[aln]

Pturner.........I AGREE, AGREE agree.

I've been looking at the POPS concert in Sanford & Jersey Boys in Tampa.
Cheap seats are about $125 with "orchestra" seating at $250.

I don't think TV will get a booking in small facilities like the Savannah or Church on the Square. And to build a facility that would attract such shows would be COSTLY and probably couldn't even come close to filling it up.

Better seating at the Savannah is the way to go.

[K9-Lovers]

I agree that the PALMS group has a narrow focus. The seating in Church on the Square could be elevated along with other renovations and additions for needed dressing rooms, etc. Having experience with booking national talent, I know that those entertainers will want to appear in larger markets. They will bypass The Villages for dates in Orlando, Tampa, etc. The bigger the venue, the more income for them, because they usually ask for a percentage. And yes, the riders alone can be very expensive to fulfill.

Unless the PALMS group has already identified a large donor, or already has the municipal goverments of the three counties on board with a multi-year substantial pledge, the large facility they are hoping to build has little hope of becoming financially successful.

We used to live in a very large MSA, and had a volunteer group attempting to create PAC similar to what the PALMS group is proposing. After failing to garner the funding, they opted for a smaller facility, which then became quite successful. Unfortunately, their reply to Mr. Morse did not leave any doors open for further discussion.

[batman911]

Whatever is built should include large locker rooms and shower areas. Then, if it fails, it can be converted into the gym TV deserves.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

snip
Finally, I wish someone would seriously explore the possibility of using a shuttle bus system for all PAC productions as well as for other town square activities. I can't understand how this would be anything but successful and cost effective. I would bet my socks that attendance at PAC productions would be appreciably better if patrons knew they would be dropped off from where they parked their car or cart at the door. How many TV folks either can't stand the traffic hassle or just don't want to walk a long distance. For the TV community, parking and traffic will be a problem for any PAC, no matter where it is located.

Please folks, please PALMS, lets think more creatively and positively!

last spring i asked the cic group to look into using the trolleys to transport residents to and from the reg'l rec and the town squares for scheduled and special events [parking/crossing streets/walking in a town square is crazy on an event day or when certain entertainers perform]. what makes more sense than using those vehicle on circuit-routes? well, i got a phone call that the org would look into the possibility because it seemed like a good idea...i guess that man and i are the only ones who thought that way! glad to read that you do, too!

[swrinfla]

This is going to be an on-going, long-winded discussion.

My gut opposes Church on the Square because parking can be a nightmare there, especially when there's a special event in the Square. Whether the building can be renovated to accommodate 1,500 or more people is, in my mind, somewhat moot.

Mr. Morse's offer was exceedingly generous, and follows the occasional pattern of the family. PALMS' response may have been a tad more "Thanks, but No Thanks" in tone than I would have suggested, but I must admit to being in general agreement.

I am frankly very much hopeful that we'll end up with a strictly purpose-built top-of-the-line theatre, with easy access and good parking, comfortable seating, an orchestra pit, superior lighting system, dressing rooms - indeed, an acknowledged first class venue. Despite all the best efforts of the folks at PALMS, I am sorry to say that I do not expect to see it in my lifetime.

Major reason: too much money to build, equip and maintain over the long haul! Now, should I ever win the Power Ball, maybe I could help out!

SWR

[golf2140]

Originally Posted by swrinfla

This is going to be an on-going, long-winded discussion.

My gut opposes Church on the Square because parking can be a nightmare there, especially when there's a special event in the Square. Whether the building can be renovated to accommodate 1,500 or more people is, in my mind, somewhat moot.

Mr. Morse's offer was exceedingly generous, and follows the occasional pattern of the family. PALMS' response may have been a tad more "Thanks, but No Thanks" in tone than I would have suggested, but I must admit to being in general agreement.

I am frankly very much hopeful that we'll end up with a strictly purpose-built top-of-the-line theatre, with easy access and good parking, comfortable seating, an orchestra pit, superior lighting system, dressing rooms - indeed, an acknowledged first class venue. Despite all the best efforts of the folks at PALMS, I am sorry to say that I do not expect to see it in my lifetime.

Major reason: too much money to build, equip and maintain over the long haul! Now, should I ever win the Power Ball, maybe I could help out!

SWR

Amen

[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

last spring i asked the cic group to look into using the trolleys to transport residents to and from the reg'l rec and the town squares for scheduled and special events [parking/crossing streets/walking in a town square is crazy on an event day or when certain entertainers perform]. what makes more sense than using those vehicle on circuit-routes? well, i got a phone call that the org would look into the possibility because it seemed like a good idea...i guess that man and i are the only ones who thought that way! glad to read that you do, too!

OK lets keep this thought going, since later posters keep mentioning the traffic/parking curse. Sure the trolleys could be used, but remember, they are big vehicles, slow for entry and exit. I was thinking of the 'stretch' golf carts, small tractors with trailing cars, open on both sides and low to the ground. They are all over Disney World and move thousands of folks quickly and quietly. I believe the investment in these efficient vehicles would be cost effective if they became nightly fixtures around the town squares.

Again, consider moving people quickly and quietly to and from their cars, in safely, covered from our sudden showers and delivered to the door of their desired town square destination. I honestly cannot think of any better new idea for a needed stimulus of town square businesses and a solution for perhaps the biggest hurdle in planning for a successful new PAC.

If I were the PALMS spokesman, I'd go hat in hand to Mr. Morse, apologize for the 'kiss off' response to his suggested donations, and ask for just two more things, a little more help to remodel and expand the Church, and a shuttle cart system to make the PAC and the town squares more popular and profitable.

[zcaveman]

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

OK lets keep this thought going, since later posters keep mentioning the traffic/parking curse. Sure the trolleys could be used, but remember, they are big vehicles, slow for entry and exit. I was thinking of the 'stretch' golf carts, small tractors with trailing cars, open on both sides and low to the ground. They are all over Disney World and move thousands of folks quickly and quietly. I believe the investment in these efficient vehicles would be cost effective if they became nightly fixtures around the town squares.

Again, consider moving people quickly and quietly to and from their cars, in safely, covered from our sudden showers and delivered to the door of their desired town square destination. I honestly cannot think of any better new idea for a needed stimulus of town square businesses and a solution for perhaps the biggest hurdle in planning for a successful new PAC.

If I were the PALMS spokesman, I'd go hat in hand to Mr. Morse, apologize for the 'kiss off' response to his suggested donations, and ask for just two more things, a little more help to remodel and expand the Church, and a shuttle cart system to make the PAC and the town squares more popular and profitable.

But where are people going to park their cars and carts to take these shuttles if there is no parking available to begin with? If there is a day time show the parking in La Grande plaza will be restricted to those shoppers at the stores in the La Grande plaza.

If it is a weekend show the churches are using their parking lots.

I doubt if Rolling Acres stores will let people park in their parking lot.

[njbchbum]

z -
my thought for using the trolley was to have it pick people up at the regional rec center where there is lots of room for parking - especially in the evening - and then take folks to the town square - it would deliver them to off-loading areas such as the transportation bldgs at SS and LSL. a simple loop schedule would enable folks to come and go via a very simple schedule.

now, the stretch cart that ijusluvit has in mind might not have the same capability as the trolley, but they could probably run as a complement to the trolley system...how about it i - what were your thoughts?

[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by zcaveman

But where are people going to park their cars and carts to take these shuttles if there is no parking available to begin with? If there is a day time show the parking in La Grande plaza will be restricted to those shoppers at the stores in the La Grande plaza.

If it is a weekend show the churches are using their parking lots.

I doubt if Rolling Acres stores will let people park in their parking lot.

With a shuttle system, the existing parking areas near Spanish Springs are in my opinion sufficient to accommodate patrons at all PAC shows and daytime special events. I also think you should not dismiss the idea that agreements and arrangements could be worked out with businesses and churches to use designated areas at specific times. If TV administration asks for it, it WILL be done. In La Grande Plaza and Rolling Acres PAC patrons will not park up near stores if the shuttles travel only through the remote areas in the lots. The bigger, faster trolleys can indeed shuttle to rec centers. If everything started to work, SS businesses were doing better, and parking was still a little tight, I predict Mr. Morse would approve paving over some nearby unused space.
With creative thinking I just think this parking thing is a non-issue.

[bigalibaba]

Dear Friend of Performing Arts:



For five years, a group of citizens has worked diligently to build a first-rate performing arts center here. We’d like to enjoy world-class talent such as Michael Buble, Norah Jones and Tony Bennett locally instead of traveling to Orlando, Tampa and Gainesville.



Now, that dream may be within our grasp if we can focus the goodwill and energies of various interested parties to create a performing arts center that has adequate size, facilities and convenient access.



As the first board president of the newly-renamed Performing Arts of Lake, Marion & Sumter, (PALMS) I am committed to achieving the goal for which so many volunteers have worked with such dedication.



I am applying my experience as a former manager for such firms as Procter & Gamble and as a longtime supporter of the arts. As president of the Columbus (MS) Arts Council for five years, I helped to create one of the best arts facilities in that region. The other board members, with a broad array of talents, are equally enthusiastic. More details will be announced in our upcoming newsletter.



As for the current issue regarding the developer’s proposal to create a theater for entertainment in The Villages, our response is: first, we applaud him for recognizing the residents’ overwhelming support for a new performing arts venue. This was the number one suggested improvement in the Villages’ own surveys in the past two years and drew 96 percent support from the PALMS online survey in July 2010.



Unfortunately, the plan to substantially rebuild the Church on the Square into a theater would create a facility that is uneconomical for attracting top entertainers, unappealing to performers and uncomfortable for the audience. The specific issues include:



· With only 1,050 seats, it is too small to present the top national acts. The first-rank centers in Florida range from 1,736 seats (Sarasota) to 1,750 (Gainesville) to 2,518 (Orlando) in order to get larger audiences and thus achieve reasonable prices. The plan has no “star” dressing rooms.



· The design has many deficiencies for performers: It only has limited chorus dressing rooms and storage space, and lacks other backstage facilities. In contrast, a true performing arts center has a “black box” theater for innovative works, rehearsal spaces, practice rooms, meeting facilities and adequate office space.



· There are many design shortcomings for the audience: The closest 172 seats to the stage are folding chairs. The remainder of the main floor has such a slight slope that many patrons would have obstructed views. One-third of the seats (336) are in the balcony, which is only accessed by one small elevator and stairs. This is not appropriate for mature audiences. There are too few restrooms to permit an intermission at shows.



However, there is a better way to establish a facility that would bring first-rank entertainers to the area of Lake, Marion and Sumter counties, stimulate economic growth, and make the region the envy of all other retirement areas in the nation.



We should build a new performing arts center in an appropriate area, with 1,500-2,000 seats, plus adequate access and parking. By showcasing big-name entertainers AND local amateur and professional talent, it would create a jewel for the regional performing arts community. Financed by grants, donations, ticket sales and concession fees, it would NOT involve any local taxes or amenity fees.



Now more than ever, we are committed to attaining our vision and mission.



With our experience and enthusiasm, PALMS is ready to work collaboratively with the developer and all interested parties to create a performing arts center that will be a joy to attend and a source of pride for us all.



Bob Rutkowski, President

Performing Arts of Lake, Marion & Sumter, Inc.(PALMS)

[kwachowski]

Mark Morse definitely is getting something for donating the Church and the land. Residents north of 466 are to be stuck paying for the renovations which is not fair since it will be used by the entire Villages and the Tri-County area. I am not in favor of this idea.

[njbchbum]

bigalibaba, you wrote -

"We should build a new performing arts center in an appropriate area, with 1,500-2,000 seats, plus adequate access and parking. By showcasing big-name entertainers AND local amateur and professional talent, it would create a jewel for the regional performing arts community. Financed by grants, donations, ticket sales and concession fees, it would NOT involve any local taxes or amenity fees."

Grants, donations, ticket sales and concession fees are not permanent revenue sources; and are dependent on personal desires. Without a permanent, on-going source of funding needed to operate this facility, you CANNOT state that it will "NOT involve any local taxes or amenity fees."

While your volunteerism and that of your committee is admirable, I suggest that such a venture is best left to professionals of the entertainment industry. They already operate facilities that are close enough to be reached by personal car or an organized bus trip. Has your committee sought out the opinions re the success of your venue from the operators of the other area venues? The addition of another venue in between existing venues cannot guarantee that a performer will want to appear at the new venue because of the negative cash impact it could possibly have on the "gate" of all the area venues - has your committee looked into that aspect yet?

Now more than ever, I suggest that you and your committee have more to overcome than you ever thought you did. Perhaps you will consider developing a facility that is appropriate for the size of a villages audience rather than a regional audience.

[scrapple]

Originally Posted by kwachowski

Mark Morse definitely is getting something for donating the Church and the land. Residents north of 466 are to be stuck paying for the renovations which is not fair since it will be used by the entire Villages and the Tri-County area.

There are a couple pieces to the puzzle that I don't understand. I've only been here for a month, so I don't know many of the players.
1. Mr. Morse owns the land and building for The Church, right? He proposes donating it to... who? Surely he gets something in return for the donation? A man doesn't become a bazillionare by giving away valuable land and buildings

2. Who would pay for any rennovations? Why not the people south of 466?

[REDCART]

Some ask, "what could Morse gain from his donation of Church in the Square?" For starters, he has a vested interest in keeping a PAC within TV, which has value in future home sales promotions. It's also another attraction to bring business to SS. You can't continue to collect rent from restaurants who have no business. (The two-hour happy hour helps but not as much as a PAC would help.) There probably also tax savings from his donation? After all, he's a businessman.