[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

Each of the CDDs and Amenity divisions has capital reserves and can and has used them to fund funding shortfall from unexpected things that have happened. None of the districts are using bonds as a stopgap funding method. The only bonds that have been issued by the CDDs are for expansion - north of 466 the one I know of are in CDD4 and CDD9 when areas were added to their CDD, each a relatively small number of homes.

Again I could be wrong, as it was last year when I attended a Budget Meeting, but I believe there was a discussion or proposal to issue a Bond and believe the Bond (in part) was proposed to fund Golf Course renovations.

Not to beat a dead horse, but a budget that's constrained by CPI increases & sale re-adjustment only, seem unrealistic. I'm sure my opinion is in the minority, but costs increase and CPI never seems to accurately reflect how much more it costs me to live.

People just don't appreciate how good we have it in The Villages, when it comes to how much we pay to maintain the lifestyle. It's a steal.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

This has been an engaging discussion with a lot of good questions. Some of the questions/statements a so full of conjecture, hyperbole, and "what ifs" about the sky falling that they are simply better ignored.

Between this thread and the host of comments made on a pseudo-news website recently, tonight story about CDD8 was a real hoot, I'm going to talk about this topic on my Sunday afternoon broadcast this week.

Fair warning, if you are of the mindset that a cap is need, rising amenity fees are going to cause me to move, or the developer is getting rich by raising my rate, I suggest you take an extra dose of your blood pressure medicine Sunday morning because I'm going to really set you off. Unlike when I was a CDD supervisor and county business now, I have no restrictions on this topic and I will speak my mind and let you know the truth, no matter how painful it may be.

Until Sunday, I need to refocus on getting #152 finish before the broadcast.

Thanks for the warning but I'll be watching the football playoffs Sunday. It's more entertaining when there is offense and defense.
In the morning I'll be preparing philly cheesesteaks and chicken wings before the games.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

While the developer’s family are Billionaires, that fortune is locked up in the real estate and the cash flow it generates. As wealthy families move along in time, that fortune is shared with more people (Schwartz to Morse - now to three sibling then to how many Morse grandchildren).

At some point, they will liquidate the Villages, probably in 2 or 3 generations. At that time, there probably won’t be much undeveloped land left - and they will be selling the commercial real estates and the other assets.
Nothing we need to worry about - probably our kids dont even need to worry about it.

The bold/underlined is the piece that eluded my brain. So they won't be able to just walk away within the next couple of generations and still be wealthy. All I could think of, were the ghost towns around the midwest. Certain people owned certain parts of the towns. And when they either lost interest or ran out of gold to mine, they - walked away. And left whoever stayed, with nothing to do, no one to do it with, no one to sell it to, no one telling them how things should run - and then they walked away too. Banks have gone out of business before - in my lifetime, several times. Not just "been absorbed" by other banks, but closed shop and gone out of business. Mortgage lenders and insurance companies have gone out of business because the people in charge relinquished themselves of the responsibility. Developers have gone out of business because their kids didn't want to run the family business, and they had no one else to give it to.

All of these things have happened - some within my lifetime, some within the past decade, and some long before even our own grandparents were born.

So that's why I was wondering - if there was anything set up to prevent it from happening here. The reason I wondered was because the Schwartz/Morse family owns MOST of the commercial properties, most of the retail and office and even medical space, all of the new construction and razed land reserved for future construction, AND the bank, AND the new-construction real estate company. So it seemed like - wow - what would happen if Johnny Schwartz Morse III told his daddy "Nah - the buck stops with you, dad. I'm gonna be a veterinarian."

It wasn't hyperbole, it wasn't rhetoric, it wasn't a "concern" that would affect me personally, ever. I have no kids so it wouldn't affect them either. It was more of a pondering, based on the knowledge that these things have happened, and do happen, on a smaller scale.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Because it's a fact, not a myth.

I don't know anything about Executive Golf (so my answer isn't related to Amenity Fees), but up until this year, there was only (1) 18 hole golf course located in what most folks consider the "south". Now there are 2. The quality of the 2 courses in the south, don't compare with the other 18 or 27 hole courses.

I get it. When the expansion to the south was going on, the golf business was in the toilet. The Developer surely saw the writing on the wall and cut back on golf course investment ... everyone did. Covid changed the world of golf.

To suggest the addition of 30,000+ homes hasn't affected access to existing golf courses, defies logic.

Actually Covid helped golf as it is an outdoor activity. This could be short term and only time will tell the long term affects. Golf can be very frustrating

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Good and accurate information. This is our tenth winter owning a home in the Villages and our experience getting t times during busy season on the Executives is the same. The last three years or so are not even comparable to 9 or 10 years ago. This winter seems no worse than last year, but things will change when it warms up.

Plenty of good tee times this past week.

Developer needs to think about having a lower price when temperature gets below a certain temperature. Some revenue is a lot better than 0 revenue.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

The Villages golf system is a home grown and unique system. Because of the number of courses, the point system, shared system of Executive & Championship, and the voulme of Tee times it is very complex. About 5 years ago when PWAC was dealing with the contract for it and put it back out to bid, they received no bids except for TSG (designer and provider of the system), the feedback they received from the other bidders was 1) it was too complex for their system, 2) the volume of reservations was more than they could sustain, 3) too many courses, and 4) too many variable for scheduling.

TSG still maintains the system, their contact has an annual CPI adjustment, and they have become more receptive to changes to the software - the first change made was to allow paying of annual trail fees online instead of having to go to a Regional Rec Center.

Met a guy who was part of the group who wrote the program. Interesting conversation. Call iit the "what if system". TOOO many variables. Personally feel system is good. If it ever fails, what a mess.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Just wait five minutes and a new article will be out and a new ranking will be published. Nothing new.

And most rankings are paid for. Airline magazines(years ago) had the highest ranking doctors.

[Goldwingnut]

Originally Posted by rustyp

Thanks for the warning but I'll be watching the football playoffs Sunday. It's more entertaining when there is offense and defense.
In the morning I'll be preparing philly cheesesteaks and chicken wings before the games.

Any team I would have wanted is out of the picture already, so I'll stick with doing the live broadcast. On today's broadcast you can call in and share your opinion live, the phone number will be on the screen, and I'll be more than happy to take your call, listen, and allow you to share your thoughts with everyone watching.

The cheesesteaks do sound tempting...

Gold Wingnut Live #49 1/26/2025 at 3:00 PM - YouTube

[Maker]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

Might want to double check your monthly amenity fee in your water will, I don't think $215-220 is mathematically possible, yet. Above $200, is possible, but few are there, yet.

I beg to differ on the quantity paying more than others.

At our recent neighborhood get together, the amenity fee came up. At least a quarter of people stated they are paying over $210 per month, and a few shouted out numbers over $215.

It became a very ugly topic with angry people wanting to know why they are paying more for identical services. They compared it to a store charging some people different prices for the same item.
A few wondered about filing a class action lawsuit, citing discrimination based upon age because newer homeowners (who paying more) are typically younger than present residents (paying less). And then paying more for their existing house than those buying a new house.

It really doesn't matter what budgeting process that caused different amounts. It's unfair for one house to subsidize another. It should be identical for everyone.

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO FIX THIS

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Maker

I beg to differ on the quantity paying more than others.

At our recent neighborhood get together, the amenity fee came up. At least a quarter of people stated they are paying over $210 per month, and a few shouted out numbers over $215.

It became a very ugly topic with angry people wanting to know why they are paying more for identical services. They compared it to a store charging some people different prices for the same item.
A few wondered about filing a class action lawsuit, citing discrimination based upon age because newer homeowners (who paying more) are typically younger than present residents (paying less). And then paying more for their existing house than those buying a new house.

It really doesn't matter what budgeting process that caused different amounts. It's unfair for one house to subsidize another. It should be identical for everyone.

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO FIX THIS

There is nothing to be fixed so there is nothing to be done.

When you purchased the home you were told what the contractual amenity fee was and in your deed restrictions you read that it would increase every year based on the CPI. That is what you agreed to and that is what was done.

In what year did they purchase? When I looked back at the contractual amenity fee for the past several years and the maximum CPI that would have been used for adjustments, the highest number I could come up with was $207. I'm not sure that's even possible but I couldn't find a way to get higher than that. With the year they purchased I can find the contractual amenity fee at the time of the sale and if you provide the neighborhood I may be able to determine the month the rate is increased.

A simple image of a utility bill showing an amenity fee above $210 would go a long way too.

EDIT: It looks like a $210 or $215 bill might be possible. More info below.

[kansasr]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

There is nothing to be fixed so there is nothing to be done.

When you purchased the home you were told what the contractual amenity fee was and in your deed restrictions you read that it would increase every year based on the CPI. That is what you agreed to and that is what was done.

In what year did they purchase? When I looked back at the contractual amenity fee for the past several years and the maximum CPI that would have been used for adjustments, the highest number I could come up with was $207. I'm not sure that's even possible but I couldn't find a way to get higher than that. With the year they purchased I can find the contractual amenity fee at the time of the sale and if you provide the neighborhood I may be able to determine the month the rate is increased.

A simple image of a utility bill showing an amenity fee above $210 would go a long way too.

Oh, look at you, dealing in facts, when most people would rather get their information from their barber's cousins's next door neighbor.....

[Eagle06]

Great explanation Don. You always have the information but there will always people who can't/won't understand. People need to be realistic, everything goes up and if you want to keep the amenities we enjoy, ALL of us need to fund them. If you don't understand how amenity fees differ in your neighborhood, head up to the District Office, they explained it to me very simply, the Amenity Fees vary widely in TV due to the "Beginning Amenity Fee" is tied to purchase date of your property. The original purchase date of our home was Dec 2020. We purchased the home in May 2022, and at that time I believe the Amenity Fee was $179 (and change), in December 2022, our Amenity Fee increased to $193.79. In December of 2023, our Amenity Fee increased to $200.89 and in December 2024 our Amenity Fee increased to $205.97. So we are paying more than some of our neighbors who have owned their homes since 2020 because of our purchase date in 2022. Still a good deal to us.

[Maker]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

There is nothing to be fixed so there is nothing to be done.

When you purchased the home you were told what the contractual amenity fee was and in your deed restrictions you read that it would increase every year based on the CPI. That is what you agreed to and that is what was done.

In what year did they purchase? When I looked back at the contractual amenity fee for the past several years and the maximum CPI that would have been used for adjustments, the highest number I could come up with was $207. I'm not sure that's even possible but I couldn't find a way to get higher than that. With the year they purchased I can find the contractual amenity fee at the time of the sale and if you provide the neighborhood I may be able to determine the month the rate is increased.

A simple image of a utility bill showing an amenity fee above $210 would go a long way too.

Never infer that I am posting incorrect information. Personal attacks are prohibited here.
To prove it, here is a screen capture from a Jan 2025 bill.
Please notice the amenity fee is above $210

[Bill14564]

The prevailing rates for the last few years were $179 in 2022 then $189, $195, and now $199 for 2025.

The amenity fee increases on a home in the month it was put on the market the very first time. Particularly for resales, this is not the month you purchased, it is the month it was put on the market. I purchased in May but my fee adjusts in February.

When you purchase a home the amenity fee is set to the prevailing rate as listed above. If you purchased in 2022 your initial amenity fee was $179.

If you purchased AFTER the month your fee increases then you saw your first increase in 2023 and you should be paying between $189 and $196 now.

However, if you purchased BEFORE the month your fee increases AND IF the fee increases even on recent sales then you could be paying between $202 and $211 now. I don't know if this actually happens but it would simplify the application of the increase and it would explain claims of $210 amenity fees so perhaps it does happen.

I don't have the prevailing rate for 2021 to know what the numbers would be for a purchase in that year. Purchasing in 2023 or 2024 would not have resulted in a $215 fee today.

Still, the fact remains that the prevailing rate, adjustment month, and adjustment calculations were available at the time of purchase.

[Maker]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

The prevailing rates for the last few years etc

I don't care what magic formulas are used to arrive at different rates for the same amenities. That is how it is done UNFAIRLY. That process is the cause.

Nobody gets anything extra for paying more.
Nobody gets anything removed for paying less.