[hollywoodz]

Originally Posted by jswirs

I could not agree more with your assessment. I prefer to live in the good old USA. If I should happen to die from this virus, so be it. I would rather die a free man than live my life in fear or even extreme caution, not knowing what I will have to sacrifice just so that I can continue to live. To quote Julius Cesar, from my high school days, "Cowards die many times before their death, the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come".

This person saying (s)he would rather die from the virus but live free. I will be polite here, but is this individual all together with it? I would rather take logical precautions guided by government edicts to preserve my life from a silent, deadly killer than have another be so irresponsible (by "living free") that jeopardizes my health, safety and well-being. That is why I figuratively vomited when I saw those in Michgan, Virginia and Minnesota brandishing their guns when protesting their governors' stay-at-home orders. If such individuals want to protest that way, may they all become infected, maybe die? But don't tread on me!

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

A discussion on morals: Is it your neighbor's responsibility to keep you safe/healthy?

I think you asked the wrong question. The question should be: “Is it OK for my indifference, carelessness, or selfishness to endanger someone else?”

Do you think that stop signs infringe on your freedom and that it’s OK to run them? Isn’t running a stop sign and causing an accident that takes someone’s life similar to coughing and spraying someone with your C-19 germs? In the case of the stop sign, you could be charged with manslaughter. By trying to maintain your regular activities and ignoring the guidance to cover your face to stop your germs from being sprayed on others, your are being reckless and are endangering others’ lives. You might not be convicted of reckless endangerment, but if someone dies because of your selfishness you HAVE committed manslaughter and are just as guilty as someone who ignores stop signs.

[Aloha1]

Originally Posted by Aces4

One more question to be added regarding morality: what is more important... one’s fellow man or the almighty dollar?

Money to feed your family or starvation?

[EviesGP]

Just hoping we get behind this, and our country heals.

However, I also think there's going to be some serious litigation on this topic, in the aftermath. Specifically, the enforcement(fines, arrests, etc). Legislatures create laws, and the executive branch executes and enforces them. Not sure how the courts will view the fines and/or arrests of individuals for not complying with edicts(vs a law/ordinance)? As for the Michigan issue, I think the governor went a bit too far, in deciding what stores could operate and sell? Telling one store they had to close, because their product wasn't essential, but Wal-marts all remain open, and are not restricted in what they sell(which is much of the same product)?! Again, hoping we just come out this whole again.
Cheers!

[Bill1701]

Most of us in The Villages are retired and aren't working so we have a different perspective from those in the real world. While I understand your fear and why you think everyone should stay home, would you feel the same way if you weren't getting your pension or social security check every month? What about if you had already exhausted your savings? Do you really think all the food production people in this country should stay home? What about delivery people?
That fact is, the vast majority of people around the world have to get out and make a living. Yes, many can wear masks while they work but many cannot. Don't they deserve to live just as much as you do? The majority of deaths and serious illnesses from the virus are people over 70. Those people, for the most part, can stay home and try to be safe. The rest of the population needs to balance the need for income with the need for safety, but sooner rather than later they will need to return to work.

[Twiganne]

Notice how the two states, CA and NY, are squealing for a bailout. Hmmm. Sounds like the governors are not managing their budgets very well. NY and CA have the highest taxes yet have spent it all on ridiculous projects or sanctuary cities. Why should be bail them out when they squandered all of the money in taxes. Seems to me if the federal government bails them out it will never create an incentive for them to manage their budgets responsibility.

[Twiganne]

Well said

[600th Photo Sq]

[QUOTE=B767drvr;1748971]A discussion on morals: Is it your neighbor's responsibility to keep you safe/healthy?

If so, how far are we willing to infringe on others' rights/freedoms to keep others safe?

Is it okay to destroy people's businesses by forcing their extended closure to "protect" others' health?

Is it okay to forcefully remove people from public transportation for not wearing masks?

In Laredo, Texas... it's a $1,000 fine if you go out in public without a mask. The mask requirement can be a cloth draping... i.e., it is not for the wearer's safety, it is for others' safety. Do you agree with this? If so, why? If not, why not?

Have we considered the effects of our actions on our health care workers? Did they sign up for a worldwide global deadly pandemic threatening not only their job, but their life? How about going to work with little to no PPE and "hoping" they stay safe? Did they sign up for this? How might your actions impact their life? Is it okay to make choices and then expect others to "fix" (health care workers) them?[/QUOTE

Your question and comments are ridiculous. The health care profession is what it is taking care of the sick, injured, those in need of hospital care.

They had no idea that this virus was going to happen any more than a person joining the military and find out months later, he/she going to war. It is what it is, dealing with the unexpected.

The Military for example is hit very hard with corona virus, the overseas rotations are on hold pretty much for the foreseeable future. Coming home from an overseas assignment after 2-3 year tour with or without dependents, on hold.

Emergency leave, and those leaving the military are the only exceptions.

Look at the epidemic of 1918 over 100 years ago they didn't have todays medical knowledge, 20,000 people died in Philadelphia alone. People lived in real fear they had no idea what was happening. Compare that with today.

People were expected to live under the very same restrictions that are in place today, yes including wearing a mask in public.

[Twiganne]

That governor in Michigan is bat crazy (no pun intended). She says it is fine to out on the water in a canoe but not a motorboat. How does that make sense. I am glad I live in Fl where we have a partial common sense approach to this problem.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

A discussion on morals: Is it your neighbor's responsibility to keep you safe/healthy?

If so, how far are we willing to infringe on others' rights/freedoms to keep others safe?

Is it okay to destroy people's businesses by forcing their extended closure to "protect" others' health?

Is it okay to forcefully remove people from public transportation for not wearing masks?

In Laredo, Texas... it's a $1,000 fine if you go out in public without a mask. The mask requirement can be a cloth draping... i.e., it is not for the wearer's safety, it is for others' safety. Do you agree with this? If so, why? If not, why not?

Have we considered the effects of our actions on our health care workers? Did they sign up for a worldwide global deadly pandemic threatening not only their job, but their life? How about going to work with little to no PPE and "hoping" they stay safe? Did they sign up for this? How might your actions impact their life? Is it okay to make choices and then expect others to "fix" (health care workers) them?

Yes, they took and oath-and they signed up for career with excellent pay and opportunities. Like all professions you take the good with the bad. Yes, it tough times and they are earning their pay. I compare it to the typical soldier, it’s great when you NOT getting shot at. But, when first time somebody praised them when they get killed. Some ____ says they knew what they was getting into.

[dougjb]

It seems to me that in the conditions we live in now, we must all sacrifice a bit for the common good.

In my life, I have never been subject to something as nasty as COVID-19. Whole countries and cities do not close down for the heck of it. But, they are. I am a great reader of history. Rarely has anything of this magnitude in human history occured. Perhaps the closest were the several wave of the Black Plague in the Middle Ages. People had the same arguments that many of you have expressed here. There were those who wanted to close down everything until the plague passed. There were those who said no way, I want to go about my business. History does not tell us who was right except in a few instances where cities that closed down better survived the plague.

It also seems to me that we have lost our ability to care about our fellow humans. I am too young to have lived through WWII. But, from what I gather many goods were rationed for the war effort. Each made a sacrifice for the common good. Have we lost that ability?

One other thought: We all comply with rules meant for the common good. If we did not and only cared about making a buck, then why should I wait for a red light in traffic. Why don't I just charge across the road to get to my business; the hell with everyone else. Why do I stay in my own lane? I want my freedom. Why should I care about anyone else's safety? I am sorry but we elect leaders to lead us. It is not just about me. It is about us. If you do not like the constraints imposed upon us by our leaders, then just vote them out. But, they are our leaders and they are charged with making decisions for the common good. Have we lost our ability to comply with rules? License is not what we should seek. We should seek some rules that keep our lanes in life clear. And being able to run about spreading a disease that we may or may not have is like running red lights because we really do not care a whit about others.

Can't we just please take a deep breath, watch another episode of Leave it to Beaver, knowing that the restrictions will be lifted when it is appropriate that be lifted. Perhaps that time will be when we can all be tested?

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Aces4

One more question to be added regarding morality: what is more important...
one’s fellow man or the almighty dollar?

What happen when there aren’t no dollars. Man against man and the strongest survives. If we go another month or two thing are going to get really bad IMO. the scales are tipping.

[HelenLCSW]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

A discussion on morals: Is it your neighbor's responsibility to keep you safe/healthy?

If so, how far are we willing to infringe on others' rights/freedoms to keep others safe?

Is it okay to destroy people's businesses by forcing their extended closure to "protect" others' health?

Is it okay to forcefully remove people from public transportation for not wearing masks?




In Laredo, Texas... it's a $1,000 fine if you go out in public without a mask. The mask requirement can be a cloth draping... i.e., it is not for the wearer's safety, it is for others' safety. Do you agree with this? If so, why? If not, why not?


Have we considered the effects of our actions on our health care workers? Did they sign up for a worldwide global deadly pandemic threatening not only their job, but their life? How about going to work with little to no PPE and "hoping" they stay safe? Did they sign up for this? How might your actions impact their life? Is it okay to make choices and then expect others to "fix" (health care workers) them?

This is not really about you being responsible for neighbor safety — it’s about stopping a pandemic from spreading. If your loved ones neighbors don’t know they have it and they don’t follow the guidelines the virus continues to spread and Eventually your loved ones will get the virus. That’s how plagues work.
It’s not about responsibility for neighbors—and what about the health care workers who have to take care of the neighbors you don’t care about —do you care nothing about the sacrifices they are making to take care of your neighbors?

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by dougjb

It seems to me that in the conditions we live in now, we must all sacrifice a bit for the common good.

In my life, I have never been subject to something as nasty as COVID-19. Whole countries and cities do not close down for the heck of it. But, they are. I am a great reader of history. Rarely has anything of this magnitude in human history occured. Perhaps the closest were the several wave of the Black Plague in the Middle Ages. People had the same arguments that many of you have expressed here. There were those who wanted to close down everything until the plague passed. There were those who said no way, I want to go about my business. History does not tell us who was right except in a few instances where cities that closed down better survived the plague.

It also seems to me that we have lost our ability to care about our fellow humans. I am too young to have lived through WWII. But, from what I gather many goods were rationed for the war effort. Each made a sacrifice for the common good. Have we lost that ability?

One other thought: We all comply with rules meant for the common good. If we did not and only cared about making a buck, then why should I wait for a red light in traffic. Why don't I just charge across the road to get to my business; the hell with everyone else. Why do I stay in my own lane? I want my freedom. Why should I care about anyone else's safety? I am sorry but we elect leaders to lead us. It is not just about me. It is about us. If you do not like the constraints imposed upon us by our leaders, then just vote them out. But, they are our leaders and they are charged with making decisions for the common good. Have we lost our ability to comply with rules? License is not what we should seek. We should seek some rules that keep our lanes in life clear. And being able to run about spreading a disease that we may or may not have is like running red lights because we really do not care a whit about others.

Can't we just please take a deep breath, watch another episode of Leave it to Beaver, knowing that the restrictions will be lifted when it is appropriate that be lifted. Perhaps that time will be when we can all be tested?

You do realize it’s not about our little bubble. People that make the world go around are suffering. When they suffer we WILL eventually suffer. I go out on limb here and say 98% in villages have never been hungry and I don’t mean missing lunch or supper either

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by jswirs

I could not agree more with your assessment. I prefer to live in the good old USA. If I should happen to die from this virus, so be it. I would rather die a free man than live my life in fear or even extreme caution, not knowing what I will have to sacrifice just so that I can continue to live. To quote Julius Cesar, from my high school days, "Cowards die many times before their death, the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come".

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Wow!

DOUBLE DITTO.