[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by villager7591

Just a note-often, an "on your left" statement sometimes startles the walkers and they turn into the path of the cyclist. Sp please do not necessarily judge the cyclist negatively. They do not want to run into walkers.

Correct. I stopped calling out warnings for this very reason.

[kkimball]

There has been a lot of great conversation in this thread. I've learned a few things myself, including that there is an actual Florida statute requiring calling out when passing.

I appreciate all the work others have done to put together good questions and those who have taken the time to post great follow-ups.

Here are the answers to the additional questions asked:

Q: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?
A: I think few are irritated by pedestrians, and I hope that none would intentionally endanger them. However, cyclists don't like to slow down once they gain momentum. That can lead to them passing pedestrians at potentially unsafe speeds, just as motorists often pass cyclists.

Q: Why do cyclists get mad when at fault in a traffic situation?
A: My best guess is because they don't realize that they are wrong. Most of us are from away, and there is a learning curve to traffic rules and patterns in The villages. Hopefully, the cyclist takes the time to reflect, realize their mistake, and pass that knowledge on to others. The two local cycling groups do their best to educate riders, but there is much to learn.

Q: Why does the cyclist decide when it's safe for me to pass?
A: They don't. As the passing vehicle, you determine when it's safe to pass.

Please let me know if I missed your question.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'll say that I had a particularly positive experience today, when I was driving my golf cart and there was a guy on a bicycle ahead of me on an MMP.

The path had some curves to it, leading to a stop sign near the entryway of one of the buildings near the Morse circle on Camino Real.

This was pretty obviously a "cyclist" rather than a "bicyclist" (who knew these people would get all elitist about the term - only here in the Villages, hah!).

He clearly knew what he was doing so I just stayed behind him, keeping a few carts' distance so as not to tailgate (I hate when people do that to me, so I make it my business not to do that to others). He sped up near this curve, slowed down near that curve, and that's when I was able to see there was some empty pavement up ahead with no one coming our way. So that's when I passed him. Gave him an upnod, he returned the upnod, and we went our merry ways, with me in front going 20mph and him behind going around 15mph (it was a pretty healthy pace).

It was basically - the perfect experience of golf cart driver wanting to pass a bicycle rider, where neither were being jerks about it to each other. Mutual respect of our chosen vehicles, mutual respect of civil interaction between humans.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I'll say that I had a particularly positive experience today, when I was driving my golf cart and there was a guy on a bicycle ahead of me on an MMP.

The path had some curves to it, leading to a stop sign near the entryway of one of the buildings near the Morse circle on Camino Real.

This was pretty obviously a "cyclist" rather than a "bicyclist" (who knew these people would get all elitist about the term - only here in the Villages, hah!).

He clearly knew what he was doing so I just stayed behind him, keeping a few carts' distance so as not to tailgate (I hate when people do that to me, so I make it my business not to do that to others). He sped up near this curve, slowed down near that curve, and that's when I was able to see there was some empty pavement up ahead with no one coming our way. So that's when I passed him. Gave him an upnod, he returned the upnod, and we went our merry ways, with me in front going 20mph and him behind going around 15mph (it was a pretty healthy pace).

It was basically - the perfect experience of golf cart driver wanting to pass a bicycle rider, where neither were being jerks about it to each other. Mutual respect of our chosen vehicles, mutual respect of civil interaction between humans.

Isn't it amazing how nicely things work when we apply concepts like patience and mutual respect?

[Bruce3055]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

I summed it up 99 posts before yours (post 12). I can share my ignore list with you which targets the posters who are determined to get the last word in, talk to themselves, and spread their own brand of negativity.

It spares me the time of seeing uneducated, unreasonable and simply ignorant posts appearing in a thread. It's a tremendous time saver for someone like myself who does not associate with ignorance in real life.

Yes, please share swith me your list via private message and advise how I may set u an ignore list for myself.

Thanks

[Bruce3055]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager

I'm sure no one EVER has....because they don't!!!!

I think it's more important to consider if a bicycle (or cart) is creating an unsafe condition by rolling through a stop sign. If they are safe, rolling through the stop sign is probably appreciated by most. Can you imagine the back ups that would occur if everyone stopped even though they could safely roll through the gate crossing.

Cart drivers would back up as they waited for clear openings

Bike riders could create enormous back ups as they got off their bikes to walk thru intersections as not all are fast enough to safely cross from a completes stop otherwise.

[clekr]

Took my bike out this morning and headed toward Brownwood. Stopped for a rest on the shaded bench in front of the sales office. This put me within 80 feet of two stop signs. During the 20 minutes I stayed I observed one bike and 35-50 cars/carts proceed through. The bike did not even slow for the sign. Of the cars/carts only two stopped. One seemed to be because of a car in the left lane; he was in the right lane. But then, he made a left turn from the right lane. Would seem bikes are no worse than others on this.

[villager7591]

Here is the Florida statute to which you refer. It calls out 'sidewalks' which an MMP or the walking/biking-only trails may or may not be:
A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by kkimball

There has been a lot of great conversation in this thread. I've learned a few things myself, including that there is an actual Florida statute requiring calling out when passing.

I appreciate all the work others have done to put together good questions and those who have taken the time to post great follow-ups.

Here are the answers to the additional questions asked:

Q: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?
A: I think few are irritated by pedestrians, and I hope that none would intentionally endanger them. However, cyclists don't like to slow down once they gain momentum. That can lead to them passing pedestrians at potentially unsafe speeds, just as motorists often pass cyclists.

Q: Why do cyclists get mad when at fault in a traffic situation?
A: My best guess is because they don't realize that they are wrong. Most of us are from away, and there is a learning curve to traffic rules and patterns in The villages. Hopefully, the cyclist takes the time to reflect, realize their mistake, and pass that knowledge on to others. The two local cycling groups do their best to educate riders, but there is much to learn.

Q: Why does the cyclist decide when it's safe for me to pass?
A: They don't. As the passing vehicle, you determine when it's safe to pass.

Please let me know if I missed your question.

Thank you, thank you, thank you

That last Q/A was my ONLY point in this thread, and as the OP and an avid cyclist, I'm glad you agree

Everyone should be aware of the safety of others, on the roads and MMPs, and that goes for cars, carts, cycles, and pedestrians. However, no one gets to dictate actions to another. I'll drive my vehicles, and others can drive theirs, but I retain the sole right to determine when it's safe to pass

And for that opinion, which btw is 100% correct, I was called ignorant and uneducated. Sorry, as the OP I guess you're in that same club in that person's opinion.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by kkimball

There has been a lot of great conversation in this thread. I've learned a few things myself, including that there is an actual Florida statute requiring calling out when passing.

I appreciate all the work others have done to put together good questions and those who have taken the time to post great follow-ups.

Here are the answers to the additional questions asked:

Q: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?
A: I think few are irritated by pedestrians, and I hope that none would intentionally endanger them. However, cyclists don't like to slow down once they gain momentum. That can lead to them passing pedestrians at potentially unsafe speeds, just as motorists often pass cyclists.

Q: Why do cyclists get mad when at fault in a traffic situation?
A: My best guess is because they don't realize that they are wrong. Most of us are from away, and there is a learning curve to traffic rules and patterns in The villages. Hopefully, the cyclist takes the time to reflect, realize their mistake, and pass that knowledge on to others. The two local cycling groups do their best to educate riders, but there is much to learn.

Q: Why does the cyclist decide when it's safe for me to pass?
A: They don't. As the passing vehicle, you determine when it's safe to pass.

Please let me know if I missed your question.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Thank you, thank you, thank you

That last Q/A was my ONLY point in this thread, and as the OP and an avid cyclist, I'm glad you agree

Everyone should be aware of the safety of others, on the roads and MMPs, and that goes for cars, carts, cycles, and pedestrians. However, no one gets to dictate actions to another. I'll drive my vehicles, and others can drive theirs, but I retain the sole right to determine when it's safe to pass

And for that opinion, which btw is 100% correct, I was called ignorant and uneducated. Sorry, as the OP I guess you're in that same club in that person's opinion.

When I rode, there were definitely times I did not want the car driver behind me to be tempted to try to squeeze between me and the double yellow line. In those cases I would take the middle of the lane to communicate to the car that it's not safe yet.

My concern was typically that the driver would try to squeeze, unable to see what was coming around a blind curve. If an oncoming car came around that curve over the yellow line, or close to it, there was not going to be a safe amount of room for two cars and me. And in that situation, there would likely be one loser, and that would be me.

Basically, there is never a time when it's safe for a car to attempt to squeeze between the lane marker and the bike, and that is why the law requires a 3 foot margin between the car and the bike. But not every car will respect that.

If the passing car can see there is room enough to get by, going over the lane marker, then by all means do so. It won't matter where the bike is in that situation.

Does that make sense?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Laker14

When I rode, there were definitely times I did not want the car driver behind me to be tempted to try to squeeze between me and the double yellow line. In those cases I would take the middle of the lane to communicate to the car that it's not safe yet.

My concern was typically that the driver would try to squeeze, unable to see what was coming around a blind curve. If an oncoming car came around that curve over the yellow line, or close to it, there was not going to be a safe amount of room for two cars and me. And in that situation, there would likely be one loser, and that would be me.

Basically, there is never a time when it's safe for a car to attempt to squeeze between the lane marker and the bike, and that is why the law requires a 3 foot margin between the car and the bike. But not every car will respect that.

If the passing car can see there is room enough to get by, going over the lane marker, then by all means do so. It won't matter where the bike is in that situation.

Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense as you've described it and I agree for the most part.
Apparently you are talking about a roadway, but I still disagree (and so does the OP) that it is up to you to decide for another driver when it is safe. It is his responsibility to operate his vehicle safely, not yours. I understand that a cyclist is more vulnerable and therefore might want to control the situation, but he is not a dictator and does not have any authority to dictate to others. As much as a person might want to, none of us can control the actions of another. Again, I'll use the analogy---when you are driving a car and come upon a "driver" going 30 in a 55 zone, do you eagerly await his permission to decide for you when it is safe to pass, or do you decide for yourself? And what would you think of that slow driver moving into a position to block you from passing when you had the chance? (I realize cycles are slightly different given the width of the road and the 3 foot rule). But what if that slow driver moved 6 feet into the oncoming lane to block you. (Of course, most of those slugs simply speed up from 30 to 70 when you go to pass) Remember, most of my posts were directed at responding to a post that claimed slow cyclists were blocking him from passing on a MMP for 2 miles, which (if true) would be ridiculous.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bruce3055

I think it's more important to consider if a bicycle (or cart) is creating an unsafe condition by rolling through a stop sign. If they are safe, rolling through the stop sign is probably appreciated by most. Can you imagine the back ups that would occur if everyone stopped even though they could safely roll through the gate crossing.

Cart drivers would back up as they waited for clear openings

Bike riders could create enormous back ups as they got off their bikes to walk thru intersections as not all are fast enough to safely cross from a completes stop otherwise.

Honestly, the only time I "roll through" a stop sign on my bike is if I'm riding uphill. The only alternative is to stop, get off my bike, and block traffic while I walk it across the street. Where I live, there's a stop sign that's at the bottom of an incline, and is a right turn onto another incline. So I can get momentum on the way to the stop sign and make it up that other road without having to walk it the entire way to the stop sign after that. There's plenty of clearance for me to check to my left and make sure no one is coming.

It's technically illegal, and if a police officer were to pull me over on my bicycle to give me a ticket I'd accept it (and probably fight it, but I'd still not give the officer any bunk - he's just doing his job).

I am 100% in favor of the roll-through bicycle laws they have in other states. But here in Florida, we don't have those laws. So if you're going to do that, you need to accept that you're breaking the law - even though what you're doing is safer for EVERYONE involved.