[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Whitley

So are you saying that if the 7,000 permits that were rejected applied again July 1st, they would be approved and a gun sold to them? I want to be sure I understand.

Surely you are aware that no permit is required to purchase a gun in Florida. The only permit that could have been rejected is a permit for concealed carry. As of July 1 that permit is no longer required so those 7,000 will then be able to carry.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

You should read 790.151 more carefully. Concealed carry while under the influence is not prohibited by that statute.

Regardless of the statute, your response misses the point. We require some level of training before allowing someone to pilot a vehicle on our roadways - a device that when used as intended will cause no one any harm. Permitless carry will now allow someone to carry a handgun in public with no training - a device that when used as intended will end someone's life.

We have a serious problem in America with lack of self control. Lack of self control plus lack of training plus loaded weapons is a really frightening mix.

I stand corrected on the law. Thanks for making me re-read. But again, as I stated in the same post, having a concealed weapon cannot hurt you. It is only the wielding of the weapon that can cause the problem, and that is not affected by whether or not you have a permit.

As far as training to get the permit, you are taught how to safely use a weapon for self defense. What is it in the training required to carry a weapon that you think will overcome the self control problem that you raise? Are you saying that people with self control problems who carry with a permit and therefore "have training", will, because of that training, be safer to the public when they lose control and pull a gun unnecessarily?

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Surely you are aware that no permit is required to purchase a gun in Florida. The only permit that could have been rejected is a permit for concealed carry. As of July 1 that permit is no longer required so those 7,000 will then be able to carry.

They will be able to carry what? You are required to pass a background check before purchasing a handgun. It is very difficult to carry a rifle concealed.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

I stand corrected on the law. Thanks for making me re-read. But again, as I stated in the same post, having a concealed weapon cannot hurt you. It is only the wielding of the weapon that can cause the problem, and that is not affected by whether or not you have a permit.

As far as training to get the permit, you are taught how to safely use a weapon for self defense. What is it in the training required to carry a weapon that you think will overcome the self control problem that you raise? Are you saying that people with self control problems who carry with a permit and therefore "have training", will, because of that training, be safer to the public when they lose control and pull a gun unnecessarily?

Ideally, that training will also include instruction on when it might be appropriate to pull a gun including the potential consequences and that *might* prevent some problems. Additionally, just the requirement to attend training has *likely* caused some to decide not to bother thus keeping guns out of their reach in public places.

Training cannot solve all the problems but perhaps it has prevented some. We'll see what happens later this year.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Surely you are aware that no permit is required to purchase a gun in Florida. The only permit that could have been rejected is a permit for concealed carry. As of July 1 that permit is no longer required so those 7,000 will then be able to carry.

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

They will be able to carry what? You are required to pass a background check before purchasing a handgun. It is very difficult to carry a rifle concealed.

This is not about a background check, this is about satisfying the requirements for the permit to carry the weapon.

They may already own a handgun, there is no permit required for that. If the statement about the 7,000 denied permits is true then they were told they while they own the gun they are not allowed to carry the gun in public. So they own the gun and they can transport it to and from a range but they cannot carry it to the square for some reason... yet. Come July 1 that permit problem, whatever it was, goes away and they are free to bring their gun to the squares (or most other places).

[coconutmama]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Flags Half Staff

I would be more concerned about the head teacher losing her job for showing probably the worlds most famous statue to her art students.
Society is going mad.

So true.

[Rsenholzi]

Many of these are supporters of Trump and have been angry that he wasn’t re-elected. One person on my block is now flying it upside down. I find this to be very, very disrespectful to the vets who fought for this country. I truly wish they would read the rules and follow them or take their flag down . My dad was 17 years old when he fought for their right to be free. Be respectful flag flyers

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Life as I know it

Can you imagine sitting at the square next to someone that is drinking or drunk with a weapon in their pocket? I think we have a serious control problem in Florida.

And that would be just as illegal as if they had a carry permit...

I could imagine a lot of crazy scenarios. But I choose not to...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Tell that to many school, university and other shooting victims. I believe many of these shooters had gun permits. Stephen Paddock - Wikipedia

The Las Vegas shooter's road to 47 guns | CNN

Please define what you mean by a "gun permit"...

If you're saying that most school shooters had carry permits, you would be wrong...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Surely you are aware that no permit is required to purchase a gun in Florida. The only permit that could have been rejected is a permit for concealed carry. As of July 1 that permit is no longer required so those 7,000 will then be able to carry.

Can you cite where this "7,000 denied permits" number comes from?

Not that I don't believe you, but I don't believe you...

The only thing I could find on the Google machine is this: "In the 2021-22 fiscal year, more than 8,000 people who applied for concealed-carry licenses were denied as being ineligible. Data from the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services does not say why."

The "WHY" is important... Was it due to bad paperwork? Bad fingerprint cards (I know of several people who's cards were rejected. They were later accepted with new cards). Or were they denied due to failing a NICS check? If it's the latter, one must ask, how did they purchase a gun in the first place?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

This is not about a background check, this is about satisfying the requirements for the permit to carry the weapon.

They may already own a handgun, there is no permit required for that. If the statement about the 7,000 denied permits is true then they were told they while they own the gun they are not allowed to carry the gun in public. So they own the gun and they can transport it to and from a range but they cannot carry it to the square for some reason... yet. Come July 1 that permit problem, whatever it was, goes away and they are free to bring their gun to the squares (or most other places).

Until you identify that "permit problem", your point is moot...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Ideally, that training will also include instruction on when it might be appropriate to pull a gun including the potential consequences and that *might* prevent some problems. Additionally, just the requirement to attend training has *likely* caused some to decide not to bother thus keeping guns out of their reach in public places.

Training cannot solve all the problems but perhaps it has prevented some. We'll see what happens later this year.

Yes, training does include those things. Just like driver's ed includes things like "don't drive drunk" and "don't drive 100 mph thru one's neighborhood"...

But, people being people, sh!t happens...

[Number 10 GI]

A quick search and I found this bit of information on why a concealed carry permit can be denied.

https://www.fdacs.gov/Consumer-Resou...y-Requirements

Possible Reasons for Ineligibility

The physical inability to handle a firearm safely.
A felony conviction (unless civil and firearm rights have been restored by the convicting authority).
Having adjudication withheld or sentence suspended on a felony or misdemeanor crime of violence unless three years have elapsed since probation or other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled.
A conviction for a misdemeanor crime of violence in the last three years.
A conviction for violation of controlled substance laws or multiple arrests for such offenses.
A record of drug or alcohol abuse.
Two or more DUI convictions within the previous three years.
Being committed to a mental institution or adjudged incompetent or mentally defective.
Failing to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm.
Having been issued a domestic violence injunction or an injunction against repeat violence that is currently in force.
Renouncement of U.S. citizenship.
A dishonorable discharge from the armed forces.
Being a fugitive from justice.

Every one of these cited reasons, with the exception of the first and tenth one, prohibits a person from owning or possessing a firearm. If a person meets any of these reasons for rejection of a carry permit, and own or posses a firearm before applying for a carry license, they are in violation of the law by having a firearm in their possession.

[Number 10 GI]

Unintentional double post.

[Taltarzac725]

Those look like why they can deny a sale of a firearm by a business to an individual with one or more of those.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

A quick search and I found this bit of information on why a concealed carry permit can be denied.

https://www.fdacs.gov/Consumer-Resou...y-Requirements

Possible Reasons for Ineligibility

The physical inability to handle a firearm safely.
A felony conviction (unless civil and firearm rights have been restored by the convicting authority).
Having adjudication withheld or sentence suspended on a felony or misdemeanor crime of violence unless three years have elapsed since probation or other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled.
A conviction for a misdemeanor crime of violence in the last three years.
A conviction for violation of controlled substance laws or multiple arrests for such offenses.
A record of drug or alcohol abuse.
Two or more DUI convictions within the previous three years.
Being committed to a mental institution or adjudged incompetent or mentally defective.
Failing to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm.
Having been issued a domestic violence injunction or an injunction against repeat violence that is currently in force.
Renouncement of U.S. citizenship.
A dishonorable discharge from the armed forces.
Being a fugitive from justice.

Every one of these cited reasons, with the exception of the first and tenth one, prohibits a person from owning or possessing a firearm. If a person meets any of these reasons for rejection of a carry permit, and own or posses a firearm before applying for a carry license, they are in violation of the law by having a firearm in their possession.