Is connectivity to south of SR44 slipping again?

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  #76  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mjdollard View Post
Goldwing,
I've liked your fly overs (where are they?) and on the pickleball issue I think you have a very valid point.

That said I am comfortable saying you are not one to make loony comments but I have to question this one. First, the Publix in Trailwinds had a sign up "Coming Soon" for over a year before they started doing anything. Magnolia Plaza is fast tracked in comparison. Second, the Turnpike bridge is held up by FDOT foot dragging. The bridge is built and waiting to be placed - I know that from your videos - but they cannot get the permits to put it there. The word is that there will be no traffic stoppages until after snowbird season. Since the bridge is completed and sitting there what other explanation is there?

As to Gracie's comments, the tax issue and the developer are not related, I don't care what anyone says. The biggest driver behind the tax hike is road construction and that is solely the county's issue. 468 (aka Warm Springs) was over capacity and breaking up long before Fenney started, I was down there in 2010 during a LSP and remember that the road was in bad shape (I was a town manager in NY at the time and paid attention to those things). The county DPW manager and the budget director apparently never went out doors. And - before you blame TV for the road issue and being in bed with the county remember that TV did not start Fenney, another developer did
Thanks, I do try not to make "loony comments", there are more than enough people out there doing that to entertain all of us for may years to come. My comments are, as in the case of the OP, based on observations, logic, and careful reasoning and not meant to be bashing (unjustly) the developer or anyone else.

In the case of 466A Publix and Magnolia Plaza I don't believe my comment to be loony in any way. Regardless of signage my comment was based on the observed actual construction work, MP work was started about 6 months ago and they've been moving dirt for an uncharacteristically long time whereas the Publix on 466A the digging started only about 2 months ago and walls are already going up. Both locations started from the same point of Stage 1 initial clearing and preparations being completed.

I'm aware of the Turnpike bridge and FTE's (FTE is the Florida Turnpike Enterprise, they have control over the turnpike operations and not FDOT) policy about lane closures. I worked on the Turnpike and with the FTE for nearly 7 years doing the toll system replacement and security upgrades in every toll plaza from CR470 to Homestead, I know the roads, facilities, and people on the Turnpike very well. I was the one who made the post about the high season lane closures a few weeks ago that you are referencing.

With my drone I get a unique view of what is going on, much of which I haven't previously shared with the public by request of TV management. What appears to be the case, as I previously stated, is that there are at least 6 distinct areas being worked over a much larger geographical area than has previously been undertaken. This appears to be pushing the limits of the local construction resources and they are unable to keep the robust pace we have previously seen. The area between SR44 and the Turnpike, in my opinion, does not appear to be progressing as quickly as anticipated. Without this area being completed to the point of being able to at least sell lots and spec homes connectivity is not going to be a reality due to the construction hazards. This has also reflected in the access control of the north end of Marsh Bend Trail, it has only recently been allowed up to the DeLuna area that just went up for sale. It is still not allowed up to the Water Lilly rec center and bridge area. The area on the north side of Turnpike has a lot more to go.

I agree with you that the taxes and road construction on 468 are fully the county's responsibility/fault and not the developer, I've never put that on the developer because it simply isn't their issue. When the county approves any new development, they are responsible for upgrading their infrastructure to support what they've approved, that's the purpose of the impact fees, to cover these costs. Sumter County has failed to adequately manage these responsibilities and has dumped the cost of their incompetence on the tax payers. There was no secret any of this growth was coming, they approved all of this growth and they are required to do a 5 year financial projection every year to prevent the huge tax increases we've just experienced. They failed to act responsibly and wanted to continue their string of "no tax increase" propaganda, it's now bit them in the butt.

My OP was to point out the new schedule slippages that have been occurring recently on this critical piece of future infrastructure and lack of open communications of the changing expectations for it.

Wildwood Springs (Fenney & DeSoto) sat dormant for early a decade with zero progress until The Villages stepped in, only then did the first shovelful of dirt get moved. The same has held true for Cresswood, Landstone Communities, West Lakes, Southern Oaks, Renaissance Trails, and Secret Promise developments. All have been sitting dormant since before the bust of 2008 but are now being brought back to life as a part of The Villages developments.
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  #77  
Old 12-05-2019, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingnut View Post
Thanks, I do try not to make "loony comments", there are more than enough people out there doing that to entertain all of us for may years to come. My comments are, as in the case of the OP, based on observations, logic, and careful reasoning and not meant to be bashing (unjustly) the developer or anyone else.

In the case of 466A Publix and Magnolia Plaza I don't believe my comment to be loony in any way. Regardless of signage my comment was based on the observed actual construction work, MP work was started about 6 months ago and they've been moving dirt for an uncharacteristically long time whereas the Publix on 466A the digging started only about 2 months ago and walls are already going up. Both locations started from the same point of Stage 1 initial clearing and preparations being completed.

I'm aware of the Turnpike bridge and FTE's (FTE is the Florida Turnpike Enterprise, they have control over the turnpike operations and not FDOT) policy about lane closures. I worked on the Turnpike and with the FTE for nearly 7 years doing the toll system replacement and security upgrades in every toll plaza from CR470 to Homestead, I know the roads, facilities, and people on the Turnpike very well. I was the one who made the post about the high season lane closures a few weeks ago that you are referencing.

With my drone I get a unique view of what is going on, much of which I haven't previously shared with the public by request of TV management. What appears to be the case, as I previously stated, is that there are at least 6 distinct areas being worked over a much larger geographical area than has previously been undertaken. This appears to be pushing the limits of the local construction resources and they are unable to keep the robust pace we have previously seen. The area between SR44 and the Turnpike, in my opinion, does not appear to be progressing as quickly as anticipated. Without this area being completed to the point of being able to at least sell lots and spec homes connectivity is not going to be a reality due to the construction hazards. This has also reflected in the access control of the north end of Marsh Bend Trail, it has only recently been allowed up to the DeLuna area that just went up for sale. It is still not allowed up to the Water Lilly rec center and bridge area. The area on the north side of Turnpike has a lot more to go.

I agree with you that the taxes and road construction on 468 are fully the county's responsibility/fault and not the developer, I've never put that on the developer because it simply isn't their issue. When the county approves any new development, they are responsible for upgrading their infrastructure to support what they've approved, that's the purpose of the impact fees, to cover these costs. Sumter County has failed to adequately manage these responsibilities and has dumped the cost of their incompetence on the tax payers. There was no secret any of this growth was coming, they approved all of this growth and they are required to do a 5 year financial projection every year to prevent the huge tax increases we've just experienced. They failed to act responsibly and wanted to continue their string of "no tax increase" propaganda, it's now bit them in the butt.

My OP was to point out the new schedule slippages that have been occurring recently on this critical piece of future infrastructure and lack of open communications of the changing expectations for it.

Wildwood Springs (Fenney & DeSoto) sat dormant for early a decade with zero progress until The Villages stepped in, only then did the first shovelful of dirt get moved. The same has held true for Cresswood, Landstone Communities, West Lakes, Southern Oaks, Renaissance Trails, and Secret Promise developments. All have been sitting dormant since before the bust of 2008 but are now being brought back to life as a part of The Villages developments.
Look at my pictures taken from the Cub over the last few months to confirm Dons underlined comments.
More aerial shots of TV south from the Cub
  #78  
Old 12-05-2019, 08:41 AM
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  #79  
Old 12-05-2019, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingnut View Post
Thanks, I do try not to make "loony comments", there are more than enough people out there doing that to entertain all of us for may years to come. My comments are, as in the case of the OP, based on observations, logic, and careful reasoning and not meant to be bashing (unjustly) the developer or anyone else.

In the case of 466A Publix and Magnolia Plaza I don't believe my comment to be loony in any way. Regardless of signage my comment was based on the observed actual construction work, MP work was started about 6 months ago and they've been moving dirt for an uncharacteristically long time whereas the Publix on 466A the digging started only about 2 months ago and walls are already going up. Both locations started from the same point of Stage 1 initial clearing and preparations being completed.

I'm aware of the Turnpike bridge and FTE's (FTE is the Florida Turnpike Enterprise, they have control over the turnpike operations and not FDOT) policy about lane closures. I worked on the Turnpike and with the FTE for nearly 7 years doing the toll system replacement and security upgrades in every toll plaza from CR470 to Homestead, I know the roads, facilities, and people on the Turnpike very well. I was the one who made the post about the high season lane closures a few weeks ago that you are referencing.

With my drone I get a unique view of what is going on, much of which I haven't previously shared with the public by request of TV management. What appears to be the case, as I previously stated, is that there are at least 6 distinct areas being worked over a much larger geographical area than has previously been undertaken. This appears to be pushing the limits of the local construction resources and they are unable to keep the robust pace we have previously seen. The area between SR44 and the Turnpike, in my opinion, does not appear to be progressing as quickly as anticipated. Without this area being completed to the point of being able to at least sell lots and spec homes connectivity is not going to be a reality due to the construction hazards. This has also reflected in the access control of the north end of Marsh Bend Trail, it has only recently been allowed up to the DeLuna area that just went up for sale. It is still not allowed up to the Water Lilly rec center and bridge area. The area on the north side of Turnpike has a lot more to go.

I agree with you that the taxes and road construction on 468 are fully the county's responsibility/fault and not the developer, I've never put that on the developer because it simply isn't their issue. When the county approves any new development, they are responsible for upgrading their infrastructure to support what they've approved, that's the purpose of the impact fees, to cover these costs. Sumter County has failed to adequately manage these responsibilities and has dumped the cost of their incompetence on the tax payers. There was no secret any of this growth was coming, they approved all of this growth and they are required to do a 5 year financial projection every year to prevent the huge tax increases we've just experienced. They failed to act responsibly and wanted to continue their string of "no tax increase" propaganda, it's now bit them in the butt.

My OP was to point out the new schedule slippages that have been occurring recently on this critical piece of future infrastructure and lack of open communications of the changing expectations for it.

Wildwood Springs (Fenney & DeSoto) sat dormant for early a decade with zero progress until The Villages stepped in, only then did the first shovelful of dirt get moved. The same has held true for Cresswood, Landstone Communities, West Lakes, Southern Oaks, Renaissance Trails, and Secret Promise developments. All have been sitting dormant since before the bust of 2008 but are now being brought back to life as a part of The Villages developments.
I should have read this post first. I am so glad that your wisdom is here for us and I so appreciate your insight.
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  #80  
Old 12-05-2019, 11:50 AM
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Default Don’t care about connectivity

Moved into DeSoto in February and really don’t care about connectivity. It is easier for me to drive to championship courses and we have 5 nice executive courses I can play down here. I also get free carts at championship courses which is nice and most courses are within a 30 minute drive.

I ride my bike by Magnolia Plaza 3 times a week and also drive by their daily. It truly looks like very little has been done lately. They advertised completion by fall 2020 when we were looking down south and that probably has slipped. The Publix at Lake Deaton is close so no big deal for us.

I am more interested in getting the roads done, especially the 4 landing of Warm Springs. This is a county issue and seems to be taking forever. The mess at 301 and Warm Springs also seems to be moving slowly (again county issue). It will also be nice when Meggison road is extended to Warm Springs. That should cut down on the trip time to Brownwood by about 5 minutes.

I think Don has it right, they look way overextended trying to open several areas at once and slipping on some of the infrastructure areas. I think the builder has an incentive to get connectivity done as soon as possible because I believe once connectivity happens they can raise prices on homes. But maybe there are issues with the state on getting that bridge over the turnpike. It will all eventually happen and in 5 to 10 years we will be talking about points south of 470.
  #81  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dond1959 View Post
It will all eventually happen and in 5 to 10 years we will be talking about points south of 470.
Closer to 3 to 5 years to be south of SR470 based on what I am seeing...
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  #82  
Old 12-05-2019, 05:47 PM
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Given how fast the new buildings around Brownwood progressed, I wondered if there was a change in priority and commercial building resouces diverted to complete those buildings first.

Another factor could be construction is delayed until a minimum critical mass of tenants is confirmed.
  #83  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:50 AM
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They may be waiting to get a commitment from a supermarket to anchor the shopping plaza. Though the Publix at Lake Deaton is now busy, when they first put it in you could go bowling in there. Another Publix in Magnolia Plaza would cannabalize some of that business. Perhaps they (and Winn Dixie) are waiting for more full time residents before committing to investing.

I’d wager the day they announce the grand opening date of a super market there the price of homes in the area will jump.

Last edited by charmed59; 12-06-2019 at 07:51 AM. Reason: Autocorrect....
  #84  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dond1959 View Post
Moved into DeSoto in February and really don’t care about connectivity.



Very true for most of the "Southerners".



Just the Northerner Debbie Downers are trying to make an issue out of connectivity.
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  #85  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:23 AM
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Based on what I've observed in this thread and what I've heard from people north of 44 it seems that there will always be a disconnect from the north and the south even after all the connecting issues are resolved. Not that this is a terrible situation: it's fairly common in larger cities which we are becoming. We will all be Villagers in the end.
  #86  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:26 AM
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Based on what I've observed in this thread and what I've heard from people north of 44 it seems that there will always be a disconnect from the north and the south even after all the connecting issues are resolved. Not that this is a terrible situation: it's fairly common in larger cities which we are becoming. We will all be Villagers in the end.



Heading to Chicago today.


Stop #1, Uno's
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  #87  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:31 AM
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Heading to Chicago today.


Stop #1, Uno's
Stop #2, Due's 😉
  #88  
Old 12-06-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldwingnut View Post
One is a cost of doing business the other is poor government planning. The developer didn't do it, the county government did it. I'm not taking sides with the developer, I'm pointing out the fault where it belongs. Do you honestly think another $1000 added to the price of a house would have deterred any sales over the last decade?

Yes, we all got screwed because some in county government wanted to put a feather in their own hats and say "look at us, no tax increase for 14 years", now we all see that there were short sighted fool that didn't bother to look at their 5 year forecasts that are required every year. Repaving of roads just snuck up on them and the development they approved had cost to the county they chose to ignore until it was too late.
I think we can agree that the county commissioners were ultimately to blame for the tax increase, but it is not all related to failing to look at 5 year plans. Public officials around the country routinely require businesses to pay for infrastructure improvements as a condition for granting approval for a development. Any county government worth a salt would never have granted the developer the rights to develop the area south of 44 without first getting an agreement from the developer to fund the infrastructure improvements that were required. That would have ultimately placed the cost of these improvements on those who benefit from them - those who are buying in the new areas.
  #89  
Old 12-07-2019, 08:07 AM
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I would imagine that scheduling and coordinating the bridge installations and connectivity over the Turnpike and State Road 44 require a lot more negotiating with state government officials than the local tunnels and bridges built in the past. Perhaps some of these approvals are slowing down the process?


The good news is we know it will happen...it's not an empty promise by a shady developer. The Villages does what it says it will do. The only variable is when it will happen, influenced, perhaps, by factors not totally in their control.
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  #90  
Old 12-07-2019, 08:48 AM
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Don't confuse things with logic.
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