charging stations at a taxpayer cost of $178 Billion will generate?