[buggyone]

For all you with the dogs, I would worry a lot more about what other things they may sniff out in the tall grasses by the marshes and ponds. I have already mentioned the Cane Toads that dogs and grandkids pick up and then get violently sick from the poison.

There are also the Pygmy Rattlesnakes in the same areas. These are about 18" long and will deliver a bite that can kill a dog or make a bite on a child that kills flesh all around the wound.

You will encounter these on a much more frequent basis than ever seeing an alligator out of a pond.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by buggyone

For all you with the dogs, I would worry a lot more about what other things they may sniff out in the tall grasses by the marshes and ponds. I have already mentioned the Cane Toads that dogs and grandkids pick up and then get violently sick from the poison.

There are also the Pygmy Rattlesnakes in the same areas. These are about 18" long and will deliver a bite that can kill a dog or make a bite on a child that kills flesh all around the wound.

You will encounter these on a much more frequent basis than ever seeing an alligator out of a pond.

Good point. There's lots to be said for confining your dog to walking in the street and running at unforested dog parks like DDRR. And keeping them well out of the woods.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I'll pose my question again: How many gators per block would we have to be infested with to reach a number to get you to agree to start removing them?

A better question might be; What is the acceptable number of gators that you would have hanging out on your front lawn?

As long as they stay in the ponds and lakes and rivers, most people don't bother them. (Other than a few natives, most of us don't swim in those bodies of water). If they stay in their areas, we don't bother them. But when they encroach upon our areas and pose a danger to us, our dogs and yes, our children, (or grandchildren for most of us) something has to be done about it.

And that's not even bringing up the alligator poop on the lawn issue.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by buggyone

For all you with the dogs, I would worry a lot more about what other things they may sniff out in the tall grasses by the marshes and ponds. I have already mentioned the Cane Toads that dogs and grandkids pick up and then get violently sick from the poison.

There are also the Pygmy Rattlesnakes in the same areas. These are about 18" long and will deliver a bite that can kill a dog or make a bite on a child that kills flesh all around the wound.

You will encounter these on a much more frequent basis than ever seeing an alligator out of a pond.

And if a Pygmy Rattlesnake decided to make it's nest in your backyard, you'd leave it alone?

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

And if a Pygmy Rattlesnake decided to make it's nest in your backyard, you'd leave it alone?

Of course the thought of a gator in a residential area is very scary.
However a rattlesnake permanently nesting in a back yard is very different from a gator that will return to water.
I've seen gators on a lot of executive golf courses in The Villages.
I haven't heard of any golfers being attacked.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by buggyone

For all you with the dogs, I would worry a lot more about what other things they may sniff out in the tall grasses by the marshes and ponds. I have already mentioned the Cane Toads that dogs and grandkids pick up and then get violently sick from the poison.

There are also the Pygmy Rattlesnakes in the same areas. These are about 18" long and will deliver a bite that can kill a dog or make a bite on a child that kills flesh all around the wound.

You will encounter these on a much more frequent basis than ever seeing an alligator out of a pond.

Well, there's an assertion that I must dispute.

1. Is there anyone reading these posts who has seen a pygmy rattlesnake in The Villages? If so, please speak up.

2. Is there anyone reading these posts who has seen an alligator out of a pond in The Villages? I believe there are already posts on TOTV with reports of seeing alligators crossing roads and on golf courses.

3. And, using a rhetorical question often posed by those who want to let gators roam undisturbed, "Has there ever been a report of a person being bitten by a pygmy rattlesnake in The Villages?"

When I was younger I was a Florida outdoorsman and hunter. In hunting camp I slept on a blanket on the ground (not a sleeping bag) and I neither worried about nor was ever bothered by a rattlesnake.

In fact, in those years of actively hunting, for duck, dove, deer and quail, I never encountered a rattlesnake of any size.

Quail hunting, walking through low undergrowth, DOES carry with it the hazard of encountering full sized rattlesnakes because they prey on the quail and their eggs. Perhaps I was just lucky.

On the other hand, I did encounter and kill three pygmy rattlesnakes while on the dry sandy hills of Ft. Jackson, SC, during Army basic training. In all cases they were within two or three feet of a soldier. I killed them (awkwardly) with my bayonet.

My point is that I would not substitute a remote concern about pygmy rattlesnakes for the genuine hazard of alligators in close proximity to humans.

Incidentally, the pygmy rattlesnake bite delivers such a small quantity of venom that they are seldom fatal. Nonetheless, they are quite painful and immediate medical attention should be sought for a snake bite.

.

[buggyone]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Well, there's an assertion that I must dispute.

1. Is there anyone reading these posts who has seen a pygmy rattlesnake in The Villages? If so, please speak up.

2. Is there anyone reading these posts who has seen an alligator out of a pond in The Villages? I believe there are already posts on TOTV with reports of seeing alligators crossing roads and on golf courses.

3. And, using a rhetorical question often posed by those who want to let gators roam undisturbed, "Has there ever been a report of a person being bitten by a pygmy rattlesnake in The Villages?"

When I was younger I was a Florida outdoorsman and hunter. In hunting camp I slept on a blanket on the ground (not a sleeping bag) and I neither worried about nor was ever bothered by a rattlesnake.

In fact, in those years of actively hunting, for duck, dove, deer and quail, I never encountered a rattlesnake of any size.

Quail hunting, walking through low undergrowth, DOES carry with it the hazard of encountering full sized rattlesnakes because they prey on the quail and their eggs. Perhaps I was just lucky.

On the other hand, I did encounter and kill three pygmy rattlesnakes while on the dry sandy hills of Ft. Jackson, SC, during Army basic training. In all cases they were within two or three feet of a soldier. I killed them (awkwardly) with my bayonet.

My point is that I would not substitute a remote concern about pygmy rattlesnakes for the genuine hazard of alligators in close proximity to humans.

Incidentally, the pygmy rattlesnake bite delivers such a small quantity of venom that they are seldom fatal. Nonetheless, they are quite painful and immediate medical attention should be sought for a snake bite.

.

I am certain quite a few pygmy rattlesnakes have been seen here. I saw one at Pelican and one at Heron last year. I left both alone! I only have heard of one person bitten by an alligator here and that is when his unleashed dog went by a pond and the man saved the dog.

Care to discuss the Cane Toad and dispute their being here, too?

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by buggyone

I am certain quite a few pygmy rattlesnakes have been seen here. I saw one at Pelican and one at Heron last year. I left both alone! I only have heard of one person bitten by an alligator here and that is when his unleashed dog went by a pond and the man saved the dog.

Care to discuss the Cane Toad and dispute their being here, too?

Whoa! I didn't dispute there are pygmy rattlesnakes around. I just don't consider them a significant threat, particularly in residential areas.

Cane Toads? We've had them here since the 50's when I came to Florida. They are a non-native species that never should have been released here --- which is also true of the Burmese Python, which was also introduced to the wild in South Florida.

I came here from South Texas and we already had them there before I left.

Dogs and cats don't need to eat the Cane Toad to be poisoned by them. It only requires that they lick the toad because the poisonous secretion is on the surface of their skin.

I believe it was Shimpy who said he used to see them on the streets in the Miami area and would go out of his way to run over them. I say "good for him."

Since we agree they are so dangerous to pets and small children, would you agree that any Cane Toads that are seen should be killed and the bodies properly disposed of?

.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

When was the last time a person in TV was attacked by a gator? Again, questions for which I have no facts, so I just go with my gut feeling.

Maybe not in TV, but it was less than a year ago when there was a story in the news about a kid whose arm was completely bitten off by an alligator. He was swimming with a group of kids in an area where they have been swimming for years. Alligators never bothered them before, but this was this kids unlucky day. When I lived in Sarasota in 80's a two year old was eaten by an alligator while playing in his back yard. There are numerous stories over the years of children, dogs and other pets being attacked and killed by gators.

Gator attacks happen all the time. It's true that most of the time these beasts are docile and non-aggressive. But, there are also times that they attack without warning. They are dangerous animals and need to be removed from areas in which people live.
By the way. I sprayed a hornet's nest that was under my eave last week. I see no difference in that and removing an alligator except that when we kill an alligator, we can eat it and use it's skin to make useful products. Dead hornets are useless.

[buggyone]

You bet that Cane Toads should be killed and disposed of in a proper way. I am not against killing noxious critters. I am against killing alligators just because they are in the vicinity of people. Relocate the alligator to the depths of the Everglades in that case.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Gator attacks happen all the time. It's true that most of the time these beasts are docile and non-aggressive. But, there are also times that they attack without warning.

I have only heard of gators attacking people who are swimming or walking their dogs close to water.
In The Villages, a dog was attacked when he went to a pond.
I would never, ever take my dogs for a walk close to water.

Other than that, I haven't heard of any attacks in The Villages.
Have you?

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I have only heard of gators attacking people who are swimming or walking their dogs close to water.
In The Villages, a dog was attacked when he went to a pond.
Other than that, I haven't heard of any attacks in The Villages.
Have you?

So you would concede all of the areas around the ponds and lakes in The Villages to the gators and have the people, their pets and grandchildren stay away?

Again, how many hundreds of gators do you suppose would be in The Villages if there had not been a proactive removal program going on for the past several years, and at what density of gators per block would it have to get to for you to agree to start removing them?

With 1.3 million alligators in Florida alone, we can forebear having them in The Villages living alongside of humans and pets.

.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

So you would concede all of the areas around the ponds and lakes in The Villages to the gators and have the people, their pets and grandchildren stay away?

Again, how many hundreds of gators do you suppose would be in The Villages if there had not been a proactive removal program going on for the past several years, and at what density of gators per block would it have to get to for you to agree to start removing them?

With 1.3 million alligators in Florida alone, we can forebear having them in The Villages living alongside of humans and pets.

.

Yes, that's what I would do. I don't allow my pets to get into dangerous situations for them. The worst example was the alligator that had to be killed because a neglectful owner let his dog run around free in his yard that's on a pond.

And how about limiting the trapping and killing of alligators to those who are actually threatening the people and not just passing through their yards?
.........................
Nice picture, Carl!

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

So you would concede all of the areas around the ponds and lakes in The Villages to the gators and have the people, their pets and grandchildren stay away. ]

When we first bought a home in The Villages, we were told by a native Floridian
... "where there is water in Florida, there are gators".
So I've always found it prudent to stay away from water.

So shoot me!
But yes, I think dogs and children should NOT hang out around ponds or go swimming in lakes.
We have many Family Pools in TV where kids can safely swim.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

When we first bought a home in The Villages, we were told by a native Floridian ... "where there is water in Florida, there are gators". So I've always found it prudent to stay away from water.

So shoot me! But yes, I think dogs and children should NOT hang out around ponds or go swimming. We have many Family Pools in TV where kids can safely swim.

I agree with Bare. Where there are ponds, there may be gators, and kids shouldn't be swimming there. Pets shouldn't be taken around there. Lifeguarded ocean beaches or swimming pool for kids to swim.