[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

But we are not totally depended on oil and gas alone. We are not attacking other countries and we are not chopping up reporters we don't like.

The world is totally dependent on gas, crud oil, and products made from fossil fuels. Electric vehicles not going to stop it, reduce it maybe but it will still be in high demand.

We don’t know what governments are doing in other countries.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by mrf0151

Concerned here about safety of charging a car while in my garage. The only garage vehicle fires in The Villages have been electric golf carts. Now we are hearing about fires starting while charging electric cars. NOT SAFE.
Tesla Model S in US catches fire while charging overnight in a garage

Fires are extremely rare. Here is a summary article, basically 60 fires in 8 years, and the article puts the fire count into context, meaning what were they, how do they compare to other sources, etc.

Hope it helps:

Ignore the Hype: Spontaneous Tesla Fires are Incredibly Rare

[bogmonster]

I have a Tesla Model X, love it, but because it is a cool car not for any 'Save the Earth' reasons. I do hate the fact that the kids writing the software have never driven a car and don't realize that turning on the defroster when you are driving 75mph shouldn't be buried 3 menus deep.

Fun facts:

1) It's nice to never have to go to a gas station in the middle of winter Here in Minnesota. My car is 'USUALLY' charge in the morning.

2) The range is about 320 miles per charge in the warm months (June, July, August). Tesla still reports 320 in the middle of winter even though I actually only get 150.

3) I've had many days that I'm glad that the pandemic happened and I have the ability to work remotely any time I want. Forget to plug in the car at night and start the next day with fake 200 miles range. I'm not risky enough to drive 50 miles at -20 degrees and hope i make it home.

4) From 7th grade physics, if you want to make an efficient vehicle, you make it light. My Model X weighs somewhere around 5500 lbs. BTW: most full size trucks are much lighter than that.

5) Charging at night works great, but there aren't any alternative energy sources that generate electricity at night. Solar doesn't work at all at night and the wind usually dies at night.

6) Tesla supercharging is great and free (I have unlimited, lifetime charging). Other vehicles it's going to take a long time to build up their network.

7) When we first get a network built up, price gouging is going to be the norm. When you are down to 50 miles charge and the next charging station is 100 miles away, you have to pay the troll, no matter what the price.

8) It's almost impossible for the current ICE manufacturers to close down their ICE lines. They are legally obligated to have to support their vehicles for a number of years. Watched an interesting youtube video on just shutting down one model of engine a few years ago. Took 5 years or so.

Just my $0.02

Mike

[Blackbird45]

My car is 2 years old; I'm holding out to 2024 and will switch to an EV. I'm up there in age and what I'm hoping for is a level 5 self driving car. I'd like to ride in one before I'm in the back of one on my way to Forest Lawn

[bogmonster]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

My car is 2 years old; I'm holding out to 2024 and will switch to an EV. I'm up there in age and what I'm hoping for is a level 5 self driving car. I'd like to ride in one before I'm in the back of one on my way to Forest Lawn

I paid 10k for that feature in my Model X. Now 2.5 years later I'm hoping i get to see it before I get rid of my car.

[nhtexasrn]

Yes, many can't see the forest for the trees.

[nhtexasrn]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

What people don't stop and think about is...."where does electricity come from?" You have to have power to make power and that comes from (gasp) oil!!! Also what to do with ALL those batteries when you want to throw them out? Not too "green" now. Wouldn't be enough charging stations to serve all who can afford to buy these things. I'll stick with my "gas-driven" car!!

Yes, many can't see the forest for the trees!

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by bogmonster

I have a Tesla Model X, love it, but because it is a cool car not for any 'Save the Earth' reasons. I do hate the fact that the kids writing the software have never driven a car and don't realize that turning on the defroster when you are driving 75mph shouldn't be buried 3 menus deep.

Fun facts:

1) It's nice to never have to go to a gas station in the middle of winter Here in Minnesota. My car is 'USUALLY' charge in the morning.

2) The range is about 320 miles per charge in the warm months (June, July, August). Tesla still reports 320 in the middle of winter even though I actually only get 150.

3) I've had many days that I'm glad that the pandemic happened and I have the ability to work remotely any time I want. Forget to plug in the car at night and start the next day with fake 200 miles range. I'm not risky enough to drive 50 miles at -20 degrees and hope i make it home.

4) From 7th grade physics, if you want to make an efficient vehicle, you make it light. My Model X weighs somewhere around 5500 lbs. BTW: most full size trucks are much lighter than that.

5) Charging at night works great, but there aren't any alternative energy sources that generate electricity at night. Solar doesn't work at all at night and the wind usually dies at night.

6) Tesla supercharging is great and free (I have unlimited, lifetime charging). Other vehicles it's going to take a long time to build up their network.

7) When we first get a network built up, price gouging is going to be the norm. When you are down to 50 miles charge and the next charging station is 100 miles away, you have to pay the troll, no matter what the price.

8) It's almost impossible for the current ICE manufacturers to close down their ICE lines. They are legally obligated to have to support their vehicles for a number of years. Watched an interesting youtube video on just shutting down one model of engine a few years ago. Took 5 years or so.

Just my $0.02

Mike

Thank you for the great summary from an owner.

I feel for some of your issues, and do believe they are the typical early adopter things most new technology has to deal with. I feel like you still like it.

And yes, despite all the rhetoric suggesting there are not going to be any ICE cars tomorrow, and implying EV supporters think they are perfect, the fact is EVs will be phased in over the next few decades. I am predicting 3 decades or 2050 or so for a mostly (90%) adoption.

Thanks again, good post.

[MDLNB]

EVs are priced for the upper middle class to upper class. Working class stiffs cannot afford them, no matter how much they can save in fuel cost. Apartment complexes are not going to be able to maintain charging stations due to space and security. Folks that live in cheap apartments won't be able to afford EVs.
This cannot be a matter of mandating one vs the other. We cannot mandate that folks convert to EV when it's going to disenfranchise a large group of folks. Things that are going to have to be addressed before pushing EVs are:
Initial cost of vehicle
Availability and convenience of charging stations
Time to charge vehicle
Cost to charge vehicle
Cost to replace batteries
Using EVs in cold winter climates and hot summer climates(longevity of a charge)
Recycling batteries (how are the chemicals disposed of)
Materials for constructing batteries (country of origin)
Is the power grid capable of handling the load of future drain of mass EV charging (ie.at night?)
Cost, Cost, Cost, and Cost. Does the future cost savings of fuel outweigh the immediate cost of purchase?

[Blackbird45]

Repeatedly the issue of cost keeps coming up. If you live in TV you might have noticed Corvettes, Farries, Jaguars none going over 30MPH . Motorcycles darned with everything short of a bed and Golfcart so pimped up it's beyond belief. I think in TV a cost of an EV is not a factor.

[EHS210]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

Repeatedly the issue of cost keeps coming up. If you live in TV you might have noticed Corvettes, Farries, Jaguars none going over 30MPH . Motorcycles darned with everything short of a bed and Golfcart so pimped up it's beyond belief. I think in TV a cost of an EV is not a factor.

This could win “Best Post of the Day”

[OhioBuckeye]

Like I said buy one if you want, hope you have a good experience. Just do your own homework & read all the Pro’s & Con’s. For a start they’ll have to put up new power grids to handle millions of charging cars, didn’t think of that huh! Not hear to argue, because it seems like everyone knows, & they’re not on the market, basicly not yet, just Tesla! Have a nice day.������

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

What you say is true but consumers will still be able to vote with their feet. The question to me is will consumers be willing to pay the extra initial costs of EVs?

Time will tell.

That question has been answered, in that consumers are so willing that they are backordered a year.

Bringing out my crystal ball, and based on almost every auto manufacturer jumping into the pool (I assume they checked for water first) I would say prices are going to go DOWN just like every other expensive new technology does as mass production kicks in.

So, the real question is WHEN a consumer wants to jump in, not if. But, that when could easily be 30 years from now. That is up to consumers, not me or anyone else to FORCE them into buying.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by bogmonster

I paid 10k for that feature in my Model X. Now 2.5 years later I'm hoping i get to see it before I get rid of my car.

That is in fact ONE of the reasons I am waiting, but from what I have been seeing/reading I don't think I really need FSD, what it has now seems to be pretty close.

What features of FSD are you waiting for? Hands off?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

Repeatedly the issue of cost keeps coming up. If you live in TV you might have noticed Corvettes, Farries, Jaguars none going over 30MPH . Motorcycles darned with everything short of a bed and Golfcart so pimped up it's beyond belief. I think in TV a cost of an EV is not a factor.

Thank you - LOL. I think Uh Duh, is somewhat appropriate.

But, I will say, Tesla is priced as HIGH as Tesla thinks they can price it and still sell them. They seem to have guessed right (or possibly a little low - they seem to be leaving some money on the table), since they are backordered. It is perfectly normal for a new high end product to be priced high. That is how the company expands to upgrade its mass production.

And I used to find it so frustrating (but now just find it humorous), how so many demand over and over that a product that is 100 years old with international mass manufacturing and massive spinoff support products that are highly refined be compared to a product that is a decade old and still growing, and no where near mass marketing and no real international production yet. Uh Duh, the existing product will almost always win in every comparison. Duh. But, every day that comparison slips a little more in favor of EVs.

And even more so, use cases are evolving. Musk is frequently talking about how once EVs are established and FSD is available he is considering not selling Teslas, but instead starting a Robotaxi company. If it is what he suggests, I for one am ALL IN. The concept, if I understand it correctly is to operate like a time share. Basically you pay a monthly (hourly, daily, annual) rental for using the "taxi". When you want to go someplace, you summons a car using your cell phone and in 5 or 10 minutes it arrives, takes you to your destination, drops you off and goes and charges while waiting for another summons. You will be able to schedule cars to pick you up at specified times, say you have a doctors appointment, or want to go to a show, etc. There will be changing stations in each service area and the number of floating cars will be determine by usage.

I am ALL IN on that. No paying $30K to $50K up front for a vehicle to sit in my garage 90% of the time. No maintenance, no insurance, just summons a car when I want it, and it is maintained, charged and ready whenever I want it.

That idea would also make a HUGE difference in the number of cars required to serve everyone. Which results is a massive reduction in the number of batteries recycled every year, which results in a massive reduction in the rare minerals required to make batteries. I have no idea HOW many cars would be required to do this, but even if it was only a reduction in half, that is 150 million cars we don't have to build and power.

Obviously this will not work for everyone. I lived on acreage about 15 minutes from a tiny town (Live Oak, population about 3,000). I would not have been happy waiting 30 minutes for a car to arrive. So, I would not have been a potential Customer then. But, here in TV, I would jump on the beta of that project!

The next 3 to 5 years are going to see a LOT of EVs enter the market. There are a LOT of issues to be resolved. They will be resolved as they are discovered.