[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by pbeinetti

Good information BLUEASH -- thanks. The building is listed on county records as a 'CHURCH', not an entertainment venue. Interesting!

Let me take one more stab at this -- perhaps I wasn't as clear in my writing as I am in my head. Gracie is right, why would I be concerned since the developer has a good track record of building nice town squares, etc. In the case of new building, such as town squares, I don't think there is any reason to be concerned. But, in the case of renovating, and perhaps significantly changing, something many, many of us have used and loved for years, it is concerning. ESPECIALLY because the developer has been very ambiguous about what he calls 'future programming' -- that is, how the new building will be used in the future. Like many of us who live in The Villages, I ran a large organization in my previous life. I believed in transparency -- no secrecy, no hiding, open kimona. The developer does not operate that way. Secrecy leads to suspicion. And in the case of the Church on the Square I think there is reason to be suspicious.

Well said.

Now we will wait and see if the plans can be found and if they are doing it inside like a space ship what can be done to change that.

[Bonny]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Well said.

Now we will wait and see if the plans can be found and if they are doing it inside like a space ship what can be done to change that.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I am wondering, if the Church on the Square has that one non denominational service per week does it qualify as Church under the IRS laws? Does the owner get a break on taxes? If so, why would he discontinue the services?

Maybe the services are being discontinued until the renovations on the building are complete.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by pbeinetti

I would like to move this thread back to what I originally wrote about -- the Church on the Square. Does anyone have any information about whether or not church services will be held in the future? Gracie says the 'church' was never built to be a church, but an entertainment venue. And, that no other church type activities are held there. Not exactly true. There are bible studies held at the Church on the Square, and many Christmas/holiday activities that are amplified by being held in a church. If Church on the Square isn't a church, but an entertainment venue, then it should not have been named a church from the beginning. My original post had to do with whether we are being told the straight scoop by the developer. His comment ...'you will have some of the same things you have now...' is very ambiguous, probably on purpose. One poster suggested I contact Janet Tutt, but Janet is no more than a mouthpiece for the developer. Does anyone have any information, or is this one of those things where we'll find out when it happens -- whether we like it or not? I hate to be cynical on this, but there are many, many people who are going to be very disappointed, and feeling hoodwinked, if the Church on the Square ends up not looking like a church, with no church services. Morse says they have an artist's rendition -- fine, share it with us now.

you posted, '...Janet is no more than a mouthpiece for the developer...' and you would rather take the unsubstantiated rumors that can be found on totv over the word of janet tutt? lol

perhaps you could do a search on totv for 'arts center' - there has been a fair amount of 'information' posted that re the developer's efforts to work with a group to more entertainment space - and as i recall some of the tales have referenced increasing the church on the square dimensions. you could start with this thread BIG NEWS (Performing Art Center, etc.) and then realize how much has not happened since then!

[pbeinetti]

I am not asking for unsubstantiated rumors -- I have asked for factual information. I have had dealings with Janet Tutt and I don't believe she would give any information that has not already been shared by the developer. That being said, I do plan to contact her. The thread you provide I have seen before. It makes no mention of whether or not church services will continue. That is my question.

[redwitch]

I do remember reading an article in the POA newsletter about it. Sadly, can't remember all of it, but I did get the impression that there would no longer be church services after the renovation to a small performing arts center (all done with the developer's money). I'm sure someone can find the link for this article.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

The church's main purpose has always been as an entertainment venue. It was not built as a house of worship but as part of the scene of a Spanish town. It has always had just one non denominational service per week and no other church functions. It is being enlarged inside now and that is the reason for canceling the church service. I would be surprised if it didn't resume after the renovation. There has NEVER been fireworks here to my knowledge and the parades have been cancelled. There have always been disparaging remarks against almost all restaurants and many that I personally enjoy very much. I see nothing changing here. Same old, same old lovely place with lots to do.

I agree with what was said. Nothing has really changed. Sometimes people get upset when they do not know what is going on. The villages is and has always improved where it can. Updated places from pools to flowers to the squares. The bottom line is. Things are getting even better then before with more things to do and more beautiful eye candy all the time.

[OldManTime]

I have been in the Villages for 13 years, its a different place now, or maybe i'm 13 years older and see things differently. In the early days Harold Schwartz gave us so many things, that the grandchildren have taken away, but guess thats typical as to the vision of Harold vs the grandkids. I still say "Find me a better place to live, and i'll leave"..i'm still here.
As Skip0358 said, call Janet Tutt, she is responsive, honest, and up front, more than i can say about the grandchildren of Harold Schwartz.

[graciegirl]

If this was the point of the post it seems that many churches would offer the person in charge of this one non denominational service a place for it to be held in their building. OR... the OP could attend another service in another church for awhile and maybe like it as well. Or ask the leader to meet in one of the recreational facilities in the interim.

Or we could continue bashing the Morse family which I think is uncalled for.

There are dozens of churches with the full programs of churches, every flavor around here.

Doesn't seem very churchy to say mean things about someone who is trying to improve a building.

[looneycat]

Originally Posted by pbeinetti

I would like to move this thread back to what I originally wrote about -- the Church on the Square. Does anyone have any information about whether or not church services will be held in the future? Gracie says the 'church' was never built to be a church, but an entertainment venue. And, that no other church type activities are held there. Not exactly true. There are bible studies held at the Church on the Square, and many Christmas/holiday activities that are amplified by being held in a church. If Church on the Square isn't a church, but an entertainment venue, then it should not have been named a church from the beginning. My original post had to do with whether we are being told the straight scoop by the developer. His comment ...'you will have some of the same things you have now...' is very ambiguous, probably on purpose. One poster suggested I contact Janet Tutt, but Janet is no more than a mouthpiece for the developer. Does anyone have any information, or is this one of those things where we'll find out when it happens -- whether we like it or not? I hate to be cynical on this, but there are many, many people who are going to be very disappointed, and feeling hoodwinked, if the Church on the Square ends up not looking like a church, with no church services. Morse says they have an artist's rendition -- fine, share it with us now.

be disappointed, I am not Christian and am not represented in any way religiously in Villages maintained facilities. You're crying about a small doubt that services that represent one segment of the religious spectrum might disappear from one of the many christian facilities here? or that it just may not look like a church, really?? and not willing to make the one phone call that could answer the question?

[pbeinetti]

Looneycat, the Church on the Square is non denominational FYI. Yes, I can call Ms Tutt -- and, I will. As I said, I do not believe she will give any different info than has already been provided. Of course, other churches can take up the slack. But, the Church on the Square is special in many ways. If you haven't been there, you will not understand what I mean. The setting is beautiful, the music extraordinary, the rotating pastors do a fabulous job. Enough said! I asked to see if people had any input on whether services would be continued, and gave my opinion that it would be a shame if they are not -- and, that many people will be disappointed. Now I feel I'm starting to get bashed. I wasn't looking for that, nor expecting it. I'll explore this in other places. Bye!

[looneycat]

Originally Posted by pbeinetti

Looneycat, the Church on the Square is non denominational FYI. Yes, I can call Ms Tutt -- and, I will. As I said, I do not believe she will give any different info than has already been provided. Of course, other churches can take up the slack. But, the Church on the Square is special in many ways. If you haven't been there, you will not understand what I mean. The setting is beautiful, the music extraordinary, the rotating pastors do a fabulous job. Enough said! I asked to see if people had any input on whether services would be continued, and gave my opinion that it would be a shame if they are not -- and, that many people will be disappointed. Now I feel I'm starting to get bashed. I wasn't looking for that, nor expecting it. I'll explore this in other places. Bye!

a non denominational service run by christian pastors, that speaks of God in christian terms is not nondenominational, it just serves all the christian variations..uh, denominations, sorry. yes I've been there, nice building, it should make a great playhouse. as far as bashing, you asked for info you got the most expedient method for ascertaining an answer, over and out bucko!

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

The church's main purpose has always been as an entertainment venue. It was not built as a house of worship but as part of the scene of a Spanish town. It has always had just one non denominational service per week and no other church functions. It is being enlarged inside now and that is the reason for canceling the church service. I would be surprised if it didn't resume after the renovation. There has NEVER been fireworks here to my knowledge and the parades have been cancelled. There have always been disparaging remarks against almost all restaurants and many that I personally enjoy very much. I see nothing changing here. Same old, same old lovely place with lots to do.

I wish I had more facts but this is my understanding, It would be a stretch noto say it was built as a house of worship. Is it not true that the church orginally observed Episcopalian services, the religion practiced by the Schwartz family ?? And how could anyone step inside the building and nmot deem it a house of worship?? The stained glass windows, the pew seating the huge pipe organ, the belfry bells speak to anyone that this is truly a church. I am sorry but I cannot agree that the Church on the Square was built as an entertainment venue. There have been some great sermons preached in that building. I admit there was no active congregation as we find in most churches, but I have heard more praying in this church than a lot of other churches.

[Indydealmaker]

Originally Posted by pbeinetti

I would like to move this thread back to what I originally wrote about -- the Church on the Square. Does anyone have any information about whether or not church services will be held in the future? Gracie says the 'church' was never built to be a church, but an entertainment venue. And, that no other church type activities are held there. Not exactly true. There are bible studies held at the Church on the Square, and many Christmas/holiday activities that are amplified by being held in a church. If Church on the Square isn't a church, but an entertainment venue, then it should not have been named a church from the beginning. My original post had to do with whether we are being told the straight scoop by the developer. His comment ...'you will have some of the same things you have now...' is very ambiguous, probably on purpose. One poster suggested I contact Janet Tutt, but Janet is no more than a mouthpiece for the developer. Does anyone have any information, or is this one of those things where we'll find out when it happens -- whether we like it or not? I hate to be cynical on this, but there are many, many people who are going to be very disappointed, and feeling hoodwinked, if the Church on the Square ends up not looking like a church, with no church services. Morse says they have an artist's rendition -- fine, share it with us now.

That "mouthpiece" that you refer to is the Villages manager. She is more in the know than any of the hundreds of people that report to her. If she cannot advise you, then Morris certainly is not going to. These people run a business. They do not owe you or anyone else a heads up.

I think many people have moved here with a totally unrealistic set of expectations. This is a manufactured community. Manufactured by The Villages to make money. The offerings necessary to induce you to buy are all in your documents. All other expectations are "assumed". The offerings here will ebb and flow as is necessary to make money. The basic amenities are paid for by your fees. Maintenance is also paid for by your fees. Your executive golf is free. All other amenities such as entertainment on the squares, parades, etc. will continue as long as the business flows to the merchants. The type of businesses that are here will be dependent upon whether they can be survive and thrive on business primarily from The Villages residents. If not, they will be gone and someone else will give it a shot.

Long story short; you are not moving into a community with guarantees that nothing will ever change. Costs will increase just like outside of the imaginary bubble. The changes at the church were at the request of many people here who wanted an additional high caliber entertainment venue. The developer has agreed to make these changes with his own dollar. How much more can you ask?

[Ragman]

We recently stopped by COTS with friends and the gentleman at the church said the new venue would be built next door where the little park is now. The entrance would be at the same location and guests would walk to the right down a walkway. The new venue will have conventional theater seating.

The church would remain with reduced seating, but not be used for entertainment; services may be held as well as rented for weddings, etc.

Not saying these are absolute facts,but sounds reasonable.

He said church was originally Episcopal and the organ is electric with fake pipes( fooled me).