[TeresaE]

[QUOTE=Gladys Turnip;2290704]My husband & I have noticed something when walking on multi-modal paths.

First off I'll mention that we always walk on the left side (ie, into traffic), and that our observation only applies if there are no carts coming from behind us (fyi, if there are carts coming from both directions at the same time, we simply step off the path onto the grass, ceding the right of way).

So, when there is a cart coming at us (and no other carts, bikes, or walkers anywhere around), our observation is this: When MEN are driving the oncoming cart, they pull way over to their left, giving us wide berth which provides us with a comfortable safety buffer. On the other hand, WOMEN do not do this and instead (inexplicably) generally hold to their current lane on the right side of the path.

Suffice to say we don't understand this phenomenon, and if anyone does, we'd love to hear the reasoning. But in any case, we walkers would like to thank those cart drivers who swing wide left when approaching walkers, and we'd like to ask more (all) of you to please do the same (when you can). Thank you.[/QUOT

Be the

Whether walking, biking or driving a golf cart on a MMP, you should slow down, make eye contact and wave. After all we have the dubious honor of living in America’s Most Friendliness Town. Let’s start acting like it.

[Michael 61]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

As a retired auto insurance claims a manager, you would know that it's not a "right-a-way." It's a right of way.

But most insurance adjusters will pay out damages when a vehicle hits a pedestrian - .liability can be “comparative” - just because you have “right-of-way” doesnt mean you are not required to take evasive action to avoid an accident, if able to do so - failure to avoid an accident that is within your control to do so (like refusing to yield to someone in your path), will also place some liability on you. Court cases are filled with examples of this.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Regulations are just that, they are easily changed, especially when there is a need to do so. But I am not advocating that we take all golf carts off the MPPs or all the pedestrians. I am indicating what I see as a problem with the design. In the future, they are already adding walking trails to avoid these type of problems.

I agree, the design is flawed. But that's the design we have, presently. While we can advocate for a change in design (and some of us already are doing that), we still have to accept what IS, until and unless it changes.

Right now, the MMPs are considered wide private paved pathways in which golf carts are permitted to travel, sharing the path with pedestrians and cyclists. They're not considered roads, private nor public, and the regulation of the district government that oversees these MMPs have stated in writing that these MMPs do not allow vehicles. Therefore - according to the body of government that oversees these MMPs, golf carts are not included in the category of "vehicles." The laws of automobiles and motorcycles don't apply on MMPs, because neither of those types of mechanical transportation devices aren't allowed on MMPs. MMPs are their own thing, with their own rules, and their own lack of rules, with their own version of enforcement or lack thereof.

It's no different from dirt bike trails up in the mountains where I came from. The trails are somewhat regulated. Dirt bikes are allowed. X/C skiing and snowshoes are allowed. Pedestrians are allowed. But ATVs are not, nor motorcycles, scooters, mopeds, snowboards, downhill skis, horses, cars or trucks. They're called dirt bike trails. They're not roads, and the laws of roads don't apply. The biggest most significant difference, other than dirt bike trails aren't paved, is that pedestrians absolutely do NOT have the right of way on them, at all. Dirt bikes have the primary right of way, and only have to yield to emergency vehicles. Pedestrians walk those trails at their own risk.

[SusanStCatherine]

Yikes! Be safe out there everyone! Be alert and defensive as possible! Once while walking on a wide open path, I was cut off by a runner and had to stop abruptly - all kinds of people out there.

[BBBnWitty]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I’d probably either expect the walkers to move, since they are more vulnerable, or I come to a dead stop and see what the walker and sometimes their dog, is going to do.

I stop to let walking groups pass if I can't see a clear path for a long distance beyond them. I give single walkers plenty of space when it's safe to pass them. For dog walkers who use their dogs as a buffer, shame on you! I always say "good luck!" to those unfortunate pups and to any walker foolish or arrogant enough to not try to be careful by moving to the side when carts, electric bicycles, skateboarders, speed skaters, etc. approach. I wish all my fellow Villagers and guests good health. Please act cautious and stay safe.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by MX rider

I've been running for over 40 years and I NEVER run with traffic, that would be foolish. That includes the mmp. A golf cart is a motorized vehicle that can injure or kill you just like a car!

Common sense should prevail here.

"Common sense" In a previous life I did a fair amount of traffic accident investigations, I was always amazed when someone hit something or someone would insist they were doing the speed limit but couldn't stop because the road was wet or covered with snow and ice, apparently oblivious that they were telling they were going too fast for conditions

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Michael 61

But most insurance adjusters will pay out damages when a vehicle hits a pedestrian - .liability can be “comparative” - just because you have “right-of-way” doesnt mean you are not required to take evasive action to avoid an accident, if able to do so - failure to avoid an accident that is within your control to do so (like refusing to yield to someone in your path), will also place some liability on you. Court cases are filled with examples of this.

So, you're saying four pedestrian pals all walking abreast in the middle of an MMP, can continue to walk at 2-3 MPH, and golf carts that CANNOT pass them on either side since they're occupying both sides - have to just tough it out?

Or - is the responsibility the pedestrians to move over to the side of the road?

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by MX rider

The more you comment the deeper the hole you're in. Put down the shovel and stop digging!

As a long time runner, I run the mmp near Mallory CC often. 95% of cart drivers are courteous and give me room, but once in a while they don't. Usually entitled drivers like yourself.

I've been driving for 50 years and pedestrians have always had the right of way! It's just common sense. We learned that in drivers ed. Btw, if your parents taught you to not move over, they taught you wrong.

Be careful you are running and biking that poster lives in general area. Although we all know more than one exist, rarely will you see omissions in print

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

So, you're saying four pedestrian pals all walking abreast in the middle of an MMP, can continue to walk at 2-3 MPH, and golf carts that CANNOT pass them on either side since they're occupying both sides - have to just tough it out?

Or - is the responsibility the pedestrians to move over to the side of the road?

What do you propose as an alternative? Instead of just toughing it out, can the golf cart simply plow through because the pedestrian is not following the rules? Is there a third choice?

[defrey12]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Walkers should yield. Period. What is so difficult about that? Smart walkers know they will not be the victor when confronted with a vehicle, be it a golf cart or an automobile.

So, “kindness” is word with which you are not familiar. You are also not familiar with the basic vehicle/pedestrian laws: pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way! YIELD to them! (Sec 316.212(8)(e) of FL code covers it…for our purposes, a MMP IS a sidewalk!)

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

What do you propose as an alternative? Instead of just toughing it out, can the golf cart simply plow through because the pedestrian is not following the rules? Is there a third choice?

Yes, I have (hubby installed) a very loud air horn on the golf cart. And I would “politely” use it to let the people know I would like to pass.

[MX rider]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I agree, the design is flawed. But that's the design we have, presently. While we can advocate for a change in design (and some of us already are doing that), we still have to accept what IS, until and unless it changes.

Right now, the MMPs are considered wide private paved pathways in which golf carts are permitted to travel, sharing the path with pedestrians and cyclists. They're not considered roads, private nor public, and the regulation of the district government that oversees these MMPs have stated in writing that these MMPs do not allow vehicles. Therefore - according to the body of government that oversees these MMPs, golf carts are not included in the category of "vehicles." The laws of automobiles and motorcycles don't apply on MMPs, because neither of those types of mechanical transportation devices aren't allowed on MMPs. MMPs are their own thing, with their own rules, and their own lack of rules, with their own version of enforcement or lack thereof.

It's no different from dirt bike trails up in the mountains where I came from. The trails are somewhat regulated. Dirt bikes are allowed. X/C skiing and snowshoes are allowed. Pedestrians are allowed. But ATVs are not, nor motorcycles, scooters, mopeds, snowboards, downhill skis, horses, cars or trucks. They're called dirt bike trails. They're not roads, and the laws of roads don't apply. The biggest most significant difference, other than dirt bike trails aren't paved, is that pedestrians absolutely do NOT have the right of way on them, at all. Dirt bikes have the primary right of way, and only have to yield to emergency vehicles. Pedestrians walk those trails at their own risk.

Your dirt bike trail analogy doesn't work at all here.
I still mtb, ride motocross and ride trails. I also have SxS back in Indiana.

The mmp are a different animal completely. Hence the name, mmp.
Bottom line, a golf cart is a motorized vehicle that can easily kill a pedestrian.

We're really over analizyng this, it's not that hard. It just makes sense to follow common rules of the road on the mmp. Then we can all enjoy using them.

[MollyJo]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Yup......I'm a woman and will always stay in my lane. I never swing wide on any road unless I'm about to hit an obstacle. Walkers should be the ones who yield to any moving vehicle.

I also never go over the center line when driving an automobile. That is dangerous. I will never understand why drivers move to the left of the center line when a golf cart is coming up on their right in the MMP. There is room for both of you unless you are driving a huge truck with a wide load.

It’s not only courteous (put yourself in their place), but a lawsuit will shorten your life & your pockets…right fighting, No

[MollyJo]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

So, you're saying four pedestrian pals all walking abreast in the middle of an MMP, can continue to walk at 2-3 MPH, and golf carts that CANNOT pass them on either side since they're occupying both sides - have to just tough it out?

Or - is the responsibility the pedestrians to move over to the side of the road?

Hopefully no walking group would act so clueless, but if one did, you could simply stop your cart & they are forced to walk around you. Sometimes silence speaks volumes…

[sowilts]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I make sure there is at least three feet of separation between my vehicle and anything I encounter in my lane. Pass a bicycle - at least 3 feet. Pass a car - use another lane. Pass a stopped delivery truck - at least 3 feet. Encounter a pedestrian - at least 3 feet. This is required by law for bicycles (316.083(2) & (3)) and is just a good way to stay safe for everything else.

Usually, this means I will need to cross the center line at least part way. If that is not safe (poor visibility, oncoming vehicles) then it is simple: just wait. The law explicitly allows this in non-passing zones when avoiding obstructions (316.0875(3)(a)) and passing a bicycle (316.0875(3)(c)).

I use the same practices when avoiding pedestrians, bicycles, and other obstructions when driving a golf cart.

Excellent advice, I follow the same procedure.