[birdiebill]

Originally Posted by Boilerman

What is the average bond value and annual payments for a $300k home?

The bond amount and the payment can be determined by looking at the amortization table at the CDD website. Find the district and the unit number for the house location. All homes in the same unit have the same bond amount regardless of the price of the home or the lot. For example, all designer homes in district 10, unit 193 which is in Osceola Hills have the same bond amount and payments regardless of lot size and home cost. Units 192 and 194 are also in Osceola Hills but have a different amount from unit 193. Villas are different.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Challenger

If the statement that an identical home with a remaining bond balance would sell for the same price as one without a similar lien is correct, TV would be unique in the world of real estate valuations and sales. To assume the existing lien(bond) would mean that you were ,in fact, paying a higher price- not debatable. Can anyone show statistical proof (not opinion) that such an anomaly exists?

Agree. A ToTV conversation myth.

[retiredguy123]

In my opinion, if you are going to stay in the house for about 5 or more years, and you can afford to, it makes financial sense to pay off the bond. If you are going to sell the house, it makes more sense to keep the bond. That way, the buyer can make the decision to keep the bond or to pay it off. Logically, giving the buyer more options should make the house easier to sell. Although, in today's world, things are not always logical.

[LitespeedRider]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Agree. A ToTV conversation myth.

For some odd reason, when looking at properties sellers try to make some crazy differential between the two. "Oh, that is not the price of the property, that is the price of the BOND".

Um, no. You dont get the one with out the other. So, anyone with conscious thought would add them together in the "total price".

It would be analogous to a car sales person not including tires/wheels "with" the car - rather making them a separate line item.

Attn: Real Estate Professionals who try to make it seem like they are not part of the cost of a property...bond fee's are.

[twoplanekid]

When the appraisal was prepared on our TV house, new build by Lake-Sumter Appraisals to provide to our lending institution, the bond was not included in that appraisal. It is my understanding that the TV bond is not included in any TV house appraisal and thus does make TV unique in that respect. The asking price may or may not reflect a bond balance.

The developer lists the prices of all new houses on their web site without including the bond costs.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

When the appraisal was prepared on our TV house, new build by a Florida firm to provide to our lending institution, the bond was not included in that appraisal. It is my understanding that the TV bond is not included in any TV house appraisal and thus does make TV unique in that respect. The asking price may or may not reflect a bond balance.

The developer lists the prices of all new houses on their web site without including the bond costs.

If this this is the case they are violating all the principals of appraisal regulating bodies. The bond is part of total consideration for the house. Should also be included in determining the total consideration for comps. This premise is very strange. I suspect real estate professionals love it as it mis states the purchase price so that bond homes seem to be a better buy and therefore easier to sell. Someone !statistical evidence ---please.

[Packer Fan]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Not true. The interest portion of your bond payment is not deductible. It is a non-ad valorem payment, not based on the specific value of your house, not the same as mortgage interest, and it is not deductible. It is also why the county provides a separate accounting on your tax bill for ad valorem and non-ad valorem payments. The bond interest is included in the non-ad valorem section of the tax bill. This is the IRS and the TurboTax interpretation of the Federal tax laws. But, you can deduct anything you want as long as you don't get audited.

You are partially correct - However what everyone misses here is that it IS deductible if your property is a rental. There is some dispute if you take this as depreciation or as a yearly expense even then.

[Packer Fan]

Originally Posted by LitespeedRider

For some odd reason, when looking at properties sellers try to make some crazy differential between the two. "Oh, that is not the price of the property, that is the price of the BOND".

Um, no. You dont get the one with out the other. So, anyone with conscious thought would add them together in the "total price".

It would be analogous to a car sales person not including tires/wheels "with" the car - rather making them a separate line item.

Attn: Real Estate Professionals who try to make it seem like they are not part of the cost of a property...bond fee's are.

When I am looking at properties to buy in the Villages (I am starting to look for another property to rent), I always look at the bond balance and add it to the price. That is how I compare. Only people who don't understand the bond would not consider it. This is YUGE dollars we are talking about here, and it is at a much higher interest rate then a typical mortgage.

As a separate issue - these must be the same people who do not understand the cost of moving and move to the villages and move 3 times after they are here- that is EXPENSIVE!!! yikes.

[Jim 9922]

Originally Posted by Packer Fan

When I am looking at properties to buy in the Villages (I am starting to look for another property to rent), I always look at the bond balance and add it to the price. That is how I compare. Only people who don't understand the bond would not consider it. This is YUGE dollars we are talking about here, and it is at a much higher interest rate then a typical mortgage.

As a separate issue - these must be the same people who do not understand the cost of moving and move to the villages and move 3 times after they are here- that is EXPENSIVE!!! yikes.

Correct on both points. I guess fools and their money are easily parted!

[Bogie Shooter]

Who you callin a fool?

[Boilerman]

Originally Posted by birdiebill

Using the amortization table for District 10, Unit 193, the bond payment is a little over $1700 per year for 30 years. For 2017 that breaks out at $334.98 for principal, $1267.66 for interest and $109.58 for administration cost. Just like a mortgage, the interest paid way exceeds the principal in the first nearly 20 years of the bond payments.

Over the thirty years a person would pay $22,534.28 for principal, $25,520.36 for interest, and $3,285.79 for administration cost for a total of $51,340.52.

Those are the numbers to consider whether to pay off the bond taking into consideration the interest is not tax deductible. If a person wants to deduct the interest, it might be better to take out a home equity loan and pay it off over time if the house is a "forever" home. A paid off bond in a new area will not be recouped if a person sells the house in the first few years.

Thanks. Since I don't own a home yet there, I was looking for a typical annual cost for a bond in my price range. Sometimes you see the bond balance listed in a for-sale listing but I've never seen the annual bond payment listed.

[jagdl]

It is advisable to carry the bond for a few years even if you think you just bought a forever home. Things change. Once you are here for a while you may find better options. Many people are in their second home for various reasons.

Here comes the bond part. The home value does not include the bond. A 200,000 home is not a 220,000 home because the bond is paid. Banks don't appraise high er. This forces all buyers to be able to pay that extra money up front in cash.

It is hard to explain to new buyers why the house is priced 20,000 over market value in a real estate ad.

We bought one part time home and one forever home....and sold them both. Thank heaven we held off paying the bond on both.

[kstew43]

Originally Posted by Boilerman

Thanks. Since I don't own a home yet there, I was looking for a typical annual cost for a bond in my price range. Sometimes you see the bond balance listed in a for-sale listing but I've never seen the annual bond payment listed.

go to the county tax assessor site...put in the address and all the information on that home will be in black and white.

Price, yearly bond payment..maintance fees, everthing you need to know..

except the bond balance. the realtor can tell you that by asking the seller.

[VillagerNut]

Originally Posted by Challenger

If this this is the case they are violating all the principals of appraisal regulating bodies. The bond is part of total consideration for the house. Should also be included in determining the total consideration for comps. This premise is very strange. I suspect real estate professionals love it as it mis states the purchase price so that bond homes seem to be a better buy and therefore easier to sell. Someone !statistical evidence ---please.

Please feel free to contact any appraiser that you would like to contact here in the area. You will find that no appraiser will take into account that a bond is paid off or has a $50,000 bond. It is part of the tax bill so it has no part in an appraisal. Do buyers look at the fact that a bond is paid off versus a higher bond? Absolutely! But location, what is behind the house like another house or privacy, where the interior walls are at & the list price should normally be the biggest factors when purchasing a home here. When it should come in the play is if you are down to three homes and you cannot decide which one to purchase then you may look at the remaining Bond balance to decide. But overall the person that asked about a $300,000 home, the easiest way to think about it is the newer the House, the higher the CDD bond and the CDD maintenance amounts on your tax bill. Plus sometimes you will find homes where the folks have paid the bond off. Yes our real estate market is extremely different than any other market in the United States. It is up to the owner of the house to decide when or if to pay off the bond!

[Sandtrap328]

Originally Posted by VillagerNut

Please feel free to contact any appraiser that you would like to contact here in the area. You will find that no appraiser will take into account that a bond is paid off or has a $50,000 bond. It is part of the tax bill so it has no part in an appraisal. Do buyers look at the fact that a bond is paid off versus a higher bond? Absolutely! But location, what is behind the house like another house or privacy, where the interior walls are at & the list price should normally be the biggest factors when purchasing a home here. When it should come in the play is if you are down to three homes and you cannot decide which one to purchase then you may look at the remaining Bond balance to decide. But overall the person that asked about a $300,000 home, the easiest way to think about it is the newer the House, the higher the CDD bond and the CDD maintenance amounts on your tax bill. Plus sometimes you will find homes where the folks have paid the bond off. Yes our real estate market is extremely different than any other market in the United States. It is up to the owner of the house to decide when or if to pay off the bond!

Excellent post!