[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Plinker

I am fully aware of the current assessments. How that would change next year should this referendum pass is anybodies guess. That is what many of the posts are concerned about. I’m agreeing with those stated concerns.

How will it change if the referendum does not pass? You don’t know that either yet that is apparently not a concern?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Plinker

Exactly my point. Wait until next year and provide a link so each property owner can get a precise dollar amount they would pay if the proposal was enacted. Also, more clearly offer pros and cons of a yes/no vote. Then, place the proposal on the ballot. Sure, the numbers will change year to year, but at least we will have a baseline to draw conclusions.
Right now, it appears that no concrete numbers are possible until AFTER the referendum passes. If this is the case then it appears the cart is ahead of the horse.

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Concrete numbers for your current assessment are available today and have been for a while now. How can you not know that after all the posts, articles, and announcements?

Originally Posted by Plinker

I am fully aware of the current assessments. How that would change next year should this referendum pass is anybodies guess. That is what many of the posts are concerned about. I’m agreeing with those stated concerns.

Originally Posted by Bill14564

How will it change if the referendum does not pass? You don’t know that either yet that is apparently not a concern?

What do we know & what don't we know:

Assessments:
- Change every year
- Went up significantly this year
- Don't know what will happen next year
- With the IFD: Don't know
- Without the IFD: Don't know

Property tax rate:
- 6.15mils last year
- 5.59 mils this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Will be decreased some amount due to VPSD being removed from budget
- Without the IFD: Don't know

VPSD budget request:
- $16M last year
- $17.6M this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved
- Without the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved

Fire protection cost per Village home:
- $124 + 1.33 mil last year
- $124 + 1.65 mil this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: $124 + 0.75*Improved value + 0.1mil (estimated)
--- Works out to be about $124 + 1.1 mil or about 0.5mil LESS than this year
--- For an exact dollar amount use the VPSD tax estimator
- Without the IFD: $124 + xxx mil
--- where xxx was 1.33 last year, 1.65 this year, and likely to be more next year

So what concrete information do you have about next year if the IFD does not pass? What will my assessment be? What will the VPSD budget be? What will my fire protection cost be? What precise numbers can you provide for next year if the IFD fails? If concrete numbers aren't available for the case where the IFD fails then by your logic it is time to pass the IFD.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

What do we know & what don't we know:

Assessments:
- Change every year
- Went up significantly this year
- Don't know what will happen next year
- With the IFD: Don't know
- Without the IFD: Don't know

Property tax rate:
- 6.15mils last year
- 5.59 mils this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Will be decreased some amount due to VPSD being removed from budget
- Without the IFD: Don't know

VPSD budget request:
- $16M last year
- $17.6M this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved
- Without the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved

Fire protection cost per Village home:
- $124 + 1.33 mil last year
- $124 + 1.65 mil this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: $124 + 0.75*Improved value + 0.1mil (estimated)
--- Works out to be about $124 + 1.1 mil or about 0.5mil LESS than this year
--- For an exact dollar amount use the VPSD tax estimator
- Without the IFD: $124 + xxx mil
--- where xxx was 1.33 last year, 1.65 this year, and likely to be more next year

So what concrete information do you have about next year if the IFD does not pass? What will my assessment be? What will the VPSD budget be? What will my fire protection cost be? What precise numbers can you provide for next year if the IFD fails? If concrete numbers aren't available for the case where the IFD fails then by your logic it is time to pass the IFD.

You can explain it a hundred times but you cannot make them understand it. They believe the propaganda and have already made up their minds that they don't want it.

[Byte1]

I don't know about others on here, but I am not convinced and therefore plan to vote to remain "status quo" because right now we kind of know what to expect. No one can give us definitive answers (and I understand their inability) to the cost to us if we change. Until such a time as we get a better understanding, I will have to vote "NO"

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by Byte1

I don't know about others on here, but I am not convinced and therefore plan to vote to remain "status quo" because right now we kind of know what to expect. No one can give us definitive answers (and I understand their inability) to the cost to us if we change. Until such a time as we get a better understanding, I will have to vote "NO"

There is no "status quo" even if it gets defeated there is no guarantee the County won't raise the taxes. Where taxes are concerned there is no such thing as concrete numbers, they are always made out of sand.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by Byte1

I don't know about others on here, but I am not convinced and therefore plan to vote to remain "status quo" because right now we kind of know what to expect. No one can give us definitive answers (and I understand their inability) to the cost to us if we change. Until such a time as we get a better understanding, I will have to vote "NO"

For me as Bill14564 noted, the financial unknowns are no different from either side.

I have more confidence in The Villages establishing a quality, cost effective fire service for The Villages than Sumter County.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

There is no "status quo" even if it gets defeated there is no guarantee the County won't raise the taxes. Where taxes are concerned there is no such thing as concrete numbers, they are always made out of sand.

So, we are supposed to take someone else's assurance that having an independent FD will be better, based on faith? Maybe it will be better, and I am not suggesting otherwise. The point most folks are concerned about is the possibility of an unneeded additional cost. For some on here, money is not a concern but some of us are on a fixed income and have a tendency to examine things thoroughly. Interesting that this issue is being discussed this close to the election. I'll be pulling the proverbial "lever" next week for early voting and I am not going to make the choice to change with my lack of understanding of what the results might be. You can say, that's on me.

[Kenswing]

Most fire departments throughout the state use independent fire districts. We’re actually an outlier still being under the county. I figure if it works for the other 53 ifd’s it’ll work just fine for us too.

[Plinker]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

What do we know & what don't we know:

Assessments:
- Change every year
- Went up significantly this year
- Don't know what will happen next year
- With the IFD: Don't know
- Without the IFD: Don't know

Property tax rate:
- 6.15mils last year
- 5.59 mils this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Will be decreased some amount due to VPSD being removed from budget
- Without the IFD: Don't know

VPSD budget request:
- $16M last year
- $17.6M this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved
- Without the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved

Fire protection cost per Village home:
- $124 + 1.33 mil last year
- $124 + 1.65 mil this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: $124 + 0.75*Improved value + 0.1mil (estimated)
--- Works out to be about $124 + 1.1 mil or about 0.5mil LESS than this year
--- For an exact dollar amount use the VPSD tax estimator
- Without the IFD: $124 + xxx mil
--- where xxx was 1.33 last year, 1.65 this year, and likely to be more next year

So what concrete information do you have about next year if the IFD does not pass? What will my assessment be? What will the VPSD budget be? What will my fire protection cost be? What precise numbers can you provide for next year if the IFD fails? If concrete numbers aren't available for the case where the IFD fails then by your logic it is time to pass the IFD.

The variable of concern to me in your estimate is the 0.1 mil rate. Could this not also be increased to a 1.0 mil rate? That could represent a very substantial amount of money to many Villagers. Did I read the legislation incorrectly? Can
the rate be from 0.1 to 1.0? Potentially a big difference.

[dewilson58]

Saw a road sign: Vote No. No new fire district. No new taxes.




and think, some people believe the message.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Byte1

So, we are supposed to take someone else's assurance that having an independent FD will be better, based on faith? Maybe it will be better, and I am not suggesting otherwise. The point most folks are concerned about is the possibility of an unneeded additional cost. For some on here, money is not a concern but some of us are on a fixed income and have a tendency to examine things thoroughly. Interesting that this issue is being discussed this close to the election. I'll be pulling the proverbial "lever" next week for early voting and I am not going to make the choice to change with my lack of understanding of what the results might be. You can say, that's on me.

Like you, I was initially against this proposal. My concerns were that it could be used as an excuse for the county raise taxes through a backdoor method, and that I might very well end up paying substantially more than a person on the next block for the same service because of the milage rate tied to a home's assessment.

However, looking deeper and thinking about it, the services cost what they cost, and therefore the proposal should be cost neutral. Likewise, unless the county plays games, it should be revenue neutral as well. And the county can play games with the tax rate whenever they want anyway. As far as paying more than a neighbor for the same service, we already are---3/4 of the fire services cost comes out of the general revenue which is of course based on home assessment.

Given all that, I've reconsidered and will support the new IFD---since I'm pretty sure that a merger of the two fire depts would result in a decrease in service to TV, something worth avoiding.

[twoplanekid]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Most fire departments throughout the state use independent fire districts. We’re actually an outlier still being under the county. I figure if it works for the other 53 ifd’s it’ll work just fine for us too.

I can't locate any data to backup this claim. Do you have a source for this data?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

I can't locate any data to backup this claim. Do you have a source for this data?

I also have a problem believing there are only 53 fire departments in the state of Florida. I believe there are 67 counties

Actually, 5 seconds on google shows there are 1,956 fire depts in Florida

Fire Departments - Florida (Fire Stations & Marshals)

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

I can't locate any data to backup this claim. Do you have a source for this data?

Last paragraph.

Independent fire district bill passes | News | The Villages Daily Sun | thevillagesdailysun.com

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I also have a problem believing there are only 53 fire departments in the state of Florida. I believe there are 67 counties

Actually, 5 seconds on google shows there are 1,956 fire depts in Florida

Fire Departments - Florida (Fire Stations & Marshals)

Independent fire districts. Not departments.