[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

When I'm walking on an MMP (which isn't a road, it's an MMP, that's why it's not called an MMR) - I usually walk -with- traffic, not against it. I stay to the far right edge and if I hear the sound of bicycle gears or the whoosh of an EV or the rumble of a motor coming closer I notice first - is there room for them to pass me safely? If so, I just continue as I was. If not, I move off the pavement. If there's a curb, I'll walk on the curb. If it's grass, I'll walk on the grass.

Maybe some day when my hearing aids stop being good enough to let me hear what's coming up behind me, I'll get one of those little tiny mirrors you can attach to your eyeglasses. And then I'll be able to see them coming. For now I'm good to go, because I have something called "situational awareness" which apparently a lot of old people no longer possess - or possibly never had.

MMP is private road. So in your mind there are no rules of road/MMP.

Road: wide way leading from one place to another, especially one with a specially prepared surface which vehicles can use.

Vehicle: thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, truck, or cart.
"the vehicle was sent skidding across the road"

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

MMP is private road. So in your mind there are no rules of road/MMP.

Road: wide way leading from one place to another, especially one with a specially prepared surface which vehicles can use.

Vehicle: thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, truck, or cart.
"the vehicle was sent skidding across the road"

It's not a road. It's a path, designated for use by golf carts, pedestrians, bicycles, roller skates, and I believe also segways but I'm not sure on those.

You really need to check stuff out first. From The VCDD:

Multi-modal paths are intended for the enjoyment
of non-automotive traffic such as bicycles, golf cars
and pedestrians. Vehicles are not permitted on any of
the multi-modal paths in The Villages, which includes
automobiles, smart cars, motorcycles or mopeds.

https://www.districtgov.org/PdfUploa...5x8.5_0123.pdf

Notice that bolded underlined word "Vehicles." Vehicles are not allowed on MMPs. Golf carts are not considered vehicles, just like skateboards aren't considered vehicles. I'm not talking about the dictionary definition. I'm talking about the meaning as defined by local law and regulation.

[tovliteuser]

I find it interesting that coffeebean will "of course move over" and give space tor MMP pedestrians that are facing away from her (and don't see her coming) but will not give the same common courtesy to those that are facing traffic. Those walkers "had better hop onto the grass and out of my way".

This person has no business driving on any MMP (or road for that matter). I predict her callous attitude will eventually lead to a very serious encounter/accident. I just hope I'm not the unfortunate soul who ends up getting her off the MMPs permanently.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by tovliteuser

I find it interesting that coffeebean will "of course move over" and give space tor MMP pedestrians that are facing away from her (and don't see her coming) but will not give the same common courtesy to those that are facing traffic. Those walkers "had better hop onto the grass and out of my way".

This person has no business driving on any MMP (or road for that matter). I predict her callous attitude will eventually lead to a very serious encounter/accident. I just hope I'm not the unfortunate soul who ends up getting her off the MMPs permanently.

The whole reason pedestrians face traffic, is so THEY can move out of the way of oncoming traffic, if needed. If they didn't have to worry about that, then they'd just walk WITH traffic instead of facing traffic. That's the point.

If you want to REALLY say "I have the right of way, I can walk however I please, all those vehicles are required to move out of my way" then walk with the flow instead of against it.

I do that on the MMPs because I'm sharing the path with my fellow non-vehicles and pay attention to my surroundings, and feel comfortable in my decision. On streets, I walk facing traffic because 1 - it's smart, and 2 - it's the law.

An MMP is really just a widened glorified sidewalk. Pedestrians walk on the right of a sidewalk, not the left. So that's what I do on MMPs. But I also recognize that "right of way" doesn't matter AT ALL, because I'm at risk of injury no matter which side of the MMP I'm walking on, if a drunk golf cart driver is swerving around. It is MY responsibility, therefore, to make sure I am safe.

[Bogie Shooter]

This thread is almost as much to read as a roundabout thread.

[MrFlorida]

Wow, some real aggressive drivers here....

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It's not a road. It's a path, designated for use by golf carts, pedestrians, bicycles, roller skates, and I believe also segways but I'm not sure on those.

You really need to check stuff out first. From The VCDD:


https://www.districtgov.org/PdfUploa...5x8.5_0123.pdf

Notice that bolded underlined word "Vehicles." Vehicles are not allowed on MMPs. Golf carts are not considered vehicles, just like skateboards aren't considered vehicles. I'm not talking about the dictionary definition. I'm talking about the meaning as defined by local law and regulation.

I disagree with the definition of “vehicle” because here in TV most people use golf carts as transportation vehicles, even refer to them as GOLF CARS not just as something to get around in on a very large area such as a golf course. So it makes sense (in a way) that people who are used to sharing the MPP with golf carts while they are walking, try to do the same thing with diamond lanes which seem like golf cart lanes.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I disagree with the definition of “vehicle” because here in TV most people use golf carts as transportation vehicles, even refer to them as GOLF CARS not just as something to get around in on a very large area such as a golf course. So it makes sense (in a way) that people who are used to sharing the MPP with golf carts while they are walking, try to do the same thing with diamond lanes which seem like golf cart lanes.

It doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree with the definition of "vehicle." What matters is the wording in the regulation. Vehicles are not permitted on MMPs. Since golf carts ARE allowed on MMPs, that means - until and unless the VCDD changes its wording, golf carts are not in the same category as "vehicles."

[skiclub]

I'm a woman and I walk the MMP and I walk facing traffic.
As a pedestrian out walking on an MMP, I should not have to yield to an oncoming cart that refuses to give me a little room to safely walk on the path. I also drive a golf cart and guess what?
I swing wide to give a wide berth to those walkers. That is what some people call being courteous. It's not dangerous if there is no on-coming traffic. If there is traffic, I slow down to let the other carts go by so that the walkers are safe. A MMP path means just that, walkers have every right to be walking on the PATH.
Tell the judge after you hit someone that you did not want to yield to the pedestrian and see where that gets you. You are giving the term "self-entitlement" a whole new meaning.

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Yup......I'm a woman and will always stay in my lane. I never swing wide on any road unless I'm about to hit an obstacle. Walkers should be the ones who yield to any moving vehicle.

I also never go over the center line when driving an automobile. That is dangerous. I will never understand why drivers move to the left of the center line when a golf cart is coming up on their right in the MMP. There is room for both of you unless you are driving a huge truck with a wide load.

[Michael 61]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Maybe I should revisit what I said........if a walker is walking on the right side and NOT facing the traffic then, of course, they cannot see me approaching them. Then, I WILL swing wide to avoid hitting them However, when a walker is walking facing the traffic and can see me approaching, they had better hop onto the grass and out of my way. Having said that, there have been times when a walker, facing the traffic, will play chicken and I will always give way to the stupid ones. Remember walkers........you will NOT be the victor when confronting a vehicle that will certainly hurt or kill you. Get our of the way!!!!!!!!

As a retired auto insurance claims manager - let me just chime in and say anytime there is a vehicle vs pedestrian accident, it usually does not end well for the “vehicle” regardless of whether one thought they had right-a-way over the pedestrian or not. Courts and juries are way more sympathetic to pedestrians over vehicles. Even if you think the pedestrian is doing something crazy, just yield the right-a-way to them. I don’t understand people that always need to be “right” and will fight tooth-and-nail to prove their correctness - just let it go and be happy and move on!

[MX rider]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The whole reason pedestrians face traffic, is so THEY can move out of the way of oncoming traffic, if needed. If they didn't have to worry about that, then they'd just walk WITH traffic instead of facing traffic. That's the point.

If you want to REALLY say "I have the right of way, I can walk however I please, all those vehicles are required to move out of my way" then walk with the flow instead of against it.

I do that on the MMPs because I'm sharing the path with my fellow non-vehicles and pay attention to my surroundings, and feel comfortable in my decision. On streets, I walk facing traffic because 1 - it's smart, and 2 - it's the law.

An MMP is really just a widened glorified sidewalk. Pedestrians walk on the right of a sidewalk, not the left. So that's what I do on MMPs. But I also recognize that "right of way" doesn't matter AT ALL, because I'm at risk of injury no matter which side of the MMP I'm walking on, if a drunk golf cart driver is swerving around. It is MY responsibility, therefore, to make sure I am safe.

I've been running for over 40 years and I NEVER run with traffic, that would be foolish. That includes the mmp. A golf cart is a motorized vehicle that can injure or kill you just like a car!

Common sense should prevail here.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It's not a road. It's a path, designated for use by golf carts, pedestrians, bicycles, roller skates, and I believe also segways but I'm not sure on those.

You really need to check stuff out first. From The VCDD:


https://www.districtgov.org/PdfUploa...5x8.5_0123.pdf

Notice that bolded underlined word "Vehicles." Vehicles are not allowed on MMPs. Golf carts are not considered vehicles, just like skateboards aren't considered vehicles. I'm not talking about the dictionary definition. I'm talking about the meaning as defined by local law and regulation.

Interesting to argue the MMP is not a road and not subject to traffic laws but then take a definition of vehicle from the traffic laws. Do traffic laws apply or do they not apply?

Simple enough:
- The MMPs are not roads and are not subject to traffic laws
- Automobiles and motorcycles are not allowed on the MMP per the rules set up by the private entity that owns the MMPs
- Injuring someone is a crime; injuring someone due to negligence while operating a motorized vehicle is very likely going to lead to a court date.
- The rules of the road make sense and make the MMPs safer even if they are not enforceable on the MMP

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Michael 61

As a retired auto insurance claims a manager - let me just chime in and say anytime there is a vehicle vs pedestrian accident, it usually does not end well for the “vehicle” regardless of whether one thought they had right-a-way over the pedestrian or not. Courts and juries are way more sympathetic to pedestrians over vehicles. Even if you think the pedestrian is doing something crazy, just yield the right-a-way to them. I don’t understand people that always need to be “right” and will fight tooth-and-nail to prove their correctness - just let it go and be happy and move on!

As a retired auto insurance claims a manager, you would know that it's not a "right-a-way." It's a right of way.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree with the definition of "vehicle." What matters is the wording in the regulation. Vehicles are not permitted on MMPs. Since golf carts ARE allowed on MMPs, that means - until and unless the VCDD changes its wording, golf carts are not in the same category as "vehicles."

Regulations are just that, they are easily changed, especially when there is a need to do so. But I am not advocating that we take all golf carts off the MMPs or all the pedestrians. I am indicating what I see as a problem with the design. In the future, they are already adding walking trails to avoid these type of problems.

[MX rider]

Originally Posted by skiclub

I'm a woman and I walk the MMP and I walk facing traffic.
As a pedestrian out walking on an MMP, I should not have to yield to an oncoming cart that refuses to give me a little room to safely walk on the path. I also drive a golf cart and guess what?
I swing wide to give a wide berth to those walkers. That is what some people call being courteous. It's not dangerous if there is no on-coming traffic. If there is traffic, I slow down to let the other carts go by so that the walkers are safe. A MMP path means just that, walkers have every right to be walking on the PATH.
Tell the judge after you hit someone that you did not want to yield to the pedestrian and see where that gets you. You are giving the term "self-entitlement" a whole new meaning.

Very well said!
And as a runner and golf cart owner, I agree 100% and do the same as you.